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victoria-l.
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September 3, 2013 at 3:59 pm #8125
victoria-l
MemberI am going to the art gallery tomorrow, to see Monet’s Garden.
One thing I learned after D-day was that my SA’s friend and former co-worker Paul had an affair with their office receptionist Jackie — she is a “blonde model” and to quote my SA “very, very attractive”. Although, I tend to call her “man jaw” when I am pissed off. My SA obsessed over her, mentally brought her into our bed, and so I hate her.
She cheated on her long term boyfriend with Paul. Paul has a long term girlfriend, Rebecca. Their partners do not know about the affair. Ever since knowing this information and seeing the proof, I have felt very sad for Rebecca, and guilty for knowing yet not being able to tell her about Paul. They will likely be getting engaged soon. He is also a pervert like my SA — they encouraged each other, although my SA was probably more the bad influence. I once had intel Paul was regularly spying at work in windows with binoculars watching a woman undress and having sex. I reported it anonymously to crime stoppers, although I don’t think they did anything. I have never personally met Rebecca and do not have her direct contact details. I have thought about contacting Paul directly myself letting him know that I know about the affair and he needs to tell her — but I don’t trust him one bit, he’s the type of person who could organize something bad to happen to me — even though he’s a firefighter and saves lives.
Now, I haven’t really been thinking much at all about this saga over the past year.
She apparently works at the gallery where I am going to tomorrow, though. So it has all come forward in my mind.
What’s worse, my SA told me this week that Paul has been working the last 6 months in the mines — in Australia there’s literally legal brothels set up out there for the miners. I imagine he surely would have been using them. He has just returned back.
If I see Rebecca tomorrow at the gallery, what do I do? Do I keep away? Do I introduce myself? Do I say anything? Obviously I would never drop such an awful bomb while she’s at work, however, do I let her know that perhaps she needs to contact me?
September 3, 2013 at 5:04 pm #106452diane
ParticipantHi Victoria,
I’m going to suggest a different question.
What is best for you?
It’s not always to try and help someone out who has not asked for help, when you are still dealing with your own trauma.
I can’t remember if your story with your SA is public or not. Will she know about that? If she does, she may dismiss you as a bitter angry woman who thinks all men are like yours.
If she doesn’t know about your situation, then she may wonder why you are sticking your nose into her business. So you might tell her why, and then we are back to the bitter angry woman thing.If you truly feel you must do this, let’s try and do it so that you don’t get trashed or dismissed, because there’s just been enough of that, I think, don’t you?
And I have no idea how you would do it.
I’ve learned lots on this site. Even when women know about their partner’s sexual compulsivity, even when they are here and ask for input, they sometimes aren’t really ready to dialogue about it at all. They are still the walking dead, reaching out just so someone will not let them drown in the swamp. I’ve been that person myself. Just think about how differently we are all wired on this site. We don’t react the same even when we’ve had many of the same horrible experiences.
So what would be best for Victoria, here? My concern is that you not be traumatized anymore. We sometimes think we are fine and then we are not.
But if you go ahead, we don’t play the I told you so game here. If it turns out well we will support you. If it doesn’t, we’ll support you.
D.
September 3, 2013 at 6:12 pm #106453victoria-l
MemberDiane, I ideally would like less stress. I am more in a better place at the moment, compared to the past, which is great and I don’t want to jeopardize that, because it’s taken a long time and hard work to get to this place. So in a way, I am somewhat hoping she isn’t there tomorrow — even though I feel guilty saying that, and I am certainly not a selfish person.
However, if I do see her there tomorrow, how do I look at her and not cry? Having been through this myself, I feel a duty and responsibility to tell her, for her own safety. I have known about Paul’s dark side for 2 years now. The first year, it completely tore me apart. The second year, I accepted I couldn’t do anything as these was no viable way to contact her without going through him. However, I feel complicit in the deceit and that doesn’t feel right.
I also understand the risks. She may not even believe me, even if I was able to provide her with the proof that I saw. Yes, we absolutely respond and react in different ways.
