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My h just emailed me that he wants to spend Thanksgiving with me, but he thinks that I don’t want to be with him, and could I let him know, as he’ll go to his parents otherwise. I’m getting all teary and I don’t know what to do. I haven’t communicated with him at all for about 6 days, though he’s texted me and emailed me. I can’t have him come here for Thanksgiving, as my son will be here, and my son is at the point of not wanting to deal with my h (his stepdad) anymore, which breaks my heart as well. I don’t know how to manage the pain I feel in my heart with common sense and self-protection right now.
I had commented earlier to lynng that I could relate to her being a ‘marshmallow,’ because I’m the same way, and my heartstrings get pulled so easily. It’s not so easy right now to see it as manipulation or whatever. I’m just seeing a lonely man who fcked up his life, and it’s tearing me apart. I wish I didn’t still love him, but I do. How does one deal with this?
Thank you, my sisters, for being there..
Annie xoxoDear Annie
last year, in the midst of divorce talk and pretty fresh disclosure, i told my h i would not have thanksgiving with him and his mother. I got guilted into doing it for daughter the holidays etc, I REGRET THAT I WENT. I SOFTENED TOO SOON. i wish we had done it apart, so he could get an idea of where my boundaries were. that’s just my experience. one year after, how I wish I had stayed my ground and held my position.,
Stay true to the real man in your life- your son. Believe me, it’s the best decision and one you shouldn’t regret.
Just speaking from experience, sister. For the longest time after D day, the only men I trusted were my Daddy, my brothers, and my son. And even though I’m starting to let someone new and special into my life- I’m still laying all chips down on the original guys.
My SA is also my son’s stepdad. Many times thru the years, I chose my SA’s wishes over my son’s. And probably to date, those times are my biggest regret.
My SA was also famous for ruining many holidays with his narcissism and other PD’s, sexual addiction included.
Never again.
Good luck with this heart breaking decision. Believe me, I totally understand. But, I’m still rooting for your son!!
XOXOXO!!!
Thank you, Pam. I haven’t been good at the boundaries, and this is the longest I’ve gone being able to stick to them, but now with this email, I feel my defenses crumbling. I can’t even imagine how hard it must have been for you to do Thanksgiving with him in the wake of disclosure. Did you find that he started assuming a lot after that, acting like things were going to be back to normal? Because I’m learning that these SA’s can compartmentalize like nobody’s business.
Thank you, silverlining. Yes, I am definitely having my son for Thanksgiving, and not my h. It’s just that it’s causing pangs in me, as far as replying to him. I need to toughen up, because I guess it’s a little weird to be feeling pain for him right now, and agonizing over a gentle way to respond to him.
And that is so wonderful that you have someone special in your life. Wishing you much happiness and healing.
Anniem, just reply that it is hard to feel grateful with him around, which would ruin the whole point of Thanksgiving.
Hi Annie,
It’s very hard to deal with the conflicts we feel inside. If you can stay close to the truth because our emotions can start to rationalize over time and it takes us away from the truth and we end up worse off. Your original feelings after discovery are your true feelings, don’t forget them and remind yourself of how you felt. Keep it simple otherwise they habe more to manipulate. For example, always us yourself in your responses because that is who you are taking care of (not him that’s his job) say for example: It would be nest for me if you went to your parents for Thanksgiving. Period, don’t elaborate. You will regret it if you gI’ve I’m to fleeting emotions, stay to the truth.
Love, NapLol, March.. And NAP, thank you so much. I’d previously drafted an email to him that went into way too much explanation, which of course is useless. So I will take your advice and keep it simple and to the point. Thanks again.
Hi anniem,
You got some great advice. I was going throug this same thing last year. H invited me to with kids to his family, I decided.to go to my parents instead to ohio. Now what seemed so simple was not. I agonized I stressed,,,,,on and on. But once I did it, and thanksgiving passed, I did not regret my decision one bit. It’s the pulling apart of the enmeshed beings and it is hard. Afterall they ate your spouse. However what I have found over the past year is that of you always honor your gut and do what you want to do, you will have no regret. Sometimes the worry leading upbringing the event is not as bad as the event. As for as the reply. In the words of my daughters teacher, my daughter OS 4 now, keep your answers simple. Less to throw back at you and less amp to shoot you with later. It can be as simple as no. Good luck.Annie,
Your boundaries are the most important thing in dealing with a SA. Had it not been for the boundaries I set, we would not be in the position we are in today.
Just like a child, they will test you and those boundaries as my SA did. He broke a boundary and I made him leave. He was devastated. He didn’t think I would follow up with the consequences. It was really hard for me to do that, but those were the rules of the game and I had to stick to them to prove that I was serious.
