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Hi JoAnn – I am once again calling on you for your opinion and expertise on the recovery of an SA.
My therapist, who has been conferring with Steve’s therapist, has told me there is a good chance Steve can beat this thing.
She tells me, that because he has a “trauma based” addiction, and by that I mean he does not plan out when he is going to have a trigger – boom! It just happens without any forethought. She compares this to SA’s who obsess, think about, and plan there next move for acting out. ie: Thinking about Porn, getting a high, and then carry out the action by going to a site. Steve is no longer engaging in Porn – since last August. He just has moments when he will look at a women, and it just happens. He has no warning. Usually, they are usually women of no significance. An older woman – in otherwords not the type he would have triggered on in the past. (Blond and young).
His therapist feels with EMDR therapy and dealing with his PTSD, he has a much better chance for recovery than those who plan there acting out. He is not saying it will not take some time, as they are just beginning the EMDR therapy.
I know you are not an advocate for EMDR, other than for PTSD, as far as recovery for the SA, but I am interested in knowing more about the two different types of an SA. The one who plans his moves compared to one that just has a spontaneous trigger without forethought and without feeling sexual after the trigger, or carry thoughts about it after the fact.
Really would appreciate your’e input, as I have never heard of two types of SA’s.
Love and hugs to you – hope you are doing well.Sharron, why do you torture yourself by trying to analyze Steve to death, hoping for some obscure shred of evidence that he is somehow different?
As far as I know, and as far as the minimal research that has been done with Sex Addiction is concerned, there is no evidence of this ‘two types of Sex Addicts’ theory.
And, all Sex Addiction is trauma based.
Triggers mean exactly that–they happen spontaneously. No one has any warning. Steve has triggers just like any other Sex Addict and, when he does go on the computer he plans it just like any other Sex Addict.
As I have stated before, any therapist who makes predictions about recovery is violating their professional standards of practice.
Why not take my ‘broken record’ often repeated advice. Decide whether to stay or go based on what YOU can or cannot live with, not on what Steve may or may not do, as you will never be able to control him or his thoughts.
Can YOU live with the doubt, the lack of trust and the insecurity of not knowing what he may be obsessing about? Because that will always be a part of your life if you stay with a Sex Addict even if they quit acting out.
Hi Sharron,
I love you sooo much and I agree with everything JoAnn said. You are using Steve as your measuring stick? Why? You have a heart, brain, soul, and a lot of character, you decide what is best for you. I personally think if you stay together you’ll drive each other nuts. This is just my opinion, divorce, and then date and have fun *** and live your own life. The best of both worlds. He’d probably like that too. Love you, napxxooOh dear,
I’m sorry but this feels a little like the cycle we’ve experienced already in your life, Sharron. I think it’s called a codependency, but check with your therapist. I know you don’t really want the torture of that again, but I fear you are moving into it as you clutch at these meagre scraps and try to make a quilt out of them to make you feel better about hanging on to him. As a quilter, I just don’t think there’s enough fabric.Hi JoAnn – Thanks for the reply. I, too, have not heard of two types of sex addicts. And again, you are entirely right as far as to what to expect down the road.
My therapist didn’t actually come out and say he would be cured – maybe I didn’t communicate that effectively. What she did say was, “I really think he has a good chance to beat it based on the type of addiction.” She has indicated, in the past, that once an addict always an addict-they just learn to manage they’re addiction. She was passing on what Steve’s therapist said to her. She added it might take a year or two of EMDR. I think she was trying to say that SA’s who plan when they are going to act out, and ones that have spontaneous triggers respond to therapy differently, and the one’s with the spontaneous triggers have a better outcome. The ritual and intensity of planning ahead of time to act out seems to me to be different. Steve says when he was doing the porn, he did plan ahead, but the looking and/or objectification of women just happens without forethought.
I did tell my therapist all Sex Addiction is trauma based. I agree with you, so never fully understand what she was getting at.
As far as what I can live with or without. It is the thoughts that go through his head that bug me the most. My plan right now is to ride it out and see where the therapy leads him.
How have you been able to cope with the doubt, lack of trust and insecurity of not knowing what Larry might be obsessing about? Not trying to be a smart ass – just wondering how you got there. I think that would be my last hurdle to overcome.
HugsAgain you are splitting hairs with this spontaneous trigger stuff. Triggers ARE spontaneous. There is no other kind. SA’s learn to manage how they react to their triggers, but they will probably never be free of them.
