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so SA has been out of the house for 6 weeks now, has a new apartment, new lease, gave me keys to his new place, GPS locator on his phone, all passwords to email/facebook/linkedin, etc. going to 2 meetings a week. working on a sobriety plan. seeing a therapist. trying to find a sponsor.
he does NOT have keys to my place. i have some buffer and that helps me feel safer. him having access to my space is totally out of the question.about 3 weeks ago we made a set of agreements and one of my agreements was that i basically said i would give him two months before going to no contact if my boundaries are not violated. so i’m in a 2 month holding pattern, where i’ve agreed to minimal contact, but we definitely see each other still and are in communication.
another one of the agreements is a full disclosure in the presence of both our therapists. i’m working on my disclosure worksheet for my CSAT and fuck! this is all just so gross. why do i have to even think about shit like what level of details i would want to know??? what is there to negotiate about right and wrong?
i want to give up. i do not want this life. i want to break my agreement.i won’t do it, but i just need to vent in a safe space. i am terrified of the disclosure. besides my fear that he will only tell me what he thinks i suspect, i think i am most afraid that the truth will be awful but somehow not awful enough. does that even make sense?
i don’t even know what i feel for this man anymore. i’m not sure i can remember what real trusting love feels like. i hate that.
i am not sure why i’m even getting a disclosure when i feel so ambivalent about the relationship.
one of the things that is most heartbreaking is that with all of this shit in place, GPS and passwords and all that – fuck, i never wanted to live this way, and i *still* don’t trust him. just having a bad “reality check” kind of day. this is not the way i want to live!!! i don’t know if i can do this under the best of circumstances.
i am really trying to make it through these two months with as much grace and integrity as possible. no more slapping, scratching, namecalling, threatening to leave. but it is driving me fucking crazy that he sees that coworker every day.
i know this post is not that eloquent but this disclosure worksheet and what it implies is just freaking me out.
does anyone have wisdom to share on disclosure? how do i prepare myself to be as clear as i can going into this process? am i supposed to be clear about what my dealbreakers would be if they are disclosed? how, when so many deals have already been broken? somehow i am still here.
You know, when my SA was at inpatient therapy for 3 weeks, Dr. Minwalla called me and asked me if I wanted to do a “full disclosure”. At first I wasn’t even sure what the hell that was so he clued me in and my first reaction was “no”. I found out just 5 weeks previous about SA’s secret double life, so I was still in shock and full of despair. I explained to him how traumatizing just the discovery was, and dealing with all the awful thoughts of past memories and realizing now I know why he said/did the things he did. All I could think of is that I couldn’t handle any more of his truth (if that makes any sense). The Dr. asked me to tell him everything I knew about my SA’s behavior and then he told me that there was so much more I was unaware of and that it was pretty bad stuff. While for a split second, I was curious to know, I still adamantly said “no” to full disclosure. Why would I want to hurt myself more than I was already hurting.
My SA is doing very well. Still going to one meeting a week, still seeing a therapist, still seeing a psychiatrist for his meds and I haven’t caught him doing anything he’s not supposed to. We are still in separate rooms and I don’t know how long it will be that way. I guess as long as I want it that way. He seems to be content and letting me call the shots and he doesn’t want to leave me. And I realize that the longer I stay distant from him, the higher the chance he will want to go back to his old ways, but it is what it is. It’s in God’s hands now.
I guess what I’m trying to say to you is to go with your gut feelings. If you don’t want to do disclosure right now, then don’t. You can always do it later. Or never. It’s totally up to you.
I don’t think I’ve helped you much but I wish you all the best and I hope you can find some peace in your life soon.
Much love, Claire
HI Artemis,
I totally understand your mixed feelings about everything. It IS totally outrageous that anyone should have to be thinking about this kind of shit and figuring out GPS etc.I deeply resent that the therapeutic models try to normalize this insanity, as if you can have a real relationship with someone at the same time as you are tracking their vehicles, monitoring their phones, and making sure they keep their polygraph appts. etc. etc. etc. This is why I believe that these models turn perfectly normal women into co-dependents and co-addicts. It wasn’t the life for me. And I also didn’t want all this horrible story of his deceit, penis activities, possibly criminal acts, lies etc living articulately inside my life.
