Polygraph Testing

I did address this earlier, but I can’t remember where. My SA took a polygraph about a year in, as suggested by his therapist that we also saw together. He passed with no problems, and it was a huge relief for me. It meant he’d been truly committed to his recovery, not faking it. Until then, how could I have been sure? Right, I surely didn’t trust my instincts. Not long after, he started going to fewer meetings, counseling less often…Finally, he refused to go to meetings, saying he didn’t need them. He was tired of hearing the same old stories, tired of the same guys picking up white chips every time they came. I told him I couldn’t live with a sex addict–someone so capable of treachery, unless he was in active recovery, doing things–not just saying things. He just wouldn’t go, and even my own therapist (who doesn’t specialize in this at all) leaned on me to give him a break. So around the second year mark, I asked for another poly, and he agreed. He procrastinated, though, and it didn’t happen for a few months. When he took the test, he failed. You’ve never seen so much crying and carrying on. He was DEVASTATED. He hadn’t done ANYTHING. He was so upset, I suggested he retake. The second test, done by a different guy, was inconclusive, and the guy suggested to me very subtly that my SA seemed to be jacking with the test so he couldn’t get a baseline. After that, I was at a total loss. I had the SA swearing he was innocent, the test that said he wasn’t, and a test that didn’t matter. All I had at that point was his word. What good was that? I told my SA he needed to start back with the meetings and therapy. He refused, saying he wasn’t going to be punished for the rest of his life because of a bogus test. So I filed for divorce, and he seems fine with that. !3 years of marriage, 4 kids involved, and he chunks it all because he can’t bear an hour a week.

Kim,
You took the words out of my mouth. I’m afraid my SAH will slow down his recovery and decide he can do it on his own (aka, narcissism). This is all part of the “holding my breath until???” issue that I really need to make a decision about. Holding my breath until he slips, relapses, decides he can handle it on his own….will it be 6 months, 1 year, 6 years? You get the picture.
And Lexie, I so agree: March: you are so lovely. Thanks for sharing “your other side” with us. 🙂

love and hugs,
Julie

Dear Zgirl,

Which part of his recovery are you afraid he might “slow down” on?? Just askin…. 🙂

I hate to add doubt, where we all have so much. But, there are ways to beat polygraphs. At least there used to be thirty years ago. If they’re better now, that’s great and I’d love to hear it and I will insist on one with the disclosure upcoming. But I don’t have a lot of faith in that in my situation.

For one, I don’t think H even considers most of what he does lying. H said last night, about the two additional women now in “our picture” (in addition to the two I found out about last month, that is) H said he was waiting for the right time to talk about that because his counselor helped him see how much I was already devastated by what had been discovered (I used that instead of disclosure because he did not DISCLOSE anything, it was found when I started realizing the extent of what we’re dealing with). And I said, “No, what you mean is that you want all of it, on your terms and your timing.”

This is why I think a polygraph would be useless with my H. He has rationalized deceit and lying and redefined it as his moral imperiative to use his intellect to protect ME from the pain of knowledge of his actions. In which case, it’s not lying, it’s discernment in knowing when and if the truth is necessary. I say “MAGNA CARTA, dude” (the king is not above the law, in other words). Lying is lying no matter how your perversly twisted intellect rationalizes it.

Why woud this affect a polygraph? For normal people, non- crooks, and men who have not read and re-read the SA playbook, it wouldn’t.

I worked in drugstores for years when I was going to school. My mother managed them the whole time I was a child. Polygraphs were random and frequent. A guy who got caught stealing and fencing pharmaceuticals from the pharmacy shared in a management meeting how he got by the polygraphs for so many years. He said, all you have to do is add a phrase you to the end of whatever the questioner asks. Like “Have you ever stolen money?” becomes “Have you ever stolen money with a handgun?” You repeat your own question in your head three times after the questioner finishes speaking and you can answer “NO” all day long and it won’t register as a lie, if you stole without using a handgun. And there’s the Buddhist approach, control your breathing and that will help control your heartrate. (That may not work now, with the more sensitive machines.)

