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Hello all,
I’m in bed with the flu so lots of time to write. After 3 weeks of just about hiding in her room, our 13 year old daughter, Katie, decided to have a few friends over for a sleep over. My husband and I were thrilled. We were really worried about her. She’s been depressed, having outbursts and really misses her friends in CA.
Anyway – my husband went into her room to clean up and he found a letter that she had written to us. She talked about how she needs to let us know that she has been cutting herself.
She said it all started when my husband binged 2 years ago (the beginning of D-day for me). She said that the pain was too great for her (although she very stoic and told me to kick him out – she was obviously in pain). He was staying out of the house several nights a week (to “find himself” = screwing his latest granny). I believed it – my kids rolled their eyes when he said that and they used to say Dad is at (quote marks with their fingers) “Phil’s” tonight. (kids are smart).
Anyway – she went on to say in her letter (in her drawer) that she then cut herself again this past summer when we talked about moving to SC (due to my SAH’s medical disability). I saw a reference to cutting in her diary (unbenowst to her) last month and took her to a therapist but she claimed she wasn’t doing it. Well – this last letter states that she cut herself deeply in mid-Dec. (when I was in CA packing up the house) to the point that there was a gaping wound. She did it to “feel that she was alive” given that she is so numb from the pain of moving. She moved from her arms (because we started to look there, given what we knew and that her friends in the past had done it) – and she said that she moved to her thighs.
She has her friends over tonight – but we are going to talk to her tomorrow and help her find a therapist to help her with this. It’s so scary….!!!
The last time she did it her letter said that she called me in CA and was crying and said that she did something “horrible”. I asked her what it was and she said that she couldn’t tell me. I asked her if she hurt herself and she said no. Then I found out that she hit her sister and also kicked a hole in the wall downstairs so I thought that’s what she was referring to.
It’s scary – I hope that we can get her some good help…. Please say a little prayer for my daughter Katie. God bless her.
Deb
Oh Deb – my heart breaks for you and precious Katie. I’m so glad that you are aware of the issue and can get her the help she needs. I will say some extra prayers for you and her tonight.
Hugs, FC
Deb,
Prayers x 10. Poor baby. From your posts, I’m gathering that you’re all getting help…oh, except F him. He’s a lost cause, but there is hope for the rest of you.
((Hugs)) to you and sweet Katie – Amy
Your H should burn in hell. Fuck him and all his “little boy” issues. Fuck therapy and recovery and everything else. You need to get his ass out of your lives and work on you and those precious kids. I will say prayers for sweet Katie.
oh, Deb, that is heartbreaking. i will pray for Katie and for your family. i am glad you are focused on getting her help. i don’t have any words of wisdom here but want you to know that you & Katie will be in my thoughts and prayers. i know you are clear about where your priorities need to be.
oh deb,
how terrible – please get your daughter some help. and keep a copy of that letter in a safe place. it shows how your Hs activities affect your children.
love to her and you
lisa
I couldn’t agree more, Bev.
My eating disorders and cutting started from crap my SA dad did (custody battle, telling me to run away from home, etc.). My mom wasn’t able to help me because she was too walled off and emotionally detached because she was molested by her SA dad. I never cut my arms, only thighs bc no one could see.
Deb, I don’t know the right thing to do but I do know the wrong thing to do is figure she will outgrow it or it will work itself out. She needs to know she can reach out to people who love her and will be there for her. I would find someone good with CBT and adolescents. And don’t feel like you need to talk to her so much as listen to her and let her feel your presence.
I am so glad she opened up to you and asked for help. That was a very brave thing she did. And she called you, even if she wasn’t able to get it all out. She wants help, she is taking steps towards self-care. Those are really good signs. She is scared and wants her mom.
Screw ahole. He is taking up too much of your time and energy that you and the kids deserve and need.
Praying for you all tonight Deb. I am so sorry for Katie. Life is just so hard right now for all of you.
Dear Deb,
I can only imagine how sick you must feel over your daughter’s self-harm. Certainly get her to a therapist asap. You and your children have paid a terrible price for the chaos of your husband’s behaviours. You are unable to protect yourself or them from the fall out as long as you live with him. It seems that your daughter knows no one is in control anymore. No one will draw the line. I know you love her, Deb. What is your boundary on the negative effects on your children? How much more than this has to happen? I’ve given up pleading for your safety. But please, for your children’s sake stop the insanity of your household and ask him to leave. You are the only adult in the household left to help her. Please stand up for her.Oh Deb, like Diane said, it (like every other fucking thing apparently) is on your shoulders. Please for the love of God listen to your sisters if just this once! Kick that lazy, lying, malingering MFPOS husband of yours out of the house NOW.