We haven’t had a problem since and if he slips and breaks another boundary, even though we’ve gotten closer and he’s made great strides in recovery, I will most certainly enforce the consequences even though our future looks brighter. In this life, with an SA, you cannot let things slide. They bank on it. It’s wired into their brain to push our limits to see if they can win. It’s called manipulation. I, by my actions, told him that I will not be manipulated ever again.
Follow your heart when you make decisions. You won’t be able to please everyone. But the last person you should be trying to please is the one who hurt you the most. Your son is your life, he loves you unconditionally. It’s a no brainer to choose you son over your SA.
Hope this helps.
Much love, Claire
anniem,
Have thansgiving with your son and let you H worry about himself. If you let your H come because you feel bad for him, you are sending the message to H and your son that what H wants is what rules. That’s a SA mentalty. Don’t let it be yours!Your H needs to see that there are consquences to his actions and choices. He chose his addiction over his family. So he shouldn’t be expecting to be part of that family in the same was as before. I am sure he DOES because it’s what SA’s do. Try to have their cake and eat it too. Everything is about them.
I’d tell him that if he wants to prove that he is changing and that you are more important than his addiction then he shoud do the selfless thing and make his own thansgiving arrangement so you and your son can enjoy yours. What’s more important to him… that HE has a happy thanksgiving or YOU have a happy thanksgiving.
Thank you so much, everybody. I hope I ended up doing the right thing. I started out with NAP’s suggestion of ‘It would be best if you went to your parents.’ But then I did end up adding to it, even though it’s pretty much what I’d already told him a week ago. After sending it, I think..hope.. it’s ok. I’d done some praying beforehand about the best way to respond to him. I’m a lapsed Catholic, so I’m not exactly religious, though still guilt-ridden. Thanks a bunch, Baltimore Catechism! 🙂 But I do still believe in the power of prayer, and so I went with what came to my mind after praying. I’m posting it below, because of my rather enormous tendency to second-guess my gut. No doubt my email will go over his head, but I had to somehow balance my boundary with the compassion that I continue to feel about him…when I’m not wanting to smack him silly, that is. Thank you again for all your help and advice. xoxo
My email to him:
It would be best if you went to your parents for Thanksgiving. I am not writing this email in anger, but as I said before, I cannot see you or talk to you, or consider being able to go on with you while you are still protecting your secrets from me. Please don’t say the word polygraph to me yet again, because a polygraph won’t answer the questions that I have as a result of your hiding your first step from me, as you know. There are things I am now realizing that you are still hiding from me, partly because you are afraid I would leave if I knew. But the hiding is driving me further away from you much more quickly, and causing me to have to seriously consider a future without you, because hiding and secrets are what got us to the point where we are today, and I cannot and will not continue a life like that. This is not about what your therapist says, or about what your sponsor says, but about how I have reached my limit of what I am able to take in the aftermath of all this. Your therapist and sponsor are not me, and they are not in a relationship with you, and neither of them have been in the place that I am. I realize that what I am saying probably won’t make sense to you at this stage in your recovery, because rigorous honesty, empathy and humility have not yet been embraced by you, and as is typical for most addicts, your protective ego is still primarily in control of you. Again, this is not anger talking, and it is seriously not meant in an insulting way; it is simply a realization.
But if and when that changes, or even begins to truly change, then we can talk. I love you, but I am having to detach from you at this point in time, because I can no longer handle the secrets and the minimizing and the lies that continue post-discovery.
I truly do hope that you are able to embrace real recovery and all that it entails, and to sincerely seek help from your higher power in understanding that true recovery must be your priority.Hi anneim,
I think you did good, you said i am willing to x, however he needs to do xyz for that to happen. And again you are also doing this because this is what you want to do, based on his reactions.Be prepared for “what is real recovery”…what is blah blah blah. But hopefully, maybe, he will leave you alone.
My h did ask…what is real recovery. I am not exactly sure what the technical definition is, however i would know it when i saw it, and would feel it if true. My h wanted a manual to follow, and i refused to tell him …i want you to do xyz, because he would have done xyz just because i told him to. I wanted it to come from him or his therapist and it never did.
My thought was, is that i could tell him what i want, however if i did that then, then it would just be a continued lifetime of the same thing over and over.
i hope the best for you!!
Love,
FloraThanks, flora. I realized my long email to him was a waste of time. I got an email back from him this morning, telling me that I was misunderstanding his first step thing, and then just mainly about him missing me, and talking about Christmas without me, and saying that he’d ‘probably just go out of town for Christmas.’ I feel all jumbled up inside, like I’m warring with myself. Warring with my compassion for him, and second-guessing myself. It’s weird.. It’s as if I’m thinking of him as a child, I guess, and it’s pulling at my maternal heartstrings. I’m a bit of a mental mess right now.