Big confession, I tried it. The adding a phrase trick. As moral and honest as I am, the curiousity was too great. Can you really short circuit your autonomic physiological responses with something that simple? That was scary and new age and just crazy. So, after about a year of wondering, and hearing lots of other mall workers say, yeah, people do it all the time, I tried it. (Shame) I stole a shirt, put it in the bag of a friend who had admired it but didn’t have the cash, along with his purchases. He worked three stores down, and the guys in that store “added to” eachothers purchases all the time, they said. They told me how naive I was, to believe it was such a big deal. (SA’s already, I’d bet, at that young age). I was 19. It was a $15 shirt. It was so wreckless and I could have been fired and arrested. Stupid. I wouldn’t recommend that for anyone.

I was terrified and suffered miserable guilt. But when the random polygraphs came, I added some little thing to the “Have you ever stolen anything?” question, can’t even remember now what I added. It worked. Even though I thought I would die, I passed the polygraph with flying colors. I have never admited it since, and I quit that job two weeks later because I couldn’t face the manager. Even though I hated her, I felt horrible knowing what I’d done.

What could an SA who lies like breathing do on a test? My guess, anything they want.

Sisters, I don’t know if that’s still the case. I’d love to hear if there have been improvements.

I just think if we are working at this level of effort, untrustworthiness, technical intervention, inconclusive resutls, etc., perhaps we ought to be paid to stick around by the treatment gurus who needs us to implement their programs and coverup the failure of their impossible promises.

…and people think I’m a fool for trusting in the Holy Mystery called God!!!

March,
My head is reeling with this information. I am sssoooooooo proud of you. How, how, how did you do it? How did you reach the place of totally believing in yourself? This is crazy. I keep second guessing myself all of the time. I know if I had been in your shoes, this is what I would have done.

Tell me how you are feeling in your gut now with where you are at? My husband uses that same phrase with me. He kept telling me that he was not going to be punished for the rest of his life over this. He would always tell me that he was not going to let me hang this over his head. To me, just by him saying that made me question his sincerity. But than I would second guess myself and think ‘is he saying that he will not be punished for the rest of his life because he is actually telling me the truth and he is tired of being accused. If someone is falsely accused would they not get to a point that they would be tired of defending themselves?’ But than I would think ‘Well, if he knows that I am sad and struggling with something that he did, would he not take this opportunity to help me beleive that he is telling me the truth? Would he say to me that he understands that I am questioning the truth right now but that he will continue to work with me about this so that I will find a way to believe him?’ Or am I expecting way to much and live in some kind of fairy tale land thinking that he needs to respond the way I need to hear it?

my friends husband payed off the tester-also ur husband can take a beta blocker to beat the test

Well, evidently my husband wasn’t smart enough to beat the game. And I’d wager he tried.

Cindy, your questions are mine as well. It’s so hard not to second-guess oneself. I feel like I’m chasing my tail so much of the time.
Something I’ve seen women say on this board that helps is that what we are asking for is normal, but that addicts don’t do normal, and that realizing that can help distance oneself from the disease. Of course, the second-guessing part of us will pipe in with, ‘But how do I know what I’m asking for is normal and not over the top?’ At least, that’s what happens with me. I try to quiet that self-doubt in the moment with the thought that what my h did and why he did it is so very far from normal and so completely self-centered that my asking myself if I’m being ‘unfair’ must just be a self-doubting reflex on my part. Because I’ve always second-guessed myself, long before finding out about his sex addiction.

A therapist I went to for years for anxiety would tell me, ‘Watch for the familiar feeling.’ And what that familiar feeling may be for you.. as it is for me.. is ‘I must be wrong. Why would my gut be trustworthy? Other people’s guts are right, but mine can’t be because it’s mine.’ He said that if it’s a feeling that feels like an old tape and makes you feel bad and doubt yourself, that you should try to recognize it in the moment, rather than give in to it, and, in his words, ‘be suspicious of it and consider the possibility that it’s just an old tape in your head.’ It’s easier said than done, but it’s one thing that’s stuck with me and sometimes helps. If I’m able to catch it, that is. Old habits die hard.

Sending you big hugs,
Annie xoxo