She may know a small portion of my story, but I am not sure. It’s so sad. She is younger than me. Incredibly beautiful. I feel so angry he has done this to her.
September 3, 2013 at 9:08 pm #106454teri
ParticipantI like Diane’s response- do what is right for you.
I often wonder what I will do when I run across various people in doc e’s camp (the ones I know of anyway- there are hundreds of people he’s screwed that I don’t have names and faces). One is an airline pilot, so I wonder every time I fly if he will be there. Another works at grocery store that I stopped going to bc I didn’t want to run into her. I am always afraid to go to Target or the grocery or out to restaurant bc I’m afraid I’ll see someone there.
I have no idea what I will say or do if that ever happens. But I figure I’ll know when I get there!
September 3, 2013 at 9:26 pm #106455lisak
Participantvictoria,
it’s a hard spot to be in. to be the holder of an uncomfortable truth. one that people don’t always want to hear, and that may cause people to hurt us.
protect yourself first. we can’t protect everyone from these guys, but we can protect ourselves and people we love.
if you do want to communicate with her, it can’t be at teh expense of your mental health. so only go as far as you can while you stay safe.
if you are afraid of crying when you speak to her, take a deep breath and say very little. go to the bathroom and cry there if you need to. that is, if you don’t want to cry in front of her.
you can go to a quiet place, and imagine a neon fiery boundary around yourself that will protect you. stay in that safe place.
hope that is helpful…
LSeptember 3, 2013 at 9:33 pm #106456lisak
Participantit is just so hard, but we just can’t be responsible for them or for the damage they do…
September 4, 2013 at 12:54 am #106457allcat62
MemberI’m with the other girls in that I don’t want to see you hurt. That said I feel for this girl who is investing in what could be a disastrous relationship. I would hate for her to be in my position in 30 years. I don’t know what value an anonymous disclosure would hold but at least you will feel that you have tried to help her without compromising your safety.
How lovely for you to see the Monet exhibition. I have been to his garden and home and it was beautiful but one of his most beautiful works is in the MET where the painting surround the viewer in a round room. I felt like I was swimming in his pond. Aaahhh the beauty and joy of art …..quite a contrast to our ugly worlds xxSeptember 4, 2013 at 1:05 am #106458lynng2
ParticipantVictoria,
How wonderful to have that opportunity, and bittersweet that this brings things to surface that cause such inner conflict. I don’t have much to add that the sister’s haven’t said already. Whatever you decide, I feel sure you will know in the moment. Chances are you might not even bump into her.
Knowing is hard, feeling like you might be able to save someone else the pain is hopeful in a strange way. But without her knowing your history and your heartfelt intent, this is a very, very tough thing to broach with a complete stranger. Sadly, if I didn’t know what I know, I wouldn’t believe it was possible. Nobody could have told me it was, either. I would have thought they were personally very, very sick and that was where it ended. How sad to know it’s not.
Hugs, you will do the right thing. Sending you protection and love.
Lynn
September 6, 2013 at 3:52 am #106459victoria-l
MemberMonet’s paintings are so breathtaking in real life. The exhibition was beautiful.
Very grounding for me and also mesmerizing. I was in pure awe by the fact his real works were right in front of me. More than 60 paintings. It’s a collaboration with the Musée Marmottan Monet Paris. It also included rare photos, and they had Monet’s palette, pipe, and glasses there.
Catherine, if I go to France again, I will definitely visit his garden.
Part of the exhibition, they had a film installation entitled ‘The Last Day at Giverny’. Displayed in a room on a massive round circular screen. The way it was done — panoramic all around you, showing his garden and house from sunrise to sunset with relaxing sounds and music — it really felt like I was transported there. So soothing. I didn’t want to leave.
She wasn’t there! I was looking out for her, but didn’t see her. I was prepared to introduce myself. Beyond that, I’m not sure what I would have said in the moment.
September 6, 2013 at 3:57 am #106460lynng2
ParticipantHooray!!!! Sounds absolutely wonderful. So glad you had that experience and no icky things to deal with while you were there.
