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Hi sisters,
Today was quite sad to me, though my husband has been more humble and very attentive to me lately.
I was discussing his past a bit today and things were going along quite well. We were talking about an early childhood experience where he was strongly encouraged by an older friend to reveal his penis to a neighborhood girl, and for her to reveal herself to him. He was nine years old and remembers being erect and embarrassed, but did not really understand what erections were all about. Anyway, I mentioned a few minutes later something about young girls and asked if he was ever (sexually) interested in them (as an adult). He clarified, “You mean young girls?” and I said, “Yes.” He paused, which shocked me…and then replied that he had never looked online for them.
WOW, that blew me away…the pause was amazingly sad to me…and the answer was very limited. A long time ago, when I asked if ever watched men have anal sex on the computer, he instantly replied, “No way!” But with this situation, he was much slower in responding, and only mentioned that he did not look ONLINE at this girls. He did not quickly say, “No way, are you kidding?”
I said no more…want to be careful. I may have misinterpreted the pause and the online comment, but I don’t really think so.
2 1/2 years ago, he put me through so many disclosures to finally get it all out…lie truth lie truth…over two weeks and then one more part months later. He told me he has confessed EVERYTHING…well, if he had been aroused by looking at or fantasizing about young girls, then he has not been totally honest. I need to be so careful. Any suggestions?
B. Trayed
I’m sorry B… This really sucks. But, I think you’ve answered your own question and unfortunately, I agree with you. I do not think that you are imagining things. Our guts don’t lie.
As to what to do about it. I’m afraid that if he doesn’t want you to know, that there’s nothing you can do. If you try to force it out of him, it will most likely blow up in your face, I’m afraid. Just my experience. If he’s looking at little girls (in print, or in person… or in a film house), its obvious why he wouldn’t want you to know.
Maybe someone else has a better suggestion.
hugs and love,
Lexie
B, none of us can really know what that pause implied. Lexie is correct that your gut stirred for a reason. One thing to consider though is that if he is a narcissist as my h is, he may have had a stronger knee-jerk reaction to the implications of an attraction to same-sex situations. When you posed this particular question about young girls, he may just have had to stop and sort out the definition of ‘young’??
Hi B.,
Lylo is right, no one knows what the pause means and to read something into, continue to wonder is just going to torture yourself.
Here is the thing…sex addiction escalates if left untreated and these men end up in places where they otherwise wouldn’t, either on line or thoughts in their head or in real life, or sometimes all of the above. The addiction changes their arousal template, because they are always looking for the next high when they are actively addicted. Some men end up being interested in younger and younger women and looking at girls, and they are not pedophiles…it’s a product of the addiction. Some men end up being interested in other men, and they are not homosexual, it’s a product of the addiction. If your husband looked at porn, young girl stuff pops up sometimes even when they search for other things and they see that. It sounds to me that he might have been telling you that he has seen some of that stuff, but it’s not his arousal
template.
Even for the addicts that end up there as an arousal template, the good news is that it can change back to the way it used to be prior to the addiction/escalation with sobriety andrecovery.
Don’t torture yourself, B. If you need to know, you can always ask for a lie detector test. For what it’s worth, it
sounds to me like he told you a partial truth….. he probably did see stuff, he may have found it interesting, but it’s not his arousal template. The important thing is what is happening now with his recovery. I would want to know if he is attracted to young girls now. Maybe you could ask him what the pause meant? Maybe you could clarify with him what “young” means? Prepubescent? Pubescent, but under 18? Any girl younger that the age of your own children? You say he is sober, part of recovery is honest conversation, lack of lying and deception, and transparency….maybe see what he says and how you feel about what he says….and get that lie detector test if you aren’t comfortable with the attitude or the answers and you need to know more.
MarieNarcissist, definitely, but this is how I came up with my conclusions. In addition to the pause which I agree is not evidence by itself, he did say that he had never looked ONLINE for them. That was the part of this scenario that switched my radar on. This reminds me of ousted Congressman (dick) Weiner saying.