That’s just how it all works for me. I respect that others don’t find this kind of thing as personally destructive as I do. I’m no good at sharing my life with someone who isn’t an equal partner. If disease or accident had changed those dynamics it would be different. But these were all his choices, every time. He chose to deepen his secret life, escalate and entrench his penis world, and had multiple opportunities to get help and chose to protect his penis life more than to protect me, our marriage, our children, our home, our financial security etc etc etc.
So I have no interest in knowing any of it. I have no interest in staying with a liar for the rest of my life. I deserve better.
In these years since separating all that I have learned about him just confirms my decision. Just yesterday my eldest son told me how he ended up with one of his father’s white shirts by mistake and how he had to mail it back to him because it was a $180.00 dollar shirt. That fucker wears $180.00 shirts!
Meanwhile I’m shopping at Winners and waiting for Land Ends 40% off with free shipping days. He, apparently, is worth everything and anything. The rest of us, not so much.So every decision I’ve made to distance myself from his sick life, sick story etc. has been proven to be the right one.
Claire’s right, go with your intuition and gut.
Artemis, if I remember you are not married and don’t have children with this man. If I were in your shoes I would run
Like fuck and not look back. Id know enough to know this man doesn’t deserve me and I am better off without it. But only you know what was in that relationship for you.
Only you know if you want a relationship with him.
Hard call but too much detail is bad but then the devil is in the detail. When you open that box and look at the contents, believe me they will not go back in without one hell of a fight. You will be forever changed by what you hear and see. If its bad now, I suspect it will only get worse.Sorry it’s not more encouraging but I fear the worst.
Oh Artemis, it all just really sucks. Really no other way to look at it. You wrote, “i want to give up. i do not want this life. i want to break my agreement.” Sister, in my book, from here on out, YOU get to call all the shots. YOU get to decide if and when you want a disclosure, if and when you walk away. You don’t owe your SA a damn thing.
artemis,
disclosure was painful for me. but i’m glad i did it. i found out information that i didn’t know that gave me power. i’ve mentioned this before.
DA always said that because we weren’t having sex/there was tension in the relationship, he acted out with other people.
well, i found out that wasn’t true, that he got 300-500 lap dances in a period when we were ‘happy.’ that gave me power. he can no longer say his acting out had anything to do with me. now i always knew that, but now i have irrefutable proof.
it depends what you want, i think. i wanted to be able to rewrite my life, to know wtf was really going on for the past 22 years. and i wanted him to say it, in front of me, with a witness (the therapist).
now, i was completely overwhelmed by the two hours of information, and i can’t remember most of it because i was in shock.
so we are going back, so i can ask questions.
i also asked him to calculate what he spent in the last 22 years, and that we will set up an account in my name only with this amount.
i feel more of the truth is power for me. (notice i didn’t say the truth, i don’t think he disclosed everything, maybe 80 or 90 percent).
some people say that disclosure is a chance to start over. not for me really, but what i learned has helped me understand just how fucked up my partner is.
i said that if there were any lies or omissions in the disclosure, that would be a deal breaker. thinking that might make him tell more of the truth…
for me the disclosure isn’t really about staying or going, it was more about accountability.
what the fuck did you actually do, asshole…!
Hi Artemis. I’ve been wrestling with this notion of disclosure too. I want to know what has happened over the past however many years it’s been (I don’t even know that). I want to be able to put what he did in context with what was happening in our lives. And like Lisa said, it’s important from an accountability perspective. You did it, now own it. Don’t tell me we should just put it behind us. My H is completely balking on making any sort of disclosure which makes me think there is A LOT of shit that I don’t know about. For me, I have to know in order to decide whether I’m staying or going. And I’m also wrestling with what sort of life I want to lead. Do I want to spend the rest of my life either blindly trusting him or having to constantly monitor him? Neither seems like a good life but what are my alternatives? I just don’t know. I know I’m not giving you any helpful answers here but I did want you to know you are not alone in trying to sort this all out. I’m out there on the limb with you!
Love,
DaisyYeah, that bullshit about disclosure being a chance to start over… why the hell do these pricks think they deserve a ‘do over’ when they’ve fucked our lives up beyond any chance of repair?
Artemis, I don’t think you should have to state what your “deal breakers” are in advance. Wait and see how you feel after the disclosure. What I would say is that if you get a single whiff of dishonesty or holding back you are done. That would be the only deal breaker I would disclose in advance.
Artemis, I say go for the disclosure full throttle. You are not married and do not have kids. If the disclosure is what it takes to convince you to bolt then do it.
