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I spied and saw something the SA just told his addict friends –
“Through acting out and looking at porn, I think it’s really affected my views of women. I always thought you have a relationship just so you can have sex with them. I thought that up until early last year, when I got found out by my partner about my secret life.”
Sitting here just frozen and crying, in shock. WTF.
The only thing I have now to hold on to from those 10 years is that I provided him with a vagina????
I never thought it was THIS fucking bad. I thought he HAD a relationship with me because he liked me, not just because I had a vagina between my legs.
I thought all those years, where I’m told he apparently compartmentalized, he enjoyed knowing me and did at least somewhat love me, that we were best friends, even despite his secret life BS. I truly have thought all this time that he did care about me back then. That I meant more to him. That we had REAL things between us. That he enjoyed my company OUTSIDE of the bedroom.
It doesn’t make any sense. In the first 4 years of being together, he would tell me how much he loved me, that what we had was magical and nothing would get between us, that I was the best girlfriend in the world. He cried at the airport when I went overseas. Write little love letters. Cried when my parents once went nuts screaming at me. I know it now sounds all typical, but back then it really FELT real. I would have bet $1 billion that it was REAL. Anyone who knew us would have too.
For the past 2 months, I’ve been trying to come to terms with how he said he doesn’t love me now – which has been difficult for me to accept – but by doing that I’ve been trying to focus on how at least the past had some real moments and love. That I need to grieve that old relationship. That at least before any of the physical cheating started, we did have something good and real. That I can hold on to that in my life, and let everything else go. Because it’s what I’ve been emotionally holding on to – because, as odd as it sounds, they were the best years of my life – I thought I had the perfect relationship and life. After D-day, it all felt like a massive lie, but then people have always said to me, including therapists and my family, ‘well some of it had to have been real”… and I eventually came to believe that. But now, I learn NOTHING was real.
The blows just never stop. First – I learn he doesn’t love me anymore, hasn’t felt that way about me since D-day. Now, I learn all those years before discovery, I was JUST a fucking piece of meat. And for real.
Just a prostitute who he didn’t have to pay. I feel so used and dehumanized.
He was the type that always wanted to have sex. He lost his virginity to me.
Oddly, just the other day he confessed/revealed to me while he was crying that he doesn’t even enjoy having sex. Never has, because his performance issues were the only thing constantly on his mind, to the point he couldn’t enjoy it.
My mind is in shock from today. I need to pinch myself. Is this real?
The books never fucking warn or prepare about this – that yeah you were used, he didn’t love you, you were just a fucking hole for him to fuck. Why do they sugar coat it for partners? Is it all just to “protect” us from the horrifying truth?
How do I EVER process and accept it? What do I do with “this” now?
Why am I attached to someone who only ever saw me as mere meat to screw???? I just can’t quit crying.
Oh and he’s the one who thinks he’s got a bad sad depressed life! This is unimaginable what I have been through! Live my life asshole!
Now I feel really faint. He’s supposed to call me tonight after his meeting.
Victoria,
I am so, so sorry for your new discovery. It seems their betrayals never end. And each new revelation just brings back all the pain and trauma.
Just breath.
I just want to cry for you. God knows, we all know that feeling of being defrauded and used. The humiliation of loving someone with all our hearts and finding out that it was not reciprocated. Someone else used your life and body for their own deviant purposes. It’s like a continual rape for all those years. Your whole being was violated while you sleeping. And now you have awakened to find the person you trusted most took advantage of you without a shred of feeling or remorse.
My heart beaks for you as you try to make sense out of something so senseless.
Victoria,
I think maybe in those wonderful moments he thought he loved you, too. And possibly what you heard was driven by bravado and a twisted pissing contest type adolescent need to be cool. They are so compartmentalized and image driven who knows what is real in him?
I am certainly not defending him. And not sugar coating either. Whatever his demented reality was/is, your value is NOT reflected in his behavior.
I’m sorry you have to go through this? You’ve started a thread that I was wondering myself. Do you all feel used by these guys? I certainly felt used. They may have cared or even loved us at one point, but my end conclusion for my situation is that I was just someone he wanted to screw while he used his “girlfriend” as a babysitter for his elderly mom and as a front for his family and friends while he went around screwing other girls.
That’s the sad part is when you realized that you were just being used for their own selfish reasons. I’m sorry if I sound like a downer, but it really does seem to me that most of these guys are just selfish bastards who uses everyone they come across.
I’ve had 3 hours of sleep, so forgive me if I’m rambling.
They are users. My SAH, in that clip that’s posted, said it so clearly and I KNOW he had no clue what he was revealing about the level of objectification he has achieved in regards to ALL women. He said it was no different than alcohol or drugs, sex was his drug of choice. Get it? No different = the fact that ANOTHER HUMAN BEING a is USED to get the high doesn’t factor in AT ALL. He said if SAs didn’t have sex they’d “use”
Just “use” someTHING else. He said that. The audience caught that. You can hear them shouting but AC calmed them.