“I can’t say with certitude” that the photos are NOT him. nice try, but no go.
If B’s husband had said that he has absolutely no interest in little girls, that might be different. She did not ask specifically, if he was looking at internet porn. That was him making that qualification and I’m afraid the pause is his guilty brain scrambling for a plausible answer to a question he does not want to answer and also wasn’t expecting.
My truth that I’ve learned from all of this is that once a man has lied to me, that’s it. I will never ever trust him again.
not completely.
But, again, for B… She was the one who was there and saw his body language and his eyes and knows her husband better than anyone, of course. But again, this illness can cause us to lose our good judgment and I think that B was looking for corroboration for what her gut was telling her.
Hi B,
Firstly if he was doing illegal activities, he is smart enough to not tell you (jail time). However you crack the nut, addiction or not, i personally do not ever feel there is an excuse for this behavior. This is not a situation where he will honestly tell you, as with anywomen or mother of children, i would be horrified….and yes he would be signing on the dotted line.I have no idea what this means, the pause no pause. Is he normally quick with his answers? I have read a book on lying, often time a pause means you are thinking of your answer or retreiving the answer…quick answers come from within and are true….where a a pause indicates a retreival of info. But many time even on standard porn sites, child porn pop ups on most.
My h and i had this conversation. And he adimately said no child porn and not interested in children. But how do you know….underage teen girls…versus “18” hard to tell the difference i would assume would it not?
Here is the chilling facts. He would never tell you, its illegal. You can drag that computer into a computer tech and they can search it for porn and what types. This could put peace of mind. However he may be good at computers and can hide his tracks. Or if he is smart, once he was discovered, if he is smart he would stop those activities. Often times though, these guys fly under the radar for years. there have been so many cases where pedophiles get away with it. Wether or not he is or is not a pedophile/sex addict makes no difference to the abuse of the children who are being abused.
Only you now b-trayed. Only you can answer the question. Its tough no doubt about it.
Love, Flora
Hugs, b-trayed,
If there is one thing I have learned when I talk to my husband about his acting out, it’s to listen to my gut instincts. They have been correct more often then when they were wrong.
I think Marie brings up a very good point when she says that while he may have seen it, that doesn’t mean he was aroused by it.
Just be sure to keep that in mind while you’re thinking things through.
SS
Hi sisters,
I read and appreciate your responses. Can’t chat now; he is with me today…all day.
I will check back later hopefully.
B. TrayedI have absolutely NO TOLERANCE when it comes to children. It is an absolute with me. Abusing a child, even in the most subtle manner, harms them forever. Their innocence is lost and their life is forever changed. They will have issues with sex forever more.
Child porn may not seem like a direct harm to the child who is viewed, but there are two issues here. One is that the child porn industry, which does abuse these children in the very worst of ways, could not flourish without the men who look at these images. The second is that all Sex Addict behaviors escalate and the viewer may very well turn out to be an active child molester.
This is NOT uncommon. I get the stories from women all the time. I have known women whose husbands have abused children. It’s the one taboo that most wives will hide.
If your husband is sober, then exactly as Marie said, ‘part of recovery is honest conversation, lack of lying and deception, and transparency’.
This is a serious issue that you need honest answers for. If your husband does not have a counselor, and he refuses to go to 12 step meetings, then you really only have two choices.
1. Live with this doubt and let it eat away at you and bear the burden of partial responsibility if he abuses a child in the future.
2. Set a boundary that you need to know that he is telling you the truth by counseling with a Sex Addiction counselor and taking a lie detector test.
I know your pain b-trayed, but a man who may be sexually aroused by underage girls is a dangerous man. You are bearing all of his addiction on your shoulders while he feels no obligation to you. He feels no obligation to ease your mind by becoming totally honest and transparent.
This is abuse and cruelty at it’s worst.
