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I seem to continue to be at a loss of what to do, other than to wait it out a little. But I am beating myself up… What am I waiting for? How long do I wait to find out I should not have waited? Crazy isn’t it. I have met women that clearly have “stayed too long”. I feel the pain in their heart and I see the crazy in their eyes. These men have broken them. I am not broken and am concerned about falling into the “Stayed too long trap”. So you ask what stops me from leaving.
It’s not money – I am independent and financially secure.
Is it love – I don’t think so. I realize that we are not swans and will love again. Do I love him, yes, but I know I deserve better.
Is it hope – Part of it possibly? The hope that we can have the marriage I thought we had. Or am I just delusional at this point to think any of them can manage their behaviors.
Is it empathy? Somewhat. It started after his brother was killed by a drunk driver 35 years ago and his overly religious disengaged family didn’t provide any guidance. They had 7 kids in the family and no plan as to how to raise them. My SA was the quiet shy one in the middle. His mother even admitted he didn’t get much attention because he was so quiet and reserved. She told me he never “bothered” them. From the outside they look normal and like a very nice family. Who wouldn’t want to be a part of a family like this? Wow do I have a different outlook now. They only care about how they are perceived from the outside, not the real interworkings of what is going on.
The kids? – Largely. I have a 3 and 5 year old (as well as a 21 and 18 year old from my first marriage). I am in a no-fault divorce state. He will be entitled to parenting time. Like everyone else’s, he comes across as a nice guy and he does love his boys. What defenses do a 3 and 5 year old have against this? Will being away from him promote an addict raising potentially 2 more addicts? Am I giving up my life for these two little boys? I would put down my life for them. What’s worse… Dad lives in the basement or Dad’s on a free for all exposing them to God knows what on the Internet.
I am 45 and know that I have a lot of life ahead of me and I do realize that not all men are like this, but not everything in my marriage is bad. Until he destroyed his computer and the porn was found on his work laptop – I did not know. He comes home every night on time. He did not get up in the middle of the night to surf. He doesn’t travel for work – so his time was accountable to the family. He attended all family events with me and the kids. How would I know what he did in the shower? I didn’t time him – hell I was sleeping most of the time when he showered.
I wish he would just do it again. The last time, so I can know for sure – he cannot manage his behavior. I hate feeling like this. Waiting for the other shoe to drop is no way to live. We are going to start marriage counseling, but it will not be with someone in the Carnes camp. Maybe my answers will become clearer. Or maybe I stay too long and 5 years later he’s at it again and now I’ve lost 5 years of my life. Ugh!!!Please step away from the marriage counseling. I doesn’t matter if the counselors are Carnesians or not. YOUR SA IS THE PROBLEM, not the marriage. And girl, if I were you, I wouldn’t wait for that other shoe to drop. Get the hell out of Dodge now.
Dear Paultette,
Why would you go to marriage counselling? It is not as if you have a communication problem? Marriage counsellors are there to help 2 well intended people who have an issue that requires joint consideration. They are not there to help people who lie, deceive and lead secret lives. I don’t see what you can contribute to solving your husband’s porn or masturbation addiction. You don’t make him do it and you cannot make him stop it. The best you could hope to gain is told that you need to “trust him and move on” and I fail to see how that is going to help anything. Most marriage counsellors do not understand this problem or have any skills to deal with it. The CSATS who think they can counsel both parties in the marriage are also way off base. He needs someone to help him with his problem and you need someone to help you survive being dragged into his problem. You don’t have a marital problem, you have a husband problem. I know it all sucks. Karen xx
Paulette,
Days turn into months, months turn into years, years turn into decades and the next thing we know were dead.Our life is what we tolerate. We don’t have to tolerate a husband who gives us a black eye every other week. So we go hopefully. Well, this black eye is of our soul, our mental health, our integrity, it’s actually 1000xs worse than a black eye because it affects our children and every fiber of our being. We were horribly decieved by these men not just once but hundreds of times, over and over again while we had no idea, while we were raising kids, working, taking care of the family while they are literally out having a ‘fucking’ good time. I’m 54, married 25 yrs when I found out, divorced now 1 year. Please don’t stay too long.