Victoria,
What was real and always was and will be is you. Please hold on to you. I know this realization hurts like hell, it’s unfair, it’s insane what they think and do, plain horrible. You were and are real. Please remember that always.
Love, NapI`m so sorry Victoria.
I can`t help but be a tad skeptical about anything they have written or said to their “group” or Csat…I have found that they just write and say whatever everybody else is saying. They don`t know what to say. KMF ( karen) said to me that them gaining and spouting their newly found “insights” is worse than the F`n around. She said it better but she has a great point. My H came back from group spouting that my son is going to be an SA. They don`t have any true insights Victoria. They all just read the workbooks and parrot back what they think sounds good. You cannot trust he meant that any more than you can trust anything else he said.
I think that`s where the irritating ” It`s not about you” part comes in. It really isn`t. It isn`t about anybody but them. I know it is so painful but try to take it with a grain of salt. And for heaven`s sake, consider the source.
Right, they’re so fucked up that even their “insights” are ridiculously cold and hurtful. The other night, my SA made a HUGE deal of telling me that he no longer goes around “wanting to fuck every attractive woman” he sees. He said this very seriously, emphasizing that he’d been doing that HIS ENTIRE life and had NO IDEA that he was different. He thought ALL MEN did that–constantly scanned the environment and fantasized or stored “images” of women to fantasize about later. He was so proud of his progress, and I guess he should be. But all I could say in response was, “So this is supposed to make me feel better–that you no longer want to fuck every woman you SEE?!” And he said, “yes”–like duh.
That’s really true, Bev, about the considering the source and the insight garbage that Karen warned about.
So then Victoria’s left with either he didn’t really love her or he’s happy to let other people think he used her for the entire marriage or he’s incapable of really knowing what he did/why he did it/the impact of what he says and does.
I love the Maya Angelou quote: “The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them.” So who is he showing himself to be? Honestly, all the options suck, and there is no way to know the truth.
Which bring us to NAP. I think she’s got the answer.
Victoria- how are you doing?
Hi Victoria,
I just don’t think there’s every going to be anything they say that will help us to heal. I’m sorry you took another hit today, but I also think the sisters are correct in pointing out that even their insights aren’t necessarily accurate either.
It’s just so hurtful to look through their lens at your life together. You were in two different stories and there was no way for you to know that. Don’t get involved in the story he’s telling. He doesn’t even know what happened himself.
big hug
D.Victoria, where you said:
“Oddly, just the other day he confessed/revealed to me while he was crying that he doesn’t even enjoy having sex. Never has, because his performance issues were the only thing constantly on his mind, to the point he couldn’t enjoy it.” You could be writing about my SA exactly. He’s had neuroses around sex since he was a young teenager, and a self-fulfilling prophecy about impotence.
The thing your partner said to his SA group about thinking relationships were only for sex..This is just my opinion, but I don’t think he meant that. I don’t think he even knows what he means. Like my SA, I think he’s so muddled about sex that he’s literally got a mental illness around it. I know it’s near-impossible not to take it personally. It’s a lot easier said than done. What helps me sometimes is realizing that this illness long pre-dated me. And your partner’s neurosis pre-dates you. I am probably in the minority here, but I think it’s very likely that he does love you in his own way, and that your 100% certainty about certain aspects of your relationship was not wrong. But he’s so messed up..like they all are.. that one can’t make sense of any of it. It is so crazy-making. It messes with our whole sense of reality in general. We’re supposed to trust our gut, but there is a part of our gut that remains absolutely convinced that certain things about our relationship were real. Is it right? It might be. I just don’t know. I think time is the only thing that can help us reach some sort of stability about all this. Forgive my faulty memory, but when was your discovery day? Hang in there, sweetie, and keep talking about it here. You are so not alone in this surreal mess. xoxo
Dear Victoria,
I’m going to take abit of a different tact here and say if you don’t stop doing what you are doing…you are going to drive yourself completely mad? I am at a loss as to WHY you are continuing to speak to your partner…let alone search his stuff for yet more of his insanity? From what I understand he has done nothing but hurt you, does nothing to attempt reconciliation,has told you frankly he doesn’t love you and you have lived separate for quite some time. His family is deep in denial, you are threatening to send him to prison and he is threatening suicide in response. This is EXACTLY the sort of chaos and high emotion that occurs when you interact and allow yourself to be drawn into engagement with a mentally ill person. Eventually…you can become very ill yourself, Victoria and lose your way. I believe he is damaging you every single time you talk to him or have any contact with him. I would hope by now you would realise your only hope is to let him go. I mean really let him go. Get a divorce, stop ALL contact with him and preferably change locations before he destroys your own sanity. You are measuring your self worth based on what a very sick man is saying about you and your relationship. Why