Love and hugs to you, JoAnn
Thanks everyone.
I do need to probe further…I could have, but felt like I needed to stop the other day.
How would you go about asking further…with someone or alone? I am very fragile, but was able to keep it together the other day, when we discussed the young girls. (I could have totally misread him, but something did not seem right.)
Perhaps I should do it with a counselor, but he hasn’t developed a relationship with one, so he may not feel as comfortable as with me alone.B.
Hi B.t.,
I think thats a hard one and I can understand your doubt about how to handle/ask him. I think you should do what would be best for you and make you the most comfortable. My H never liked to discuss anything and when I gently persued an issue, he often became mad, had a temper tanrum, or went into a full blown rage. All distractions so he would not have to talk. How do you think your husband would respond B. t.?
love, NapWell sisters,
I do not fear my h has been with children, due to the fact that when he confessed all the details of his acting out, he said he never was with another person physically. He never flirted with women and was aroused and tempted to call sex hotlines, but never did. He was into compulsive masterbation to images, tv, computer, and fantasy…as far as I know.
My concern right now is determining if he was aroused by young girls or not. Did he frequently masterbate to fantasies about them? His hesitation made me wonder…and his incomplete response…’no online searching.’
I want to address this with him and do feel like he does not want to lie anymore…he lied again in May, but told me within 3 hours. He really felt like the reason he could not stop acting out for all those years, was because he hid it from me…since disclosure he has not acted out with masterbation or arousal to other women.
If he does reveal that he was interested in young girls, then this will negate his honesty in the past, since he was supposed to have disclosed EVERYTHING. That is a major area to forget. I do believe that he could be aroused by young girls and still have hope, but not if he hides it! He would need to come forward and get help. We would also have to protect young girls and not do things with them alone, like babysit future granddaughters. But I am getting ahead of myself. The first step is to pray that he is honest, set up the situation so he feels comfortable to talk, ask the necessary and direct questions, and then hope he reveals the truth. If he was aroused by young girls, this will be a hard pill to swallow…but then, as JoAnn mentioned, we can protect those people, so his previous fantasies never come true.
I don’t know when I will be doing it, but I think I will do it alone. I am afraid of the answer, but I need to be strong.
Thanks sisters.B. Trayed
So, I want to know why we have to care whether the SA is “comfortable” with our therapist or would prefer just to be talking to us.
B-trayed—your guy doesn’t go to meetings, right? He doesn’t have a therapist, right? He’s not actually working on anything, right? I think there’s nothing wrong with asking him to come with you to the therapist and put the question to him there, WHERE YOU ARE COMFORTABLE BECAUSE SOMEONE HAS YOUR INTERESTS AT HEART!!!!
If I remember correctly, you really don’t have any support from family or church on this struggle. So, why are you worrying about him? He’s got the whole support thing sewn up!!! YOu’re the one living every single day in a context that is inhospitable to your experience and your story! You’re the one who deserves the chance to feel “comfortable” when asking such a question.Talk to your therapist about it. And then get Mr. “not so quick to say no about the young girls” in your safe place.
Why are we always doing the hard part?
love and light to you, B-trayed
D.Hi Diane,
I agree with you. Why should we feel like we have to ‘tip toe’ around these guys. My EXSA h often made me feel the same. I think its a part of their avoidance and manipulations. They do it because we accept this dyfunctional behavior. I think you made really good points in your post.
love, NapThank you Diane and NAP,
Well, I thought he might open up more to me, if I tried to put him at ease. He may be tempted to minimize or conceal something if he things the counselor will shame him.
Also, I do not really have a set counselor right now. I don’t know where to go. The certified sex therapists nearby work out of a clinic run by Kenneth Adams. He travels with Patrick Carnes and teaches for him. I have heard him speak and he is marvelous (looks at sex addiction as a whole person problem with root issues and recovery involves a life change in every area!), but doesn’t really take the trauma view for partners though – only codependency. I don’t really know where to go. (He can do an assessment on h but he is too busy to counsel me.)