As for your ‘last hurdle’, it’s not a hurdle to overcome, it’s just a way of life. I get the impression that you are looking for absolutes when there are none.
I do not even think about what Larry is thinking or doing. I did not mean that anyone who stays with a SA will have to live with constant doubt and insecurity–what I meant was that you will have to face the reality of their addiction and learn to live with NOT KNOWING.
You have to state your boundaries and let go of the outcome. That is the only way anyone can have any peace of mind. But, you cannot reach that state unless and until you have the confidence that your partner is sober and very serious about his recovery. I don’t think you have that with Steve. If you did you would not be in such turmoil.
It is unhealthy to obsess over someone else’s every thought and motive. We cannot and should not try to control what someone else does, and personally, I have too many other wonderful things to take up my time than to worry about what Larry is doing.
I have learned to trust myself, trust my intuition and know that I have made very clear boundaries which, in light of my past behavior, Larry knows that I am more than capable of enforcing. If he wants this good life with me then he knows what he must do. But, it is his choice as to whether he does it or not.
As long as you take care of yourself, set boundaries for how others treat you and have a clear picture of what the consequences will be if anyone violates your boundaries, and, most of all, trust in yourself–then everything else will fall into place.
Sharron, really, listen to JoAnn. I may be new to the “living with your SA” scenario, but what she says speaks volumes.
I have my boundaries and he has accepted them. The last episode where he broke the boundaries and I told him he must leave, because that was the consequence to the written boundary, he realized that I’m not going to tolerate that behavior. He didn’t want to leave and it was difficult for me to ask him to leave, but I have to abide by the boundaries too. So he left, he didn’t like it, and it made life difficult for me, but it definitely helped him to realize that if he wants to live with me, this is the way it has to be. Will he slip and have another episode? Probably, but now I know that I will stand my ground and the next time I will make him stay gone longer. He’ll figure it out and if he doesn’t, then we will seperate.
The therapists all say that actions speak louder than words when it comes to a sex addict. If he is serious, you will notice by his actions. I think the same goes with partners. He saw me stand firm to my boundaries and consequences by making him leave. He saw that my actions can speak louder than my words.
I may never fully trust him again, but that’s something I’ll have to deal with knowing this was the choice I made. I do not hound him everyday about where he’s been, what he’s been doing, or even what kind of thought’s he’s had. He now comes to me and tells me himself if he has been struggling. Then we discuss it calmly and sometimes I’ll make the suggestion that he make note of it and discuss it with his therapist. In the early days he wouldn’t tell me what he discussed at the therapist’s office, but now he tells me as soon as he gets home from the appt. Things can move in the right direction if you try to live a normal life and not make SA the subject of everyday living. Talk about it when the need arises, otherwise go on about your business.
You’ll see him make progress if he’s serious. And when he does, be sure to tell him that you’ve noticed and that you find it encouraging. Sometimes it’s the soft spoken words of recognition that get the best results.
I wish you the best. Settle down and try to concentrate on your life.
(((HUGS)))
Thanks JoAnn- that clears the spontaneous trigger stuff up. It gets confusing when you hear other opinions from therapist’s, but I totally trust you expertise and advice – you have not steared me wrong yet, and I have never disagreed with you.
I don’t feel in turmoil like I used to – only on rare occassions-just looking for answers when something comes up. We are seeing counselor’s who confer with eachother, and my gal seems to be more realistic than his in terms of once an addict always an addict.
I do have the confidence Steve is finally serious about recovery, but he is not entirely sober. Still stuggles with some of the looking around, but much less so than he used to. Seems to have the ability to focus more now, and when he has a slip usually will immediately look away.
I have basically decided that I am now happy with him 80% of the time, but am aware of possible relapses down the road. I am going with the fact that if he does relapse – I will just move to another part of the house. We are looking at a house in the country on 9 acres. It has a small, what they call a little cabin with a little wood-burning stove. Steve laughs and says it has all the comforts of home for me should I not be able to tolerate him. I told him he is the one that will be living in the little cabin – HA! Of course it is his money buying the house, so don’t know how I would accomplish that!!
He and I both feel RN has done more for his recovery than any other method. Was not wild about SA or Celebrate Recovery Groups, and is really glad he has changed therapists. He feels he is really doing him some good and is a Licensed Sex Addiction Therapist with 15 yrs. in the field. Remember Terri, she was a total waste.