September 6, 2013 at 8:39 am #106461allcat62
MemberWow Victoria. Might be Roth a trip to Melbourne
September 6, 2013 at 6:51 pm #106462victoria-l
MemberSeptember 6, 2013 at 7:21 pm #106463victoria-l
MemberNow I have all the good stuff out, I’ll explain what else happened.
I pushed myself to go — so glad I did. I have been in pain with bruised ribs, which feel like they’re broken. And in the morning before the gallery, I felt so stressed out. Thinking about everything. Then it triggered anxiety and pain regarding my own SA’s involvement with the receptionist. “Did I know the full extent? Did he have a physical affair with her too? He often said to me he was staying back at work to play table tennis with Paul — was that real?” I started worrying sick. It’s times like that which remind me how much I need the polygraph, so I can cope better when triggered about the past, rather than getting pulled under by all these questions and endless possibilities that I don’t know the answers to. I hadn’t been affected by this Jackie stuff in months.
Once I arrived at the gallery, I felt so much better. I immersed myself in the paintings and connected to the history.
Once I came home in the evening, though, I felt deeply sad and cried. I was thinking how these motherfuckers trade butterflies for dog shit.
If I go again tonight, she might be there. In the future, though, finding a way to let her know anonymously would be good. Even if she doesn’t believe it, at least I will feel released from the feelings, and know that I tried my best. Problem is, the evidence leads back to my SA, so it might be obvious it’s from me anyway — it’s facebook and phone communication between him and Paul, discussing Jackie. Making it even more complicated, they also always used a code name when referring to her, they called her “one eye” something to do with her car plates. So Rebecca might be a bit confused by that.
Paul and Jackie would kiss at work, so most people there knew about it. Mainly men, so they all protected him and each other’s cheating. Although there is a women, Julie, who knew about it too and still works there. Paul left on bad terms, and I assume she would have no problem talking about it. Perhaps if I ever contact Rebecca, I could say the best person to talk to about this would be Julie.
She’s already invested more than 6 years into him and her relationship. I recently saw a photo of them on his facebook, she looked so happy with such brightness in her eyes. It crushed me — knowing what I know. I saw my pre d-day self in her.
Even though we never met throughout the years my SA and Paul were working together, I felt we were similar in ways — both Italian, and good girlfriends who believed our boyfriends were truly good people. We put up with their safety risks on a dangerous job, and put up with them travelling together and being away a lot.
Makes me think now about how much I always worried about my SA throughout those years. He clearly never worried about me. It’s such a huge contrast — how can they be so careful and safety conscious with their jobs, yet so careless and wreckless with our lives.
My perceptions about men have been changed so widely partly because I learned most of his male co-workers cheated too and were involved in similar sex shit. I was so fooled and naive about the culture — I thought they were all family men, and that my SA was just the bad apple.
September 6, 2013 at 9:12 pm #106464allcat62
MemberVictoria I feel the same way about men. Where are the good ones? I was out recently with my husband, son and 2 of my son’s friends. One of my son’s friends is in a de-facto relationship with a beautiful girl who I have always thought was too good for him. Well….he started flirting with the waitress. I should have said something but I didn’t want to embarrass my son. His friends spoke about how they live vicariously through my son. James is single and unfortunately has random sex. I think it is a lonely, sad life compared to theirs with their beautiful girls.
September 10, 2013 at 3:06 pm #106465victoria-l
MemberCatherine, that must have been very uncomfortable for you. Yeah, I can’t say I understand how single random sex equals “living” compared to a good relationship with a beautiful partner. His friends have it backwards — but then again I am female. Hopefully James will meet a wonderful girl and start a new relationship.
In the past 4 months, I have discovered a handful of good men who exist, but I guess I still question if it’s perhaps just a veneer. However, I think concerns about the current/future state of men in our society are valid, and certainly not just due to hypervigilence. I don’t believe all men are sex addicts. Across the general population, though, the issues are sadly not limited to a small percentage of bad seeds. It’s a much bigger problem.
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