I called a grief counselor and made an appointment for next Wednesday, but she doesn’t really deal with sex addiction at all. I am tempted to just go to Adams’s clinic and get help there, but I just don’t know. It costs $135 per session there. (I did about 12 sessions with one of his colleagues before, with little improvement-Kenneth said I ended prematurely.)
Maybe I just need to get my husband assessed by Kenneth, who has an appt. open in August. (Because my h did not have physical affairs, I am nervous Kenneth will minimize my h’s problems with lust and compulsive masterbation – all around town).
Honestly ladies, I laid in my bed and wrote a good-bye note to my family the other day…kind of hoping God would just stop my heart of something – I don’t believe in committing suicide, so I guess it wasn’t my time to leave you all. I am so depressed. I can barely go out of my house with my h due to all the babes outside in the 100 degree weather, which invites more revealing clothing. They are so young, beautiful and sensual. Everything has turned sexual for me…since he was sexualizing so much.
I am lost and a mess. I am hopeless. I can’t even go to my niece’s engagement party next Tuesday with my h. I have to call and tell my niece today that we are not attending, but my kids are going, so they will be upset we are not there. They will know it is me that prevented us from attending and I will look like the jerk. Last time we were at a similar party I cried in the bathroom and could not handle it well.
I HAVE THE PROBLEMS NOW. Even if he isn’t lusting, I am a wreck. I truly see no hope for my future at all. He has been complimentary to me, and kind…but it is all a mess. My pain is unending and I want to keep him home. The other day he went and played tennis with a friend and I cried. Why? Well, this friend has not been on my side either, so I guess I got triggered or something.
Yesterday my son’s fiancee came over and she was wearing a tank top for the first time this summer. I was dying on the inside. She is so cute, slender with beautiful black long hair. Fortunately, she changed into a swim outfit – shorts and a t-shirt – and was more modest. My daughter’s nipples were showing through her top when she swam and she is gorgeous also. My h wanted to swim but knew I was struggling. He said he wasn’t attracted to his own daughter… He went in the pool for a few minutes and I was okay. Later, my son’s fiancee ended up wearing a sweatshirt after the swim, so I was at peace when we all sat around eating after (except for my daughter’s occasional cleavage.) This is a very difficult way to live. It is not living. I just don’t know how to change myself.
A former friend and client wanted to take my h and I out to dinner last Sunday night. I was worried they would pick a restaurant with several tv’s and sexy waitresses – or even female waitresses! (That about kills me.)
They took us to a cool city called Royal Oak. Everyone walks the streets and there are cute cafes and restaurants…It was horrible. One beautiful girl after another pranced by us. They were decked out, or immodest or whatever. Thin, young, sexy…Sleeveless summer dresses, super-short skirts, tight shorts, cleavage showing…My h was sensitive…never looked at them he said, but it still was survival mode for me. I am undone and need antidepressants probably. I don’t even know who to call to get them. I don’t think I will ever have a life again. I feel hopeless – regardless of my h’s sobriety, attentiveness, compliments, and “I am sorry statements.”
And this engagement party is a problem…I feel bad about not attending BUT I CANNOT DO IT. I AM NOT STRONG ENOUGH. UNFORTUNATELY, NO ONE WILL UNDERSTAND. MY H WILL BE FRUSTRATED WITH ME…EVERYONE WILL BE, INTERNALLY. MY MOM TOLD ME THEY ALL JUST WANT ME TO GET OVER IT…IT HAS BEEN TOO LONG, THEY SAY.
I am sensing more and more that I am in trouble – regardless of my h’s success.
B. Trayed
Hi B-trayed.
I think that you have crossed into, or are in, the darkside or the abyss of this addiction. There comes a time when we can no longer allow the choices or habits of others decide our happiness and allow it to rob us of our lives. This can be very tough to do while living with an addict, and when you are expected to be in a relationship and act as a couple with the addict.From what you say on hear about your h, i do not feel that he has at all walked the path to recovery nor do i feel that he is in anyway considerate of you and your feelings.