I do have hope now – hope that he will learn to manage his addiction and we can have a happy life.
I appreciate your’e quick responses. Always good to hear from you.
Love to you.All i have to say is …Are you keeping your condo??
It would be a nice safety net to have. Rent it out or is it an apt?
I regret selling me condo when I met my SA and buying the house. It would have been nice to have that security and a home to move to. Granted thankfully everything so far is turning out okay, but I really wish I would have kept my own place. When we beome enmeshed in so many ways, it becomes very had to break free of them again.Wow, did something get triggered in me. When you said that you were looking at property out in the country, something in my stomach immediately turned over.
For me, when we moved from state to state, my EX SA would always look at property that was more isolated. We didn’t live in subdivision, he seemed to want to find property that was more out-of-the-way. 2 things, he did not want (him/me) to develop friendships with neighbors and he especally did not want me in town where we would be by people who worked for the same mill he did. This way if he said he was at work, and I associated with those people, there was a good chance that he would eventually be found out.
He used his work as the excuse of why he wasn’t home on time. I had to answer the page and go in (yeah, to his male sex partners) or we have a shutdown this week and I have to stay there the whole time the vendors are on the property.
I think isolation is one tool they use so we don’t catch on to what they are doing. Strange that I was triggered so fast, the minute I read that – never know what is going to trigger something. It may have absolutely nothing to do with anyone else’s situation. Just needed to respond to that little jump in the stomach.
Yes! It’s called trusting your gut. Sex Addicts are good at manipulating us into thinking that our doubts or fears mean the WE are crazy. Over the years many women are conditioned not to listen to those intuitive feelings that always have a base.
Thank you jeannette–we all need to remember to trust ourselves.
Maybe gut us it. i was fine with everything else until read that statement of looking at a place together. Panic for me and i’m not sharron. My gut says whoa nellie.
Hi Sharron,
I think the fact that you posted this question means you are having doubts at some level. My opinion, I wouldn’t move right now. Too risky…its only been about 3 wks ago you were telling us he wasn’t doing his RN. I care about you Sharron, please be careful.Yes, I get confused with Sharron’s posts too. Wasn’t it just this week that she said she was putting a GPS on Steve’s car to ‘finally’ get an answer? Then, before she got any closure on that she suddenly said she was not going to get a divorce, but a legal separation.
I’m not sure what her purpose is in that, as usually a legal separation is done to protect finances. I think at one time she said she was going to do it to prove something to Steve.
I guess I need some sister input on all of this as I can’t seem to put all the pieces together.
Flora – Yes, I am keeping my condo – not totally insane.
Jeannette- I have always wanted to live in the country, and so has Steve. It is not a control issue with him. He has never tried to isolate me from friends/family. Sorry that was a trigger for you.
NAP & Flora – It will be at least six months to a year down the road. Steve would have to sell his house and time it so we can move when we find the house we want. NAP – I question when I hear something contrary to what we all believe to be true. JoAnn and the rest of us know the reality of the situation, and I think Steve’s counselor truely believes EMDR is the cure-all. My therapist is into that as well, but I don’t have that confidence.
JoAnn – I never said I trusted him yet, I am just saying I have seen enough change in him to cancel the divorce. I can always re-file in a moment’s notice. Still haven’t decided if it should be a Legal Separation for financial purposes. Still thinking along those lines as it will probably be a year before we could move forward in terms of living together. I have no plans on moving back in with him, which I could do tomorrow if I want to. I will be living in my Condo during this transition. Steve is intending to move to the country whether I go or not, so he still has somewhat of a repreive while we look for a house, and he can sell his. The way the market is today, I wouldn’t bet on a quick buy and sell.
You are right – The GPS system is on his car as we speak. I am going out of town with my sister tomorrow. This is the first time he has really had an opportunity to cut loose if he wants to. So-o-o-o back to the trust issue. Why shouldn’t I savor this opportunity to do a check? Nothing hurt in being aware. I trust him more than I ever have, but I’m not stupid either – and all of this could be manipulative behavior to get me back, and I am not prepared to take that chance.