Prayers for you all, Deb. Katie is reaching out to you, she loves you and believes in you. We are behind you, while you do what you have to, for your children.
Wow Deb, I don’t know how you do it. Now this. Your poor daughter must be in so much pain. It’s good that you are now aware of how serious the situation is and can get her help.
Praying for you and your kiddies ( especially Katie )
Hello all,
Her cutting started with my SAH’s binge 2 years ago – but her BIG issue right now (according to her) is the move that we made from CA to SC in Sept. We talked to her about it tonight and she says she just needs to be her friends and will NEVER like it here. I know that they were her support system during the binge, etc.
I know you guys are trying to protect me and think that my SAH is the root of all evil, but right now, for our daughter it’s the move that is her major concern. She says she HATES it here and everything about it – the people, the school, the this, the that. She misses her tight knit group of friends in CA. She has made friends here – but she says they are just not the same.
I’m so glad that she can reach out to me – and I know she is suffering – and I want to make things better for her – but I know that given the cost of living, it’s going to be tougher for our family in CA than here. She says that we aren’t trying hard enough and although she knows that her Dad is taking time off to recover from his seizures and trying to do a job that he couldn’t do – she soooo misses her friends. The rub is that the rest of us like it more here….the relaxed lifestyle, etc. I have tried to explain that to her, but she doesn’t want to hear it and just thinks that we aren’t trying hard enough.
So – I’m so torn. Part of me wants to go back to CA (our furniture is still there in storage) and get back into the rat race for 4 to 6 years until she (and her siblings) are out of high school. I hate seeing her so miserable. Part of me wants to find a really cute guy here and pay him off to distract her (hey – I’m being creative ;-)) – and part of me wants to wait it out in the hopes that she can adjust here.
Her Dad is much more involved with her and the kids now since he’s not working – which is a good thing. He’s not working his recovery as hard and as fast as I’d like but he’s not acting out (that I know of) and he’s making some positive steps.
I wish the answer was clear.
I will start calling therapists tomorrow (she finally agreed to go to one – she protested and said that they don’t help – but did agree to go to one). I told her as her mother, my responsibility is her healthy and safety and so I’m just doing my job.
Thanks for the prayers everyone. It’s so darned hard to see our kids hurting…isn’t it?
Deb
What Diane said reminded me of what my girlfriend told me last night when we were out to dinner. I was telling her about how my son asked me about some “adult terms” he had been hearing from a snowbirds’s 10 year-old (thank God they’re not here year-round!). She said, there has to be one safe parent – one the kids know they can go to for the calm response, honesty and care that they need. This friend’s ex is a bonafide psycho so she ought to know. Her kids are very well-adjusted (so far) especially considering what they’ve been through.
We can’t control everything – whatever may be happening in school, what her dad does…but we can always remind them that they have a safe parent to go to when they have a question or problem. Keep your cool with her and reinforce that you are the safe parent. He is obviously not.
And maybe she shouldn’t knows how f’d up her dad is. Not sure she does, but I’d recommend keeping that from her. No benefit in her knowing – just pain.
Just my midnight two cents that I hope make sense. I’m in your corner, Deb. with new glove And a new mouth guard for you!
Movin On – I really need to find my mouth guard. I have lost two teeth (I have two fake ones up front) from grinding them from all the stress from my SA.
In the midst of my SAH’s last binge 2 years ago, she got exposed to some not so great stuff (him coming out of a bar with a blonde floosy). I’m so sorry about that. Oh – and we were stalked by his granny fuck buddy. (OMG – was this my life!!!!????). That was two years ago. They can see that their Dad goes to his “men’s groups” and he has told our son about his SA (which I’m sure the kids have talked about) but other than her life being turned upside down by moving – all is relatively quiet on the Western Front.
Deb
Deb,
This is a long shot, but it has been done in my family before with better than expected results. I have a hard time even suggesting it, but in the interest of your daughter’s mental and physical health I’ll step out on that limb. Please don’t think it’s because I have doubts about you and your ability to work this out. You’re just stretched too thin. I DO have doubts about your SA, and his keeping on the straight and narrow, and what another binge might do to your family. And your daughter is clearly on the edge.