Last year right around this time, i was trying to decide. Do we stay togehter in the home or do we split. I went to the h’s therapist, i took the h with me to my therapist, both felt that he was working on recovery and that he was doing well. My gut however went against the grain of what everyone was telling me. I wrestled with the daily. when i finally decided i wanted him out, i still did it based on my gut, rather that what people were saying. My gut said even if this ass is in “recovery”, even though i don;t beleive that he is, this is not a life that i want. I do not feel safe, i do not feel comfortable in my own home, i am not sleeping, i am overeating, and living this way just steals the joy out of my daily life. So I decided to kick him out despite eveyone elses words of praise. But now we are full circle today. As of today he goes to 12 step once a month, therapy 1-2 months a month, now has a cell phone with full internet access…..i guess the moral of the story here is that my gut was right…despite what everyone else was saying. When you are the target of abuse, you are often the only one that will see it or know. But again, I was right.
So again. We can only be happy when we honor ourselves, when we honor our dreams, feeling and choices. We cannot live a life of service to someone else and be happy. What do you need? I get the sense that you have lost yourself in all this mess and i challenge you to make a list of what you want and need to make it through the next day, month, year and make that happen. Not the h’s needs or the kids, but you. And be frank with yourself about what you need. don;t dismiss thinks because it would be too hard or not what is best for the h or kids.
As for depression. yes it may be creaping in. I have found that depression is a side effect of not living the life for you. that you become beaten down and hopeless. You may need anti-depressents to bring yo back up.
As for a therapist. Really anyone will do. I would not go to the adams guy, and the greif lady sounds like she may not want to deal with it. but just even talking to someone who will let you get it all out is good. Someone who is not going to label you a co-dependent is good.
I can feel your sadness in your post. I have thought about death too, what if I just die of a broken heart. Its really so sad for us to think this way. But we love you, your kids love you and please don’t leave the world and us. You are a kind caring person. Don’t let his crap bring you down. No one said this would be easy but the first thing you need to do is care for yourself. It was only then that i made these tough decisions and started lliving my life for me that those things changed. That i felt better, i started sleeping, i lost weight. It feels really good.
I hope that some of what i wrote is helpfull. But i would not be afraid to just go to any therpist, atleast get in and get started. If you don;t like them move on. We are here for you betrayed.
Love, FloraPlease b-trayed, get yourself to a medical doctor (female if you can), tell them your story and get some anti depressants. That is the first step you must take. Search online for family physicians in your area. Do it NOW!
You are so beaten down emotionally and physically you cannot think straight.
Get on some medication that will stabilize your moods and go from there.
You are not alone, we all will carry you through the darkness into the light–but you must find a doctor now.
As for therapists, there is a huge choice in your area. To see this list of therapists, along with their photos and bios just click the link below and put in your city or zip code and the list will come up.
Choose a few that you really like and get on the phone and give them a call. Interview them over the phone about their philosophy and make an appointment and try them out.
http://therapists.psychologytoday.com
Do this today. Do not wait. You need someone in your corner who will support and help just YOU right now.
Big hugs and lots of love
Thank you JoAnn.
I went to the site you provided and emailed a psychiatrist. He has many years of experience and is empirically-based. I was very straight forward in my struggles, mentioning wanting to die. I wrote that a friend told me to contact someone immediately…that was you, girl. Well, hopefully I will get an email or call from him today or tomorrow.
With sincere gratitude,
B. TrayedYou need to call this man and leave him a voice mail. I found my counselor through that site, but she said that she hardly ever checked that e-mail (often they put a secondary e-mail up to avoid spammers).
So, please call and do not rely on e-mail.
I’m playing mommy to you now, and I will not let up until you get some help.
Love and hugs, JoAnn
Dear B-trayed,
Listen, we’ve been there too. it’s dark. and so exhausting.