JUST BEING SMART.Sharron,
I wish you all the best in life. If I had to put a GPS tracker on a mans car to see if he’s trustworthy….I would really question the relationship, sounds like too much work and just reading about it makes me feel stressed. I love you Sharron, but from the outside looking in, it seems like the old patterns are repeating themselves…..love ya, napxxooSharron, I agree with NAP. I was thinking the same thing about the GPS–feeling stressed reading that post. I do understand it–I have struggled with searching, tracking, obsessing. One thing that I have found helpful is to ask myself, “if you find something out, what are you going to do about it?” You really need to have a clear-cut plan, or you are just adding to your own stress and anxiety. I do feel worried that I haven’t known you as long as some of the other ladies, and I’ve seen you, in a few short months, going back and forth from divorce, to not divorce. I feel like Steve has you on a leash, and you are being dragged around while he wanders to and fro. If you can, try to step back and see the big picture. One thing that might help is just going back and reading all of your posts and responses from the very beginning. One nice thing about this website is that it’s almost like a little journal for each of us (assuming old posts don’t get deleted?), showing where we are in our journey. I wish the best for you–you deserve a rich life, as do all of us!! Hugs and love, ZG
Hi All,
Was thinking again this morning, i do that sometimes.
Sharron I think you ask us questions, all kinds of questions, to try to get help or advice. I think you keep it real and i think not eveyone here shares everyday struggles of living with a sex addict.I also think that Sharron is still in her new phase of her relationship with steve, that young love (i know you are older sharron, but your relationship with steve is not, its young). Come to think of it at that state (8 yrs ago) i was just as confused as you Sharron, way back when. But I charged ahead anyway, and made some stupid mistakes, i married him, sold my condo, moved in together, had a baby…..all based on what i felt was love. I ignored that little nagging doubt, that you have as well, and masked it over with he loves me and we have a great relationship together.
Often times when couples are in trouble or feel trouble may be on the horizon, they charge ahead anyway, hoping that one day things will just get better. I do not know any stats on this, but i bet more often that not, they do not get better. But it is very common to move on anyway, as if nothing has happened. Making changes like getting a house and moving, also keeps the focus off the issues.
One day when things settle down and things stop being new and this new whirlwind love romance has passed, you will then see it for what it was. Because right now its hard to see.
It just may be that steve will get it right, but it is just as likely that he won;t. It may be that you just worry and obsess, but it also just may be that your worries and your obsession were spot on (See busybees post on the letter she wrote to her h, she was spot on).
I cringe. Because I was there 8 years ago, and i remember it well. Now that that romance and new found love has worn off…i see all the mistakes I made. sometimes people just have to make the mistake and they learn. Who knows who is right, whether its the theapist, sharrons gut, Steve, us….who knows. We say these things because many of us have lived them. I remember back 8 years ago and remember how magical in love it felt; but that faded. And what you see today me posting on here is what I am left with. So at the start it was just so magical and close and love; but i had doubts. I skimmed over those doubts because of “love”. But in new love its hard to see any real problems that may exist.
So sharron, sorry we may be harsh. But we are all in older love phase, that new love ship sailed along time ago ( i think new love (or lust) lasts about 2-3 yrs+/- based on my experiance). And we are able to see things without all the emotions that you are tied up in sometimes. But who knows, no one really knows what will happen in your relationship with steve.
Just keep one foot out the door on solid ground, keep your condo, and always plan for what bad may happen. I think that is the best that you can do, while you figure out what is the best to do for you.
Love, Flora
Flora, you make a good point. The perspective coming from a long-term marriage (in my case, 20 years) is so different from that of a young marriage/relationship. Glad you had your thinking cap on this morning! 🙂
Love, ZGBoy Flora what a great post and perspective, you are so helpful and openly supportive. Thanks for being you, you’re so special and a gem! Sharron sorry if I seem harsh, Ive was married 25 yrs, def not in the new love phase.
Great post Flora,
I think it was good for all of us to hear that perspective, not just our sister Sharron.It IS really really hard for some of us to cut bait and move on with our own lives. But I also find the tangle of thinking here around Steve very difficult to engage. JoAnn tries to sort it out every now and then for us, but essentially I think your problem Sharron is that you are a very strong thinker but this one is out of control in your head. What comes out sounds like it is “something new”, but it’s just the same old thing that most of us have gone through. Do you think you stop trying to “think” your way through this? Because I don’t think it is working.
Instead, get in touch with what is behind your need to hang on. What is really going here? What are the feelings that rise to the surface when you think of ending it with Steve? What are the feelings that rise to the surface when you think of keeping on trying with Steve? One set of feelings is driving you right now. What are they, and why?
NO quick answers, please. Take some time and feel through the two questions.
Just trying to find another way in that doesn’t create such confusion.
D.
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