Hi anniem, I know how you feel. I had several of these interactions with my h as well. And funny thing was that I got similar replies. I would ask what are you going to do, and his replies were typically what your h wrote. Five pages about how much he loves me and does not want a divorce h, however that is not an answer to my question. Putting things in writing really makes it so you can see and read what is going on. That you are in fact not getting the answers that you need. Whenever I had verbal conversations with my h, I typically would not get an answer however would spend Much time in discussion, realizing no resolve was made and I got nowhere. But in reality that is their mo. To keep us dazed and confused. Because if we catch onto the act, they are sunk. Love, flora
Anniem,
I think you are so much more on top of this than what you are giving yourself credit for. Your email really impressed me. I understand the compassion that you have for him and the second guessing. I am in the divorce process and I still find that inner struggle.
I am trying to ride in the current and stop fighting against it. This is one of the currents that I find myself fighting, I hope that reading this helps.
I have compassion for my husband. I have love for him and I care for his well being. Instead of seeing that compassion as the wonderful quality that it is, I fight it. I get frustrated for myself that I have such compassion when I am actually sad and in pain. How can I have compassion when I am actually very angry about what happened? Again, my own inner battle. Am I betraying myself? If I feel compassion for this person who has actually hurt me, am I letting myself down? Then anger rises out of the compassion and sets itself deeper in my psyche. I respond with protection for my inner being because the pain awakens with a growl. The inner war battles on causing you to second guess your reality. This makes you swim against the current of compassion. I am trying to let myself accept the compassion and ride with that current. See that compassion is a good quality to have. Allow yourself to be at peace with the compassion that you have for him. Accept that the compassion that you are feeling for him is painful for you right now. Here is the trick. Have the same compassion for yourself. What ever you are feeling for him, feel for yourself just as strong. You are a loving wonderful person that without compassion would not be able to feel at the depth that you do. It is a painful journey that you are on. Ride that current as well. Release yourself into the knowledge that you have entered rocky territory. That is fate, and that is out of your control. You are here now, and you are a strong woman. Be honest and true to yourself. I believe that once we have stopped fighting the current, we will be able to feel when the waters have stopped the fierce pull and we can swim in the direction that is best for us. Trust yourself. This is what I am trying to do. It is scary and sometimes lonely, but there is proof that the rough waters cannot last forever. Wait for that moment that you feel safe to try and reach for grounding. Be gentle with yourself as you navigate these waters. When you feel yourself going back upstream fighting the current, remember that sometimes the best thing to do is float.
Ok, so this seems kind of deep but it is just where I am at these days.
Love to all.
CindyCindy–
That was beautifully put. I know you were giving advice to anniem, but I’m going to take that advice too–I think we all should!
Thanks for taking the time to post it!
Paula
Wow, Cindy.. I don’t know how to thank you. And you’re the one who said she often deletes her replies?? Please don’t! You are amazing! I am going to copy your post and keep it in my journal. Thank you so much.
And Flora, thank you.. What you said is so true. We go round and round..or did, when we were speaking, which we’re not right now.. and really nothing gets said. He knows that I need to see that blithering 12page first step document, now that he’s told me he did it, and now that he refuses to let me see it. wtf.. Does he really think that my imagination won’t run wild with wondering what the hell is in it? Scratch that.. he doesn’t think, period.
NAP and march..Lol.. I found myself saying out loud, ‘what a clusterfck’ this morning, after reading his email. I find myself talking to myself a lot, come to think of it. i need a loony bin pronto.
Annie, I thought you wrote a good message, but I understand that he is not able to process anything execpt in a defensive way. But your words were good. You didn’t lapse into anger or victime modes. You were just great.
March you are hilarious. thanks for the laugh.
Cindy, very important point! thank you. Having compassion for ourselves is the leverage point to achieving healing. There is no virtue is a relationship where the SA is “recovering” and the spouse is not healing at all.
D.xo
Dear Anniem:
I am really happy that you spending Thanksgiving with your son. And to answer your question– Did my SAH think everything was back to “normal” because of going to Thanksgiving with him last yr? The answer is yes. After Thanksgiving, it was my daughter’s birthday, then it was Christmas and New Year’s. And then, we were acting like a couple again. I mean I was sleeping on the sofa, but overall nothing had changed. It still hasn’t. I was too soft, in my opinion. And I regret it. I hope you stand by your guns, he will likely continue to try and “guilt” you into doing what he wants— Don’t. YOu will respect yourself so much more. enjoy your son.
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