on earth would you internalize his twisted opinions, Victoria? The fact that he is completley incapable of loving anyone has NOTH*NG to do with your ability to be loved??? You are allowing him to define you and he is going to do what they ALL do…blame their partner for their own flaws and short comings. You are playing right into his hands and he is inflicting agonizing emotional pain on you with his bullshit revelations and insights. I know that he duped you and stole years of your life. All of us have experienced that monumental betrayal and we know how much it hurts. BUT….you are no longer in the dark. He has revealed who he is… repeatedly. You are now willingly and knowingly giving him your time and attention and allowing him access to wound you over and over again. Many women here are biding their time and still with their SA in some context….but many have developed some sort of self protective wall against the pain and manipulation. You seem wide open and defenceless, Victoria and that puts you in a very dangerous situation. I know you are hurting profoundly. Please think about what he is doing to you and consider removing yourself from him. It sounds like your relationship is over and he doesn’t seem to want to do anything to mend it. There is absolutly nothing you can do to change your past or make your relationship be what you thought it was. You must find proper support to help you accept the REALITY of what your 10 years with him actually was…not what you wish it was. Only then can you leave it and move on to something better. You are young and you can heal…not with a new man but by yourself. That way when the next man comes along (and he will come along) you will choose wisely and gain the love, respect and fidelity you so rightly deserve, dear heart. Please consider going no contact for a period and put ALL your energy into seeking out every possible avenue to help yourself break free of the emotional hell you are in. Said with concern and likely to get me flamed….. Love Karen xx
Dear Victoria,
I think you asked many good questions in your post. Like how do I ever accept or process this?
I don’t know. I don’t think we are able to comprehend the hurt and rejection, and we are not MEANT to do so.
If we are standing in front of someone who continually punches us in the face– what would we do about it?
We’d move. that’s for sure. without question.
you are not his emotional punching bag. he is lashing out all his crap on you.
move out of the way. so he can hit himself, or someone else, instead.
Victoria – he doesn’t know what he really thinks. he doesn’t know what he really feels right now. his perception of reality and of his own emotions, even of his past – is still distorted by his addiction and underlying personality disorder. try not to take this personally. it is not about you. i know it is devastating to hear this shit, and to question your entire reality, relationship, intimate connection… but truly your H sounds so disconnected from his emotions, he likely has no idea what he has ever felt. he says he doesn’t love you but in truth he is recalibrating his entire emotional state with a different relationship to his addictive behavior. it will be a long time, possibly years of recovery, before he figures out what he’s actually feeling. in the meantime, he’s a hurtful insensitive asshole. is it really helpful for you to stick around for this and to seek it out? you have been devastated enough. take care of YOU. take some space. get some clarity. he is repeatedly hurting you and traumatizing you. i was reading some S-anon literature earlier today and found this idea of spying as “pain shopping”. while i don’t agree that i am “seeking pain” when i have looked for stuff – i believe, as the trauma model states, that i am actually seeking a sense of reassurance and safety – the end result is often in fact painful. is it really worth it? ultimately my safety will not come from what he does or does not do. it will come from what i choose to do for myself and what i am able to achieve for myself through my own healing process.
i think the idea of no-contact is a good one. i have been toying with it myself. if permanent no contact seems like too much to commit to, commit yourself to 30 days. or at least two weeks. give yourself that gift of time for your own space and clarity without his stuff getting in the way. you will not lose anything by not talking to him for 2 weeks or even 30 days. i know it may be scary, and you may be afraid of losing him or pushing the relationship away. but the truth is, you don’t have much to lose right now. you have only to gain.Realizing what’s going on is one step.
Making new choices because of that realization is the next step.Elsewhere we have suggested as artemis does, that getting out from under the big black cloud makes it possible for you to think clearly again. Distance helps. Most of the women who do separate from living with their partners find they are able to relax, to breathe, to think clearly, and see their options and the implications.
Artemis suggests a short time frame to see. My opinion is that it sometimes takes longer than a week, because often we just suspend ourselves knowing that he’s coming back.
But I agree that not acting on the realizations you have is no healthy. We all must look after ourselves and be responsive to our own needs and requirements. I think it may have been heidi or claire who posted once about all the compromises made along the way, instead of acting for the things compromised. it just kept going until there was nothing left.diane – i agree that a month or a few weeks is a short time frame. but in my experience, once i get the first few weeks under my belt – it becomes easier to continue and i start to see the benefits of continuing no contact or establishing some boundaries around contact. i don’t know if this makes sense.