Love, NapPaulette – I was exactly in the same place that you were just a few short months, even weeks ago. Like you, my H is a “nice guy”. The all-American good provider. We had a good marriage & good friendship – if you take away all the havoc that SA wrecks. He was home by 7pm every night. But yet, he might have been here physically but he wasn’t here emotionally. And you can’t take away the SA stuff now that you know about it – there is no forgetting it. You may be able to forgive but you can never forget.
I had known in my heart since early December that I wanted a separation – I knew that time apart would be good for me. I was worried about the kids. I was worried about him (ridiculous but true). I felt that I was slowly being driven insane. I knew I could not stay in that limbo state for long -I was losing a piece of myself. In late March, with the help of the sisters here and by reading George Simon’s “Sheep in Wolf’s Clothing” and “The Gaslight Effect”, I was finally pushed to ask him for a separation. Go back and read the threads – you’ll see it play out. It was not easy but now that it’s done (as of yesterday!), I feel so much better. I took what steps I could to change the situation and I am feeling stronger for having done so. The road ahead is not going to easy but I would rather face this challenge than be stuck waiting for the other shoe to drop. For waiting for “one more time” for him to prove himself. I get it – I really do. They will disappoint you in the end so save yourself the aggravation and the heartache of another discovery and make a choice to choose yourself and your children over him.
paulette,
i agree with the sisters, no marriage counselling for partners and SAs. there isn’t a marriage honey, at least until he gets his head together, it’s just too wonky trying to work out ANYTHING with them.
too long, too short? that’s very personal.
a little over a year after d day i told DW (dickwad) it’s over. i knew it was over at about 8 or 9 months, then i planned for 4 or 5 months, got ready to leave. for me, it has worked out. i was WAY too angry until just recently. the break up would have been ugly. so far it is civil. it will take us a few more months to untangle everything, i suspect…
but, i’m a long range planner. i’m planning professional events in 2014 now. i think on the long arc – in my experience anything is possible, eventually…
it is completely personal how you choose to deal with the sorrow, grief, and trying to understand what the fuck is going on.
i think more important than when, is how. we all MUST put ourselves first. ALWAYS. that was a steep learning curve for me. learn how to detach. learn how to take care of yourself. take the focus away from him and the marriage and turn inwards to yourself.
get yourself a good trauma therapist. learn about boundaries so you can create safety for yourself. let him know your boundaries. enforce consequences. you are dealing with a naughty child that will get away with whatever he thinks he can. i don’t know him, but i do know him, these guys aren’t very different.
figure out what you want in your life that has nothing to do with him and focus on that like crazy. learn to choose you.
listen to your body and your feelings. do something nice for yourself every day.
hope this is helpful…
I cannot emphasize strongly enough how bad marriage counseling will be for you. Stay with him if you must but do NOT participate in marriage counseling……please learn from us.
And I agree on the marriage counseling. My H pushed me to go see this MC b/c his sponsor spoke so highly of her. We went one time and thankfully, she “got it” and told him she could not work with us b/c he is actively addicted (thanks to me for telling her that b/c he would have her believe he was a boy scout). She said she cannot work on our marriage when one of the partners is addicted! She asked him what he was going to now do differentely than he has been doing to overcome his addiction and he was dumbfounded b/c he had no answer.
Oh and guess what? This MC that he was sure was going to tell me that I had a problem…when we talk about potentially trying MC in the future, he refuses to go to her. Why? Because she called him out and said things he did not want to hear.
Maybe I have the wrong idea about marriage counseling, but I would have liked it with someone like minwhalla or someone trained in trauma. I think it would be helpful to have someone other than the spouse lay out the transgressions and trauma. I would see this type of marriage counseling as helping the SA learn to support the partner dealing with trauma. Then the SA’s own therapy to address the addiction.
