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I guess I’m not as strong as I thought I was. Maybe I’m just having a weak moment or something, shit if I know.
As you guys know, Dean slipped with masturbation last month, although he has not called it a slip yet, but after today I think that will change (more on that in a minute). To catch up real quick, he MB three times in a month in the shower because “the moment struck him” while he was manscaping. Whatever. Don’t get me started on self control. We got through the whole why didn’t you tell me argument okay but we are still debating with the “slip” issue. Although, I’m leaving it up to him to decide whether or not it’s a slip, simply because it’s his recovery – to me, after much thought – it’s a slip. If you have a problem with compulsive MB, then you don’t use the term “healthy MB” as part of your recovery; it’s not rocket science.
Long and short on the whole slip or not slip aspect, he’s going to talk to his sponsor tonight when he sees him at his meeting. Again, his recovery, not mine, but – I gave him a shit load of a hard time about what a slippery slope it was and where it could lead and so did his sponsor last week. Personally, I think he doesn’t want to reset his chips…hmmmm??? But, we already had that discussion in another thread so I digress:
Back to ME, the important one of this post.
With all that’s going on, him MB, being contacted by Valerie (my lovely web stalker and his OW) and another OW last week, I’m a bit frazzled. I’ve held it together fairly well but I guess it came to a head tonight and I finally took my therapists advice.
I cried it out. I look like shit but I feel better. But, my self esteem has taken such a hit AGAIN. I know, I know, this isn’t about me, it’s about him. I just told that to someone yesterday. And that was fine…for her…but, somehow when applies to me, it just doesn’t seem to work. I am back to being uncomfortable being naked in front of him again. And, not to brag, but I’m a tiny little thing. Not a hottie, but decent enough to get hit on at work and such. So, why does it take such a simple act as him MB to drudge up all those old feelings of inadequacy?
Love,
SS
Hi SS,
Sorry for your pain, we’ve all been there:) As regards the MB and whether or not it’s “healthy” or a slip or a relapse, the semantics don’t really matter. It’s a problem and needs to be dealt with, but here’s my take on it. If an SA’s acting out behavior is sex with prostitutes and he has been sober and in recovery and a few months later “the moment strikes him” and he sees a prostitute, and then does so 2 more times over the next month and doesn’t tell anyone, spouse or sponsor….and the wife confronts him and tries to find out what the problem is because he is acting odd…..that’s a relapse in my opinion. A slip is when they recognize the behavior is a problem and take steps to stop and talk to someone about it. A relapse is when their behaviors are starting back, they are secret, and the SA’s are rationalizing and defending. Your H had a relapse. You could consider asking your husband to tell you about a slip within 24 hours…if he recognizes the behavior as a problem, tells you, and gets back on track…that’s a slip.
As regards you feeling bad, I think if your husband had come to you after a true slip or even with the relapse and talked to you, apologized, told you what his consequences for himself were, and that he was going to talk to his sponsor and recovery people and get back on track….you would still have plenty of emotions associated with this, but you would have to feel more respected and valued and loved than the disrespectful way that this played out.
1) He wasn’t honest and transparent with you…you had to track it down and force it out of him
2) He minimized and rationalized and justified, addict behaviors and you may feel like you are less important than the MB in the shower was to him BECAUSE of his response to your concerns
3) He didn’t take responsibility, perhaps until you were exhausted and beaten down and your esteem was pretty far south.
That’s not respectful behavior…if it had been, you would have been much better off.
If I were in your place, I would draw my line in the sand and tell him that I will not allow anyone, including h,im to treat me disrespectfully, what that looks like to you, and what you will do about it if it happens again. I bet you would be astonished at how quickly self esteem can rise:)Love,
MarieDear SS,
I cannot go here without making things much worse. Marie knows about this stuff and lives with it. If you want to live with it, is best if the advice comes from those who handle it with grace I could NEVER do. I am thinking of you and sorry just the same. HUGS Karen xx
Hi Karen,
I actually don’t have any experience with the slip/relapse issue personally as regards sex addiction since my husband has been in recovery, but that’s the plan I have in place if /when it happens. I have dealt with the slips/relapses of intimacy anorexia and that’s what works for me. My husband says sex addiction recovery is a walk in the park compared to intimacy anorexia.
