Guilt?

Bev,

I am not far enough along this path to answer that with true perspective. That is also very personal. We have been stripped of the foundations of our relationships and wisely question building there again. YOU are not to blame for that. He is everything BUT a husband to you. If that is the core of your family, that is a huge deficit.

Bev,

I am not far enough along this path to answer that with true perspective. That is also very personal. We have been stripped of the foundations of our relationships and wisely question building there again. YOU are not to blame for that. He is everything BUT a husband to you. If that is the core of your family, that is a huge deficit.

no matter what happens this is so so so so sad! i wish i could take it away for you.

It is really amazing how we can be drawn into the drama of the SA/compulsive actually having to face the consequences of his actions. I have fallen down that rabbit hole so many times, and still do.
Bev, I”m hauling you out.

Yes, they may hate him. But i suspect that after time, they will learn to live with this man as their father. But why is it so terrible that he should have to face these consequences?
You have had to face them. YOur children will have to face them too. And so will he. Those are the consequences.

With you as their mother, your children will see a way to hold this hard truth and keep going. They will hurt and grieve but they rebuild and recalibrate. How do you think they will feel if they find this out ten years from now? Will it be better or worse? Then there will ten years of you keeping a secret like this and teaching them that’s you deal with this stuff. What does that serve?

How are our young men going to see consequences of this terrible compulsion if they don’t SEE consequences. If we allow it to look innocuous, and we show ourselves as women who will protect these guys and turn our own lives into lies, what are teaching about how to be a woman, and how to treat women?

I cried again today at everything my sons and I lost. It was precious to us. But I am full on into learning to live with loss, to change my own default settings, to create new opportunities in life, to show them we can find life and love even after we think its gone forever. This is the moment when we decide to trust that unknown future, to trust that the forces at work in the world are for good, that we can align ourselves with those forces in our religious or spiritual life, that the sadness we will carry will not always be the first voice that speaks, that just as the earth renews itself, just as the body was made to heal itself, our lives hold the capacity to receive new life and healing, and that it will be worth it.

Hope is in you. It’s in you. It’s in your children. It’s in him, but only he can prove it.

love you Bev, love you so much from my little desk on the second floor of my little faery cottage, looking out at the green bough that was barren for months and months and months.

i wish i could fast forward 100 years and see what changes in the world of SA. what needs to happen is more partners writing the books. opening treatment centres. treating the fucking SAs. there are too many SAs holding the strings out there.

bev, you have many options. we all do.

the kids are hurting now because you are hurting. whatever you do, it will be right for them, because it will be right for you. that is THE most important thing. what is right for you. you are the sane parent. you are their rock, their anchor to the world of truth.

it’s good that they love their dad, and he them. that won’t change.

try not to let guilt cloud your vision, you are not responsible for this mess. unfortunately, our job is to make the best of the mess we were given.

but your kids know you love them!!! they will be ok, no matter what you decide. unfortunately we will never be able to sheild them (even if we don’t tell them) from who their fathers are.

damn, i wish we didn’t have kids with these fuckers…

Dearest Bev,

I know how you feel. My H is doing very well in recovery and it’s been almost two years. We still live in the same house, separate rooms. I know he’s ready to get intimate and move on. I am not. Though he says he understands that my recovery will take much longer than his I can tell that he’s wanting to move forward.

We don’t have kids involved, ours are grown and gone. But we have a different problem, as you know, the fact that he was arrested and we are still awaiting trial. If they find him guilty of possessing child porn, then he will go away for a while. I have to be prepared for that and so, I’m in no hurry to make a decision to divorce or not.

For you, I can imagine the guilt you feel regarding your children and divorce as my first marriage ended with me giving over physical custody of my son. It hurt like hell, but I did have my visitation on Weds. nights and every other weekend. My son was only 6 years old and he took it very hard. We immediately put him in counseling and he responded very well. My point is that it can be done, but you must be there for them, more than ever before. You must keep a watchful eye for signs of distress and be sure to get them any and all support they might need, because, after all, they did not ask for this. I felt horrible and that divorce is a whole other story, but my ex was not an SA.