Is there a very close friend’s family, or a family of yours, that your daughter could stay with in CA? For whatever time she feels she needs to transition?
Lots of logistics and concerns in that situation, of course. It may be something you wouldn’t even consider. Sounds extreme on the outset, to me, your child living clear across the country. But, I do know of teenagers who have done this for various reasons, and it worked as a short term solution that kept the teens from going off the edge.
Might as well chime in, for what it’s worth. From the numerous and varied posts you write, Deb, there’s NOTHING quiet on the Western front. It hasn’t been quiet for some time. Between your h fucking grannies and probably the dog next door, the seizures, the job loss, the drastic move, the nanny issues, the fact that you leave regularly for intensives and workshops and whatever, there has been no peace or stability for anyone. DON’T pack up and move your whole family back across the country. Everywhere you go, there you are. Show your kids that you can make a real decision and stick with it. Then, create an environment that is peaceful and routine and LACKING in chaos, where your struggling daughter can get her bearings and deal with NORMAL life stresses, such as the move. Get yourselves financially and emotionally stable. Get your daughter some counseling—and don’t let yourself get talked out of that. Put one foot in front of the other and do what needs to be done. Kicking him out would be a great first step, but if you’re unable to, at least IGNORE HIS SORRY, GOOD-FOR-NOTHING ASS. I don’t believe for a second that he’s really more engaged with his children. He’s got nothing better to do, so he’s around more. Give him a medal.
I am so glad March said what she did. The fact that you are saying “It’s quiet on the Western Front” says a lot about. This hell has become normal for you. You are so close to it that you cannot see it.
I totally agree that wherever you end up–SC or CA–it should be you and your children.
Just because Katie said she is cutting now because of the move, don’t assume that it has nothing to do with your home situation, the continuing presence of the reason she started cutting in the first place. Do not rationalize that it has nothing to do with SA. She cut herself deeply when you were away. Her dad was there!
I will be praying for God’s help for her, for guardian angels to stand guard, for his Holy Spirit to clearly direct you. I will be praying for God’s strength for you, for wisdom and His clear light to shine in the darkness and reveal all that he needs to reveal to you. I will pray for strength for you to step out and do what God directs you to do to protect you, Katie, and your other children. Please do not be afraid to listen and act. A wise counselor told me, when I was in the middle of all of the SA stuff with my now X living in the house, that I should pray, “Thy will be done.” I did, over and over like a mantra. Seek His will.
You will be my continual prayer today.
Sunny
This is what you wrote, Deb:
“She said it all started when my husband binged 2 years ago (the beginning of D-day for me). She said that the pain was too great for her (although she very stoic and told me to kick him out – she was obviously in pain). He was staying out of the house several nights a week (to “find himself” = screwing his latest granny). I believed it – my kids rolled their eyes when he said that and they used to say Dad is at (quote marks with their fingers) “Phil’s” tonight. (kids are smart).”
It doesn’t matter whether the move increased her sense of invisilbility and powerlessness. It matters that she’s in in crisis that is directly related to the chaos that exists in her family life due to a partially functioning and deeply conflicted father on disability and an overstressed mother who has been betrayed and humiliated, sleeps at night with a man who calls out other women’s names even in his sleep, and is left to try and keep the chaos from blowing up in their faces. I think it blew, Deb.
Deb,
Here’s my take on it based on what I went through which in some ways is very similar to what your daughter is going through. I turned to my friends as a support system because my family was too fucked up and I couldn’t ground myself with them. I didn’t know who to turn to or what to do when I was overwhelmed with emotional pain. The physical pain was something I could point to, I could feel, and I could stop. I couldn’t totally get that with people because, let’s face it, a bunch of adolescents don’t know how to handle this and a 13 year old does not have to self-awareness or maturity to be able to fully understand and articulate what she is going through anyway. I could distract myself with my friends. However as soon as they weren’t available, the pain invariably came back.Just letting your daughter be with her friends may provide some temporary relief but for the long haul, she needs to have a better support system and skills for coping that do not involve hurting herself.
I hope this is clear: a bunch of 13 year olds is not enough of a support system. And I would much rather have you send dumb ass away than your daughter, although if you keep him around then maybe it would be better to at least get her off the sinking ship.