MarieMasterbation is cheating, in my opinion, if your husband is lusting and fantasizing about anyone but YOU, his wife. If he masterbated to someone else, whether a prostitute stripping in a hotel room that he never touches, a cable tv women, a movie star or model, then he is being unfaithful…in my opinion. You are enough for him. You are perfect for him. Men that masterbate to other women are greedy for more. They have a lovely wife at home, beautiful and a great mother to their children, and they want to fantasize about another women too. I have money issues, but I don’t just steal because I want more. I might think another man is attractive, but I don’t arouse myself by thinking about him sexually. I am committed to my h 100% sexually.
Obviously this is a hot topic for me. I have much literature on the negatives of masterbating to other women besides your wife. I would not recommend masterbating to thoughts of a wife either, now that I realize my h was a compulsive masterbator to a billion other women for 20 years. It is very rejecting.
What is his plan when he is tempted to masterbate again. Shouldn’t he have a set plan…call a sponsor, run to you, burn himself with the shower water??? If he doesn’t control his sexual urges for pleasure than he should do what Marie suggests above.
Love ya and I am so sorry, B. TrayedMake that an ice cold shower, B-Trayed! Apparently, that’s what he needed!!!
SS,
Boo! I’m sorry you had to go through this. Sigh…. I hope you are feeling better now.Here’s the ironic thing, throughout my marriage, I was constantly trying to “fix” myself so my husband would want to be intimate with me, since apparently he wasn’t interested all of a sudden. (after only several months of marriage). I really worked hard at losing weight among other things. I was never really big, but could always stand to lose 10 or 20 pounds. “If I could just be thinner, maybe He’ll find me more attractive”. Well, as I lost weight, the first thing to go was my breasts! (well maybe my wrists and ankles first). Anyway, fast forward to D day, and I discover he is out screwing 300 and 400 pound women with the biggest boobs you’ve ever seen!
Ugh! All my hard work for nothing. I hope you see my point, it really isn’t about YOU. Not one bit. Hang in there!!
Thank you all so much – what started out as a post with me needing and craving support for my low self esteem – which I got from you all, thank you so much, – it really turned into a much needed reality check.
Gee thanks Marie =P Just kidding – what you wrote has caused me to take pause and made me reflect upon the last few months of Dean’s recovery. I’m not nearly as composed as many of you, especially as JoAnn so bear with me! =)
First, let me address the easiest question, Bt, he didn’t have a sponsor yet. He’s only had a sponsor for a week. His recovery has just now, after eight months, just started falling somewhat into place. While I’ve seen him grow in leaps in bounds in every other area – communication with me, the kids, chores around the house, getting his ass off the couch and back to school, caring for me when I’m sick, etc – his actual recovery on the SA side was as slow as shit. It was when I backed off and said fuck it, it’s his not mine that he picked it up and took responsibility for it.
However, he HAD the tools in place NOT to masturbate and chose not to use them. In Candeo he learned a technique called FRC (Face It, Replace It, Connect). Instead, he was told at his SAA meetings that it was okay to MB because it was a healthy outlet during stressful times and the wife didn’t have to know everything after all, it’s his recovery! I say bullshit on that. So, Dean chose what was more appealing to him, MB over FRC. He is heading down a slippery slope on his recovery – I can plainly see it and the first clue was that he was distancing himself from me which led the the whole discovery of the MB in the first place.
So, Marie, I agree with you. While it’s semantics, whether we call it a slip or relapse, like you said, the important thing at this point is what HE does with it.
We talked last night after he came home from his meeting. He came home from that meeting feeling isolated from everyone – another sign to me that things are not “right” in his head. We spoke for a very long time and I remained calmed and detached. I let him know that from here on out this is how it needed to be:
1. MB was not acceptable to me and needed to be considered a slip and he needed to let me know within 24 hours of the slip. He agreed.
2. I felt that he had a relapse not a slip but that was for him to decide, not me.
3. He need to talk to his sponsor this weekend, openly and honestly about what happened. His sponsor has already made it clear that D needs to have MB in his inner circle.
D agreed to everything and said he is completely confused. He feels like he’s doing everything right. That he’s got things in check at home, communication improving, school, etc and then listening to SA at the meetings and still fucking it all up. I told him the people he needs to listen to are his CSAT, and himself and if he knew in his gut that he couldn’t come to me about MB then he knew it was wrong.
I think I’m handling this correctly. I’m not upset now that I’ve had time to talk to him about it calmly and rationally and have him understand how vitally important him MB was.