This situation is very different for me, especially since I’m 53 and he’s 56. My Mom is coming to visit (from Florida) and she does not know anything about what I’ve been through the last 2 years. I’m contemplating whether to clue her in or just let it be. She’s 80 years old and has recently gone through a horrible ordeal with her house being broke into. TV stolen, credit cards and personal checks also stolen. Tons of money missing from her checking account and excessive charges appearing on her credit card statements. Come to find out, it was her grandaughter. She raised that little girl from age 5 when neither my brother of SIL could. Mom sent her to Catholic school, served at the snack bar during football games where granddaughter was cheerleader, I could go on and on for what she did for that child and that’s after raising 4 kids of her own. Turns out, granddaughter is addicted to oxycontin and cocaine and now she’s in jail. How could I possibly tell her my story and all about my pain when she’s experiencing so much pain herself. Ugggg I hate what these guys have done to us. I shouldn’t even have to have this dilemma.

Anyway, I didn’t mean to talk about myself on your thread.

Please know how much I love you and care about you. I understand your feelings and I know you will make the right decision.

Much love, Claire

Dear Bev,

Well, I am really proud of you. you are addressing what you need. even though it hurts.

I liked all posts here – really loved Diane’s advices. especially “. But why is it so terrible that he should have to face these consequences?
You have had to face them. YOur children will have to face them too.”

i feel like stupid stephanie carnes and other CSAT advice, is that we somehow “spare” the SA via forgiveness, rebuilding.

we can and do forgive them in time i think. but for many of us, we can never rebuild, or just will not consider rebuilding with such an unrelaible and ill person. i mean if someone was a heroin addict for 20 years and was 2 months sober– would you date them? hell to the no. x 10. right?

so why is it our responsibility to dismiss or minimize, even if they are currently sober? there’s nothing wrong with consequences. often times, it is the most loving thing we can do for an addict. leaving them, that is. it forces them to look at themselves. and helps us heal too.

i like your plan. lie. — let him think there can be reconiliation down the road–you’ll get a much better deal and cooperation from him. and the space you need, you so desperately need, to try the unknown–and perhaps give a life a chance to show you what your made of. you are diamond Bev– a gem. sparkle again. just sparkle.

love you

btw Bev, i think you H is truly devastated and crying because he has to face what he’s done. and i wonder, if begging to keep you is begging so that he can save face. suspend his punishment, if you will. buy time. buy anything. and if the world won’t revolve around his 30 day sober walk? well, why should it? why should it–damn it?

The little ones i am sure will be hurt. but they adjust Bev. it’s not easy, but youth really is an amazing thing– their emotions seem to settle quicker, and they seem to accept, what is.

even if the kids don’t know a thing– and it is a shock for them–they will do well, eventually. they will, because you will. it works like that.

don’t let his dramatics sway you from the truth. he is in desperate mode.

but your not. you have your feet on the ground. and you are thinking clear Ms.Scarlett.

Bev, I’d just like to toss in that, during the first year, Greg was super humble, contrite, enthusiastic about recovery. He spoke softly and kept his head down. He didn’t do his usual class clown, center-stage routine. He dropped the charming boy act. He read the books and went to meetings. Etc, etc. After that year, he started tapering off on the meetings, became animated socially again, and within a few months, the meetings stopped, the therapy stopped, and he “was cured.” In the NEXT year and a half, he eventually turned back into the same old asshole, just “sober” (If he was)–to the point that I told him if he didn’t get back into recovery, I was filing for divorce. You know the rest of the story. I’m 4 years post-D-Day, living with my ex-husband, who started back into meetings, etc. AFTER I filed (because he doesn’t do ANYTHING for me, only for himself. He didn’t want to move out, so he started back). There’s been no progress with the new therapist who says he studied under Minwalla. And now, once again, I’ve told him he has to leave.

