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Sisters…
I am wondering how many of you are still together with your SAH? And for how long? If you are not together, how long did it take you to leave?
I am struggling at 16 months. I have seen some behavior change in my SAH but I am getting tired.
Thanks sisters…
mj
Hi, mj..
We’ve been separated for about 18 months, but a lot of that time we would have been anyway, as he went away to vet school. You’d think I’d be able to say if we’re still together or not, but honestly, I don’t really know at this point. He’s still supporting me financially, and we email..and occasionally talk on the phone, but not very often.. but I’m still emotionally in limbo, not really knowing what I feel for him anymore. We were together 22 years when D-day hit, and I can say I still care about him, just not too sure in what context anymore, if that makes sense. And like you, I’ve seen behavior changes, and he is trying. But I don’t know if I can live with the personality disorder underneath anymore. Right now the thought of living with him again is just not doable. D-day changed my tolerance level, to put it mildly. xoxo
Hi MJ. I am still with my husband. I really struggle as times too. The reality is for me that I don’t have the courage to leave. I can’t imagine not having him in my life.
I track my him (bank accounts and GPS) and I know he has stopped his behaviour ( at least for the time being). He is also very remorseful and very attentive to me. He has never blamed me for any of this. The sisters tell me that he is gaslighting. I’m not sure.
Still, I have the past to deal with. This year is our 30th wedding anniversary. I don’t see any reason to celebrate. Do I celebrate 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 years of the marriage when he was truly married to me?
Then there is the future to think about. Has he been able to stop the compulsion for good? There is no guarantee.
I’m not the poster girl for dealing with an SA. I am not a confident or strong person at all. I think there are much better examples of women dealing with this I am just telling you my story.
Can you tell me what behaviours he has changed and how he hasn’t changed? CatherineHi MJ, I have been married 20 years. I am still with him. Dday was a year ago. I am struggling. I cannot say that I will remain with him. He is doing all the “right” things. I have seen vast improvement. He is not “acting out”. I am still not real thrilled.
I’m sorry you are still in the limbo hell. Is there any way you can separate from him just to see if that helps?
We lived separately in the same house from Sept 2009 dday to January 2010.
I lived there and he lived elsewhere from January 2010 – April 2010 (traumatized by his presence)
Sold the house and both lived elsewhere from April 2010 on.(traumatized by living in betrayal home and financial stress to maintain it)
Ambush disclosure with sons January 2011. (took several months of extra therapy to regain sanity)
Gave up completely on the marriage spring 2011. (but overwhelmed by administrative prospect of divorce so postponed)
He secretly buys house next door to our barn property in another province.
Joint file Feb? 2012
Divorce granted May 2012.
He moved to his house in another province June 2012.married 20 years. together for 23. d day 12 months ago.
i’ll be divorcing him in the next month – he just isn’t the man i thought he was, he isn’t someone i want to be married to. he will continue to hurt me, recovery or not.
i’m incredibly loyal, and always keep my promises. this will be a hard one to walk away from, but i’m absolutely certain it will be best for me and my son.
day by day, (or minute by minute) mj, strength to you.
Hi MJ,
I’ve been married 6 years, dated for 2 years (2nd marriage for both of us). He has 2 kids, I have 1 kid, all grown, married, and on their own. My discovery was in Aug. 2010. He’s done everything right, went to 3 week intensive, going to meetings, seeing a CSAT therapist, seeing a psychiatrist, taking his meds, But he’s also, since discovery, been forced to retire early (dropping our monthly income by 2K), he’s got a restraining order against him from his previous employer, our guns have been confiscated (we live out in the country and can’t defend ourselves from wild animal attacks on our pets), we’ve had a search warrant served on our home and they tore up my house and arrested my husband on possession of child porn (case still pending). We can’t afford to be separated in separate homes, so we live in this house sleeping in separate rooms. He’s doing well in his recovery, but as usually is the case, it’s been discovered that he has PTSD from incidents that occured at work and he has huge abandonment issues (his father left when he was 2 yrs old). He knows that I consider us separated and I don’t wear my wedding ring. He still wears his. He has another court hearing in April and who knows what that will bring. But in the midst of all of that, I have had 3 shoulder surgeries and now I’m told that the last surgery didn’t work and they are referring me to a specialist at USC. And that will likely be another surgery, a tendon transfer. So because of my health and the responsibilities I have to my animals; I stay.
Everyone’s situation is different with different reasons why we can’t go or why he can’t go. I love my husband as a best friend. I doubt that we will ever have love life like normal married people do. But for now this will have to be the way it is until this court case of his is settled and I’m healthy enough to make some concrete decisions on my future.
I wish you all the best.