If its traditional marriage counselling I agree that’s probably a waste of money. but if they never change maybe all therapy is?Paulette, no answers in what to tell you. That’s the big question we all deal with– stay or go? The main thing is that usually one must be separated prior to divorce. You could have him move out, get some practice with co-parenting, get some space and perspective, take it gradually and reassess in 6 months.
For me, and I did eventually leave, I stayed because I clung to hope that we could have the relationship I’d imagined us having. He broke my trust further and further until I couldn’t see that relationship anymore. It was out of reach. Then I grieved, am grieving, am sad to know I won’t have it. With him. I’m angry because I feel like he discarded his family for back alley sex.
Thanks for everyone’s insight. It’s like seeing a freight train coming at you and you just can’t move. Too afraid of doing the wrong thing. My H is in therapy with a CSAT, I see someone also. This counceling came about because we went to the movies last weekend and we saw Silver Linings Playbook. We talked about the movie on the way home and he made a crack about the lying cheating whore. This was an unsettling conversation for 6 days. I asked him then what the hell are you? You think because you live in fantasyland on the Internet that you are not an adultrist? I lost it. We finally talked through things and were able to move past it, but the train about derailed right there and then.
Until now he was in denial that he had a problem – All men view porn… This is one of the many phrases I heard on D-Day. I also heard – men need variety. I had to explain that marriage and variety don’t go together.
I guess I know what I need to do, but I am not ready. It’s easier for me when I am angry to act. I am no longer angry. I am hurt and disappointed.
Well Paulette,
We all understand that as well. I know our responses seem harsh perhaps with its that old hindsight thing. You could consider the partners intensive that Minwalla offers? That is now becoming my answer to everyone about everything. 🙁 He understands what these guys do to us. We have to be aware of the magnitude of what they are doing to us in order to respond in a self protective way. Your husband is minimizing his porn use and his comment about the lying, cheating whore….not a good sign. Your gut is correct. One thing I see here is women spending a lot of money getting the wrong kind of help for themselves and their husbands. It adds up financially but the outcome is often very limited. A wise sister (Jos) once commented that a sex addict will take and waste whatever amount of time you are willing to give him…..Something to think about? Karen xx
Thats a pillow quote for sure.
“A sex addict will take and waste whatever amount of time you are willing to give him”.
has he taken a polygraph? Are we sure all he has done is Porn?? Not that it maters, i just believe they lie about everything….
I am not sure if they made him take one in LA. He did take a psychological test that was about 500 questions. Part of the test was looking for inconsistencies in his answers. His CSAT said that he has never seen a score of 0 in the area of honesty. My H scored 0. The lower the score, the better. Normally they are around a 4 or 5 at best. I will never know for sure what he has actually done. I do know that his time is pretty well accounted for. We also work together.
“I do know that his time is pretty well accounted for.”
Honey, if I had a dime for every time I heard (or said!) that one….
Paulette, I understand being worried about letting your kids around him unsupervised. There is no easy answer to that one.
I will say that I stayed with dr. evil for that very same reason when I thought he was a porn addict. In my own home, he gave my son porn, he gave us a back up hard drive for the family computer with porn, he downloaded porn when he was home alone with my son, he let my son work on his computer with porn, he sexted around my son. He even emailed a prostitute while he was chaperoning my son at a Boy Scout campout.
So much for keeping him safe. Was that the lesser of 2 evils? I’ll never know. I really do understand that fear.
So sorry for what this is doing to you and your kids.
Paulette,
don’t waste anymore of your precious life on this–please!Go on and live a good life, with joy and laughter, challenges you can actually overcome, and a sense that you have lived your own life well.
Paulette it seems to me that you have made your decision ie. you want to end the marriage. Of course we would all like you to get out ASAP if that is your decision but only you know what is the best timing for you. I agree that you are a long way from marriage counselling being of any real help to you. He needs to do his work. He must understand what brought him to the point that he needed the porn and sort through these deep rooted problems that have or will manifest in other ways as well. It is not enough just to abstain from the porn.
Be kind to yourself Paulette. If you want to end your marriage do so but you set the timing. xo Catherine
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