I used to lie down at night and make myself think one good thought so that if I died, I would have died with that in my head.
Please please do what JoAnn says. You’ve got to fight for your life. It belongs to you. Get help now. A therapist. A prescription. A reprieve from the shadowed valley.Don’t surrender to hopelessness. There is great hope for you. Great great hope.
love,
Diane.Dear B-trayed,
You have got to do what JoAnn says right now. You are a beautiful woman who deserves better than this. You are torturing yourself, and no good will come of that. Dont be afraid of the antidepressants. Consider it as though you are having chemo for cancer or insulin for diabetes. Your body needs this support so you can start to think straight. My doctor likened it to scaffolding around a house – your roof has caved in, your walls have crumbled and you need to rebuild. You cannot do it without a temporary support.
Talk to anyone, everyone until you get help. Stop protecting him. While you are doing that – who is looking after you?I read your post that 2 and a half years in you are still in doubt. Why? If he is in recovery as flora says – he should be bending over backward to prove to you that he is and prove to you that you can trust him. He should be treating you like a delicate flower and caring for you. I know the summer is hard, but you really really do need to stop the thinking thing. You need to think straight about you, what you want, what you need, what is good for you. Focus on you.
I know I am supposed to be a Christian here, but he should be treating you with respect and kid gloves. If you can, forgive him and move on. You must move on. But as JoAnn says, until you can stabilise your feelings of despair (and no doubt accompanying anxiety and panic which you must mention at the doctors to get the right prescription) you won’t be able to think straight.
I will keep you close in my prayers, God Bless you.Dear B-trayed,
You have got to do what JoAnn says right now. You are a beautiful woman who deserves better than this. You are torturing yourself, and no good will come of that. Dont be afraid of the antidepressants. Consider it as though you are having chemo for cancer or insulin for diabetes. Your body needs this support so you can start to think straight. My doctor likened it to scaffolding around a house – your roof has caved in, your walls have crumbled and you need to rebuild. You cannot do it without a temporary support.
Talk to anyone, everyone until you get help. Stop protecting him. While you are doing that – who is looking after you?I read your post that 2 and a half years in you are still in doubt. Why? If he is in recovery as flora says – he should be bending over backward to prove to you that he is and prove to you that you can trust him. He should be treating you like a delicate flower and caring for you. I know the summer is hard, but you really really do need to stop the thinking thing. You need to think straight about you, what you want, what you need, what is good for you. Focus on you.
I know I am supposed to be a Christian here, but he should be treating you with respect and kid gloves. If you can, forgive him and move on. You must move on. But as JoAnn says, until you can stabilise your feelings of despair (and no doubt accompanying anxiety and panic which you must mention at the doctors to get the right prescription) you won’t be able to think straight.
I will keep you close in my prayers, God Bless you.Hi B. trayed,
We have all been there and can really relate to what you are talking about. What helps me is to remember that the sex addiction is his issue and I had/have absolutely no control over that and his recovery, that is his choice. But his addiction made me sick and traumatized me and I DID have control over whether or not I stayed sick, got stuck, allowed this to have negative effects on my life or whether I found a way to move forward. Please take the good advice that the sisters’ above have given you. Make a choice today to begin healing yourself and move forward, and don’t let that depend on your husband in any way.
Love,
MarieHi B. trayed,
I haven’t been on much this week because I have company in town-just read your post and I am very concerned for you. You sound very distraught and I hope you have been able to pop up a bit from where you were. I agree with what everyone is telling you.Please if you can do not take what your husband does/has done personally. You are a wonderful, smart, beautiful woman. You are still the same great person you have always been. Im so sorry you are struggling and I hope you will get the help you need. You may feel weak however you are actually very strong because I have read each and every one of your posts and you are a strong woman. Please take good care of yourself and think positive thoughts about yourself because you are so special.
Please let us know how you are.
Love, Nap
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