I’m sorry you’re going through this, Bev. From reading your posts, you seem to be a very strong, call it as you see it type of women, with a wicked sense of humor. I have faith that you’ll know what to do.

Bev, the books certainly do sugarcoat, gloss over, and make it all sound so easy. It makes me angry too. There needs to be REAL books published for partners that deal with the true nitty gritty of daily life that you mentioned with our trauma, as well as the abuse and violations, and what hell to expect/how to cope if they never choose recovery.

I understand you feel guilty about not embracing his efforts… perhaps it will help you cope with the guilt by focusing on the fact that whether we care or not care about their recovery efforts, it makes no difference at the end of the day. Caring doesn’t change anything. Their recovery will NEVER be enough to heal our pain, wounds, and trauma. And they will always still do what they want to do, whether we embrace their recovery or not.

In saying that though, hopefully this won’t happen, but the one thing perhaps to prepare for, because I experienced this myself with my SA’s first relapse… is if your H relapses – and most of them do – or if he falls completely off the cliff giving up on recovery entirely like many of ours have, you may start beating yourself up with even more guilt for not caring the first time when he was in real recovery. I know I went through that, just thinking DAMN why wasn’t I more grateful/thankful/appreciative etc about his recovery then, and that I’d do anything for him to be back at that point where he was once at – even though at the time it wasn’t enough. Does that make sense?

About the SAs who think that once they’re doing good recovery work and have sobriety, our pain should stop and we should all be feeling happier/better/back to our old selves… now I’m not trying to be all “S-Anon” here, but a partner from their email group once posted this paragraph from the AA book, and it always stayed with me because I thought the analogy was good… at least as a way to somewhat explain to them that just because you’ve stopped, it doesn’t take away the massive destruction and damage that you’ve caused.

“The alcoholic [SA] is like a tornado roaring his way through the lives of others. Hearts are broken. Sweet relationships are dead. Affections have been uprooted. Selfish and inconsiderate habits have kept the home in turmoil. We feel a man is unthinking when he says that sobriety is enough. He is like the farmer who came up out of his cyclone cellar to find his home ruined. To his wife, he remarked, “Don’t see anything the matter here, Ma. Ain’t it grand the wind stopped blowin’?” — AA’s Big Book

Bev,

I can feel your pain with every post. In a word – this sucks.

Everyone goes through the stages of grief at a different pace. I do see a lot of anger in your posts. Anger is good in that it is self-protection. You value yourself which is very healthy.

I have heard and read that sometimes partners can get stuck in intense “anger” for too long. It can affect their lives going forward. You are so new to this, so I doubt that is the case. Trust that you will move to a place of peace at some point.

I think getting space is so very important. You are so protective of your kids that I think you have suffered as a result. The kids know that something is up and will be relieved when you tell them. I know the experts may not agree, but I personally think that children can handle knowing that their father had an affair or two (maybe not 20). My SAH told our 11 year son that he had an affair and has a “problem” that he is working on. Our son was relieved. My SAH apologized to him which really helped him. Remember – our SAH not only hurt us, but the kids. IMO, secrets are toxic. I have seen that in so many families. I think that most kids over the age of 11 have seen programs about affairs, etc. and can handle it – but it depends on their maturity level. Kids tend to try and blame themselves when things are amiss with mommy and daddy – an age appropriate answer will help them realize it has nothing to do with them.

When I was at Minwalla’s intensive – I KNEW that I needed space. On the way home from the airport, I cried knowing that I was going home to my SAH. Yet I didn’t do it for the sake of the kids. I really wish that I would have listened to what *I* needed instead of the kids. I alternated between reading books, SOS and crying every night on the sofa while he blissfully slept. Things are better now – but that was hell. I would do it differently.

I’m glad that you are calling Minwalla. He gets us – and what we need to heal. This is not an quick journey. I wish it was.

Big hugs to you (and your kids)

Deb