Victoria – I feel so sorry for what you are going through. As all of us can attest there is no pain like it, and we have lived and felt your pain. That is why it is so important to listen to what the sister’s tell you- it all comes from experience and not wanting to see another sister go through what we have.
The most difficult thing for me to accept in this entire SA thing was the fact my h was not capable of loving me, and he definitely was not the man I thought I fell in love with. We can’t wrap our minds around how narcissistic and self-centered they are-putting only themselves first. But, that is their MO. I also think that WE put so much love and emotion into the relationship that it is just US that are feeling the intimacy and they have been detached the entire time. It really gives us a false sense of security. My h admitted to me that our love-making was just sex for him – a hard pill to swallow. Unfortunately, love and intimacy is not in their vocabulary, but they can be very good at faking it, as you have now seen.
I hope you will make the decision to leave this poor facimile of a h of yours. They are always on a stage playing the part, but never ever leave the fantasy world of acting-they just won’t or they can’t.
Once I was able to detach from my h, everything became clear that I was dealing with a no win situation. And, once I separated (out of sight-out of mind) it became much easier, every day apart, to process that there was only one decision to make and that was divorce. We just can’t see the forest between the tree’s with all the trauma and drama. My therapist once asked me, “What would you do if your were in a burning house?” I told him get out. I always think what a great analagy he used to living the hell of being with an SA. That was the best thing he ever said to me. Turn all of your grief into anger and see clearly everything he has done to you. That will give you the motivation and energy to do what you have to do.
My love and prayers are with you as you process all of this, but you can’t do it as long as you are with him.
SharronWhat great posts by all of you ladies.
Victoria, how very heartbreaking. Who knows what’s going on in his pea brain? Reaching out and giving you a big hug right now — you are a beautiful soul deserving of so much love from the right people.
Aww, thank you sisters. Everything you have said means a lot to me.
My head has been hurting, so I stayed in bed for 15 hours with a constant headache. I feel wiped out emotionally, knocked down physically. Every time I even closed my eyes, I started having nightmare thoughts even before actually falling fully asleep.
Here’s his second paragraph, I didn’t include it before because I could only concentrate on that first quote re relationships being just for sex –
“Something I was actually talking to my sponsor about… now I can see the love, affection, caring, fidelity and everything my partner had towards me. Whereas before I got found out, I always questioned whether she loves me or not. It goes to show the sick thinking that this addiction brings. Unfortunently, she’s had to really suffer for me to see that. It boggles the mind, really. We were together for 9 years before she found out, so definitely a long time – I think if I had realized early on in our relationship, had come to that realization a lot earlier before I started escalating my addiction past porn, it would have been still quite rough but nothing as what it is now.”
He couldn’t understand that I loved him? I get it if that is just his insecurities, or even if it’s NPD as he’d truly feels like unlovable scum underneath, or perhaps those Patrick Carnes core beliefs of unlovable, and sex equals love, their most important need. But if that’s projection or blame, then that is such bullshit. I was a wonderful partner to him – not perfect – but very very very good. Maybe those that can’t fully love don’t recognize when they’re loved? I do believe heavy porn use can make men numb and oblivious to real human relationships. It is so destructive and damaging. I wish more people in the world could understand this, without having to go through this personally themselves.
It’s all just so retarded and messy. I wonder what normal men think of the “insights” our SA’s have? I wish I had normal men to talk about this with and get a healthy male perspective. Because now I worry if only females understand and feel love because we don’t have dicks?
It’s not that I think I’m unlovable in general, but it hurts being not loved by him, and I have started questioning if love is actually a real thing? Maybe it’s only experienced by a small percentage? Perhaps it’s not natural to humanity like I had always thought. I have lost faith in love.
I had spied to see if he was discussing any more suicide plans, like he did a couple of weeks ago about hanging himself, which wasn’t threats but actual planning he kept from me. Additionally, it was so I could confirm things he had said to me, because he told me he mentioned to his addicts friends how my experience has been similar to the Truman Show, and had recommended Barb Steffens book to fellow addicts who had stated they don’t believe their partners are co-addicts. I was double checking if this was true from him, which it was.
Plus, this week he told me there is a woman at his new job who has a “crush” on him, which has me feeling extremely uneasy. Co-worker stuff has been a big issue in the past. So I was understandibly curious if there was more details on that.
So it was a combination of concern, confirmation, and anxiety.
Now I’m starting to feel worried that what if he finds out about SOS and joins up to see my posts, and will find out I’ve spied. Maybe I’ll edit/delete the quoted stuff soon.
I’ll be back shortly though, with more to update you about, to explain more, and write back to the individual things brought up in each of all your posts.
You can always delete your posts if you are worried about that. I know in the beginning I did. It’s an option if you need it.
yes, it would be easy for them to join and spy on us wouldn’t it? i’m thinking of maybe changing my name…
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