ClaireIt’s been almost 4 months since Dday for me. It was all so crushingly horrible – arrest for solicitation, forced to resign from his hospital, public knowledge of it all, etc.
Four months later things aren’t as dire. The arrest charge is expunged from his record. He actually got a better paying and much less stressful job. He cites the stress of his old job as being part of his compulsion. He goes to an addiction therapist, a men’s addiction group and a CSAT weekly. He’s doing everything “right”, and I’m just in limbo waiting to see how things all shake out. I see the CSAT tomorrow. I already told her on the phone that I don’t believe in the Carnes model of treatment, and that it’s a waste of time if that’s how she wants to go at this. She assured me that there are bits and pieces from lots of different treatment models that can be of help or can be tossed away. Every situation is unique. I liked her response, but I’m going in to this session loaded for bear. The SOS has really helped to equip me.
I’m just trying to take care of me for right now. I really don’t want to leave our marriage, so for today I won’t. Leaving is always an option, it just seems so hard.
For today, I’m having a facial at 2pm. Yay! Taking care of me.
:0) Ali
MJ, Welcome to the Land of Limbo. Did you know that the dictionary defines limbo as “a region on the border of hell”? I shit you not. I myself am currently residing in Limbo, and it’s not a place I’d want to visit, let alone live year-round. Yet here I am. I’ve invested close to 30 years of my life with my SA, and I’m just over 3 years out from D-day. My life has turned into a game of “Survivor” where I’m doing my best to Outwit, Outplay and Outlast my SA. All the while praying my ‘torch’ doesn’t go out in the process.
Ali I’m so pleased to read your update. Can you tell me why you don’t want to leave your marriage? If I am prying don’t worry. I just feel like we have many parallels so I’b be interested to know where you are at. Enjoy your facial. xo
Well, I gave it my all for over a decade, and I do believe that Larry really wanted to change. He did all he could, counseling, 12 steps, recovery, 6 years of sobriety, psychiatrists, psychologists, medication.
Sadly, it still didn’t work. They are who they are.
I am now happily on my own. ~ JoAnn
Sisters…Thank you for your openness. It comforts me to know this place of “limbo” is normal and others are there too.
Catherine…some of the changes I have seen is he does not travel for work anymore, works out a lot, trying to open up communication on feelings but some days it’s like pulling teeth. He is on ADD meds. Tries to feel my feelings. Not sure if he ever can but is definitely more thoughtful. Nothing to brag about but a little better than the detached person he was.
I have started taking better care of me. It feels good. I think I am going to change my therapist because she doesn’t know how to treat trauma. For six months it was “you are co-dependent” and “don’t shame him”. I need to take care of me and stop listening to that.
Thank you sisters. You are all amazing women!
I was married 25 yrs when I discovered my Xh secret life that was in Oct 2010. He did a ‘fake recovery’ for 5 months and then we separated and the divorce started and was finalized Valentines Day 1 yr ago. So I am no longer with him. He’s a very ‘not well’ person and I’m happy to be divorced and enjoy being single and my new life.
MJ, I changed therapists 3 times. Do not get discouraged. I don’t know what you want to do with your SA. I can’t honestly say I care except I care about you. Find a therapist that is working for you. The rest will take care of itself eventually. Co dependent and don’t shame him my ass…
Fuck That
Definitely change therapists. How did you stop yourself from punching her in the nose when she told you not to shame him. No don’t make him feel bad for his shameful behaviour, just rub his back and say there, there.
I would say just work on making yourself better. Maybe then the rest will take care of itself.
Since joining the sisters that is exactly what I have been trying to do.
Ironically 18 months ago my husband was hospitalised for 10 days (psychiatric) because of what he had done to me. I held the fort while he ‘got better’. I spent too long worrying about him and how he was dealing with his shame when I should have been looking after myself. xoTechnically, I was married for 32 years. D day was in year 29.
MJ, tell your therapist to get some new material or you are moving on. If she’s so scared to actually respond to YOU and your experience, then she’s not worth the time. Tell her I said so. Tell her she’s a big stupid chicken.
Okay, two glasses of red wine. Don’t get me started on these dipstick CSATs.
Alicat – I haven’t left yet because I don’t feel strong enough yet. I’ve pretty much fallen apart, and he’s picked up the slack while I’m taking this time to heal. He does the grocery shopping, cooking and managing the kids different issues (they’re high school and college aged, not little), while I try to get through each day. He’s smart and interesting and loving to me (although I don’t allow anything sexual – not even a kiss). I still look at him and marvel at how sick this whole thing is. I don’t want to be 10 years down the road and have this happen again, and according to statistics it will, so I realize that I’ll probably need to figure out leaving. JoAnn’s story is a grim picture of what we all have facing us if we stay. I don’t know why I still love him so much after all of the lying and cheating. It doesn’t make sense, but I do.