Please do not think I believe the Pain is minimized just because you are not married or don`t have kids. The pain is just as intense. Your entanglements are easier to break.
If you decide to give him any chance after disclosure then you will know exactly what you are dealing with…
I`m sorry you are in this mess…..I wish none of us were…
I support you no matter what you decide and please remember you can choose this or not on your own timetable.Thank you all for your responses so far. This is one of those days i wish we were all neighbors so we could go get a beer and talk about the madness. it’s a beautiful sunny day here in Oakland & it’s almost happy hour!
i do believe i have the right to know what has happened over the course of our relationship. i believe he owes me the truth, he owes me reality. i just don’t know how much reality he is capable of sharing or what he is capable of understanding as a violation of what i thought we shared.i also don’t know how much further down this rabbit hole i want to go. at some point when he’s come through with what he owes me i feel like i owe him too. and i don’t want to be in the position of owing him anything.
i get the part of never being able to undo learning what i learn… the stuff that stays in the brain… in some ways though i feel that knowledge may be the best chance i have of leaving this relationship in total peace.oh, bev, you were writing what i was thinking.
and i think the dishonesty/omission thing is a good threshold to consider for dealbreakers – thanks for that, daisy & lisa.I have to disagree with you on one point Artemis, you owe him NOTHING!! That ship sailed when he decided to think with his dick instead of his head or his heart. Whatever you give him from this point on is a gift on your part, not something he has earned or deserves or is owed.
Artemis,
I have never had a formal disclosure, so I can’t answer most of your questions.
But I do know too much from my discoveries. And it’s traumatic, terrible, horrifying. I am glad I know so I can protect my kids and I have evidence for my divorce.
But you can walk away and never have to know. Never have that knowledge burned into your brain. Never have details that make it too easy to imagine. Never know specific dates and places so that your memories are forever tainted.
I totally support you in your decision whatever it is. But you need to be aware that knowing comes at a cost. Is what you hope to gain worth it?
If I were you knowing what I know now, I would walk away, artemis. And never look back. Save those brain cells for happier times to come.
I am so sorry for the hell you are going through, and I know your pain isn’t less than because you aren’t married.
This disclosure thing is good for me. I want to know. It empowers me. Knowledge is power. I completely understand your ambivalence and frustration with the whole entire relationship. I absolutely do not want to keep track of my husband in any way. The hell with that nonsense. He wants me to police him. Forget it. I’ve got better things to do with my life.
i totally get the anxiety toward isclosure. while i never had a formal one with csat, exsah confessed one night and it was a pretty full disclosure. one that changed the course of my life.
if you decide you know enough today, with gps trackers and all the other stuff that goes with being in relationship with one of these guys, you are justified in going to no contact today. he did not abide by any deal from beginning. why are you on the hook for 2 months? you owe nothing. you can let him down easy, and find 100 more reasons to go in discosure. or, you can drop him like potato today. either way, the same result will happen. you don’t need to be held anywhere you dont’ want to. but if you want the extra time also, then that’s different. cause that’s for you. you cannot break a deal, when there’s been no trust or deal to be broken. you have a lying manipulative cheating boyfriend. who is an SA. it’s different. just cause you are trustworthy and stand by your word, don’t expect it from him. expect nothing.
i know some sisters have found disclosure empowering and beneficial. for me, it just seemed insult to injury. and i had had enough pain. but everyone is different on this, and you deserve what is right for you. take courage.
Artemis, your post *is* eloquent. Here we are, on pins and needles as if we’re watching a scary movie, waiting to hear the horrible betraying things that the person who is supposed to be our life partner and best friend did. None of us expects a perfect relationship, but my God, this is just torture. I think I became something of a masochist in the early disclosure days. I felt like I needed to know every damn detail..which is impossible anyway. And I discovered things piece by tortuous piece over the last year and it was hell. I wish I had good advice for you, but the whole thing just absolutely sucks. I don’t remember if you have kids at home or not? Because if not, my advice would be to chuck it and get on with your life without him. I know that’s easier said than done, kids or not. Hell, I don’t have children at home, and I’m still in limbo. You’re not alone, hon. Lean on us..We know only too well what this torture is like. xoxo
I don’t have the answer for you Artemis. I understand that you don’t want this life. It is not a life well lived- being hooked to one of these takers. I wish you would just run…far away from this depravity and insanity but I know you have to make your own journey. Perhaps disclosure would help you make the leap to no contact…I don’t know. Sending srenght
Karen xx
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