I really believe she needs a stable home and adults she can depend on. She came to you, and that is great. Now she needs to know you will respond reliably and confidently. Which does not mean that you have to have all the answers, but she needs to know that you have a plan for finding them. And that you love her. Not just in words but by your actions.
Deb, the chaos in your family was directly caused by your SA. It sounds like it has been nonstop ever since. Do not let him off the hook here. He is a tornado of constant chaos with his seizures, SA, etc. Do not overthink this (and I know that’s really hard not to do).
I’m telling you what took me years to figure out and tons of therapy. CBT and a healthy stable support system. Knowing how to reach out to people I could trust. Knowing how to ride the wave of emotions, that the emotions will end given time. Learning positive, constructive coping skills (ex, weight lifting gives you the same controlled pain and release as cutting and is much better for you). Knowing it is okay to feel the emotions and that they are normal given what one has been through (that I wasn’t going crazy or something was wrong with me). She needs you to walk beside her right now, Deb.
Stop the dumbass circle crap and the intellectualizing problems and just be there with her.I don’t mean to sound harsh, but I feel very strongly about this. You are a good mom and a good person, but you are dealing with way too much for any one human being. And you are somewhere new so you don’t have the support that you would have somewhere you had lived for years. I feel for what you are going through, but this is a child. I don’t mess around when it comes to kids. Please listen to the sisters.
Thanks you guys. You are so right. I am trying to minimize the effects of SA and putting all the blame on the move. There is other stuff, no doubt. And they can probably sense when I’m off balance, even if I try to hide it.
Sunny – I will say “thy will be done” over and over again. I hope it helps. Our daughter did tell my SAH that she cut herself deeply when I was gone because she had an outburst and he took her phone away and sent her to her room…..that was the last thing that she needed. He apologized for that – but it’s obviously part of the problem. He doesn’t know how to handle emotion and freaks out. I’m sure that’s part of his PD or whatever he has.
Thanks everyone for the support and words of advice. I’m weary and I just wish that I could find a port in the storm. And you are right – not all is quiet on the Western (Eastern) front. Oh……..how I wish that was the case.
Deb
Deb, I agree with all of the girls. I think you have hit the wall. You are posting new threads daily and they are so painful to read. I think you can’t see the forest for the trees. You and the kids have got to be priority one and two right now. He has got to go. You have got to dig really deep and find the strength to get him out. I have heard it over and over on this site that getting them out does not mean that they can’t come back eventually and even if you divorce them, you can still remarry them if they got well enough. I do not think you think you are strong enough to do this but I believe you are and I think your kids might surprise you in the help and support they can give you. He is sucking the life and the strength out of you and your children as evidenced by Katie’s cutting. She is screaming at you in her silent cutting to make things better. Hear her and get him out so that you can get some clarity and peace under your roof. I am praying for you, I really am.
Deb,
My heart goes out to you and I would agree with March that nothing is really quiet on the western front. In fact, in reality, it’s quite the opposite. It’s very difficult to see our own shituations from the inside, however, from the outside things are deeply troubled and priorities are mixed up.With an open mind and setting priorities YOU CAN create alot of stability and safety feelings for your daughter. Acknowelding her feeling would likely be a releif to her and then a counselor. Sitting down with her and asking her what would help her to feel better about this move. Have her talk and you listen, write down her suggestions. She needs to know she has a parent who listens and she can trust. Without that, things go underground and likely in a unhealthy way.
I know you love you family Deb. I love you and I want to listen and hear what you have to say and help you in anyway I can because you are a sister and friend. Slow down, write down your priorities, be an excellent role model for your daughter by listening and caring and following through. This girl needs a lot of extra TLC and as Diane says you are the only adult parent.
No number of classes, intensives, knowledge will replace genuine love and concern. Take a genuine and sincere interest in you daughter. Make her feel when you listen to her and talk to her she’s the most important person to you. That you understand (tell her) that our lives have been chaos and youre sorry for the affect this has had on her. You are here for her and want to help her in anyway possible because you love her so much. So often the words never get said and when they do it means so much.
Your friend and sister, Nap
Deb, I’m so sorry. And I don’t know if this is the right advice, but when you said part of you wants to take the kids back to California, I immediately thought, ‘Do it!’ I think being across the country from him could be the best thing you ever did for your kids and for yourself. I think as long as these SAs are in our space, it’s impossible for us to clearly see the effect they’re having on us and on our kids. xoxo
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