Thanks guys! For everything!! Especially for letting me ramble….
Sorry Marie, I thought it would convert like when we do smiley faces: =P is like a wink only with a tongue sticking out
Again, thank you for giving me food for thought last night. He’s on the phone now with his sponsor – you have no idea how much you’ve helped and I’m so grateful to you.
Hugs,
SSMarie,
Quit your job and become a counselor.
If I get better, you may even be able to take on another client or two???Just thought I’d give you guys an update – Dean had a long talk with his sponsor yesterday afternoon and then another one with me yesterday.
Marie-are you a counselor? If not, bt is right – become one! You called this from a mile away. Now that I’ve laid down my boundaries and we’ve talked about this openly and honestly, I feel so much better about myself. I don’t understand the why of it all but I’ll be talking to my counselor about it tomorrow – again – thank you!
Dean did as he promised and addressed the MB again with his sponsor. He told him about his dishonesty with me and his lack of transparency. He said he opened up to his sponsor and it felt good to finally have someone after all this time that he could talk too without fear of judgement. D said they talked for a while about that and then they began some more work on his first step.
In the end, he turned in his chips and is back at two weeks sobriety. He is ashamed of himself. He is embarrassed of his behavior.
As for me, I feel better. I feel safer although I’m not sure why, but I do. I think it’s because it finally clicked in his damn head but also because we were able to make it through this relapse together and because I was able to create boundaries that I know I can stand behind. Although, I’m a bit embarrassed myself that I didn’t include them in my original BA. Duh.
Hugs,
SS
Ha! I laughed when I read what B.T. said about quitting my day job and becoming a counselor:) I am NOT a counselor or therapist, I’m a primary care physician. And although primary care does call for some basic counseling prior to referral to the people who actually do that well…. I don’t talk to my patients the way I talk on here. On here, I’m just me… and part of that is that I happen to be married to a sex addict. And trust me, I have learned vastly more from you guys than I have given back. So thank you and thank you all for the kind words:)
Love,
MarieSS, NEVER BE EMBARRASSED ABOUT ANYTHING REGARDING WHAT YOUR HUSBAND HAS PUT UPON YOU. You never signed up for this. You should NOT have to know what a boundary agreement is or how to handle his relapses. You are doing so well. Pat yourself on the back each day!!!
Love, B. TrayedMarie, I agree you should become a therapist. You do sound like one. A good one.
No wonder your husband is so confused about whether mb is a slip, SS, with all the crappy advice he is getting from SAA (why I prefer SA). If I were a sex addict, I am sure I’d love to hear that mb was okay, esp from those I saw as expert. As a spouse, I would not be able to sit idly by while he tries to decide if it was a slip. It’s a freaking slip! There is no question here. To me, that is about boundaries. If he refuses to include no mb in his definition of sobriety (or one of his “inner circle” behaviors) then that should be one of your boundaries, if you feel the way you do. While I believe in 12 step meetings as being an important part of recovery, one huge downfall is that there is no real expert there. Addicts have to recognize that. This is why there should be therapy in addition to the meetings, and he should attend more than one meeting. If he wants real recovery, he will find a meeting where the members are serious about recovery. Sounds like that is not where he is now.
I’m just wondering if most go cold turkey or do they do step down. For example, if ones h was into prostitutes, random hook ups, massage parlors, and porn, would they stop the prostitutes, and still do the rest for a while then stop another or is it everything at once?
Thanks, napWell, as we know, I am far from an expert on this subject, but I can tell you what I’ve learned thus far from my most recent experience, NAP – it’s cold turkey. From what D’s sponsor told him, his bottom line behaviors should have stayed in his inner circle. Period.
When D first started his recovery, he stopped all of his behaviors cold turkey and it was a rough month or two while he went through withdrawals.
Ella-I think you’re right, SAA is more lenient than SA meetings, and I’m thankful he goes every week. He is also in therapy as well and just found a sponsor that he is comfortable talking to. He wanted someone who was still married and had been sober for more than two years – something not easy to find. I really like that he’s gotten a sponsor now, he has someone, a “regular” guy, who has been through the same things he has. A wife at home, all the stresses of the addiction and the recovery but most of all, he has someone he can reach out to now during times of confusion like with the MB issue, someone to help keep him focused. That takes all that mess away from me.
Hugs,
SS
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