Limbo = HellFYI, spoke to my son’s therapist today about CSATs. In general, she doesn’t think much of them. The one that she likes and who she has seen actually accomplish anything is a woman who does not pull any punches or worry about their “shame”.
I get so sick of hearing about their “shame”. They should be ashamed of what they’ve done. Lying and cheating IS shameful!
Ali I have a different view. I believe some men recover. It very much depends on the extent and nature of what they did. I think most of us would know if our husband/partner is capable of recovering. The bigger issue is do we? Can we have a healthy relationship in the future given what has happened in the past? Like Bev has said you might forgive the human but not the husband. I too find my husband, funny, smart, interesting and he is very loving and remorseful but sometimes I look at him and say the f word to myself and wonder what is real and how he could have done this to me. Catherine xo
My new doc doesn’t think too highly of CSAT’s either. That is one reason I am going back tomorrow. He is of the opinion that most of them are SA’s themselves and he doesn’t have a lot of faith in that.
I do really believe that people can recover and grow and change. I don’t know if my H really is or if anybody really will. I believe it is possible. I do not know if that is enough for me. I have stepped back ( way back) and I view the change clinically. I can tell you that it isn’t solid. Maybe there is a better word but that’s what comes to mind. There are cracks. I am like Ali in that he is picking up all the slack where I need him to right now. I cannot say I love him though ( not like the love you should have for your husband). It is all a mess…..
I never mind anyone asking Catherine. I know we all try to be cognizant of one another’s pain and personal space but you don’t have to tiptoe around me.
I will try to explain. It’s not cracks in his being “sober”. He is not F’n around. It’s more like the little things that you would normally let slide but now you are hyper vigilant.
Instead of hearing me, I think he is focused in on his utter shame. That is understandable but I expect more. He finds it difficult to have a conversation with me if I am expressing anger or intense pain. He doesn’t get angry or try to blame me or walk away but I can tell he isn’t able to “get it” in a real way. I can see the wall go up. It’s a different wall but a wall none the less. Her reverts to what I call therapy speak. It’s practiced and something you could copy out of a book. The remorse is there but it doesn’t feel real to me. I will say that it is a huge improvement from what it was. I am trying to be fair and objective.
Here is the best example of a “crack”….. I asked him ( actually told him in no uncertain terms) to leave my shit alone. This has to do with my bedroom. I have taken the bedroom as my safe place. I have made that very clear. I take up a water glass each night and put it on my nightstand. They stack up there. I told him to leave them alone. I am not saying that I am being rational but I have carved out a small place for my messiness to reflect my inner turmoil. He is constantly going into my room and cleaning up my mess. I took the kids to school this morning and by the time I came home he had been in my room, taken my 3 water glasses, thrown my night clothes into the hamper ( I had dumped them by the bed) and generally straightened up my area. I know that sounds like a nice thing but I have told him to stop touching my things. Long, silly story short, I hit the roof. He had a CSAT appt today and obviously this was discussed because he came home and immediately started telling me that he was wrong and he violated my space after I asked him not to and that was my safe spot and he would never do that again…etc. It was all so obviously therapy speak. It’s really not about the water glasses or the stupid clothes. It is the fact that my husband cannot seem to have an original thought and I cannot seem to communicate with me without a therapist in the middle. It’s like he reverts back to ” yes, I did do xyz, BUT, I thought blah blah blah ( there is always a reason).
Maybe I am over sensitive but I don’t want to fight for a marriage with my husband and his therapist. Call me crazy but I only want to be married to one person. I will admit that I am in a mood and I am not sure why. I just have a feeling that something is off. It’s not anything to do with hookers and such but it’s off. I have learned the hard way not to ignore my gut. It may be that he is simply showing who he really is and it’s a disappointment.
I’m rambling now and I have no idea if this post makes any sense 🙂
I need to add in the vein of full disclosure that I throw out little test questions/statements every now and then just to see how he responds. It is my opinion that he responds in a way that is more convenient for him. I can ask him to stay home from work and clean the house and pick up the kids and do the laundry and get something for dinner …he will do it all without hesitation. If I ask him a tough question like “Did you fuck a hooker at this particular hotel”, he reverts to “they say you need to answer those questions in disclosure”. I say back, ” Do you really want me to sit in the room with you and a stranger and hear your list of transgressions?”. He responds with , ” That’s what they say is best”. It is my opinion that the very last thing in the whole wide world you want to do to the woman you supposedly love is to sit her in a room with a stranger and disclose all of your sexual escapades. I assumed that is a no brainer. He is going so by the book that it is non human…..Best I can do.
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