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There’s a subtle little twist of the knife with the statement that my husband is “sober” for x months now. It sounds so dry, and constrained and deprived. Sorry in advance to anyone successful with AA, if that’s hurtful.
Now the incredible luxury of exploring all our capacity for pleasure together is “sober”? My ex said a few times, “I know the only healthy sex is with you” and “I know it’s a more constructive thing to come to you instead of them (his harem of courtesans)” and “I want our family, so I’ll just be with you”.
I am now the granola instead of the caviar? I am the spirulina smoothie instead of the french pastry? I am the prescribed fiber of physicality, the creamy butter is not allowed?
Hell no.
In the early days of our marriage, I made the naive mistake of describing the marriage bed as a banquet of pleasures. Ironically enough, this was actually at the end of a discussion SJ initiated, saying he wished that the grocery stores didn’t put those seductive magazine covers at a grocery checkout, it was like soft porn! Maybe he was fishing to see if I knew yet. I said then I always wondered why a virile man would choose to use porn, why would he be satisfied with an appetizer like that, just a tease? How little I knew, right? SJ, of course, spouted off his scripted line that porn was a travesty and the men who viewed it were supporting an abusive and immoral industry.
This is vanity on my part, maybe. No couple is enthralled with eachother sexually forever. But to have access to my sensuality and sexuality in the same category as being “on the wagon” for the rest of his life? I would never, ever feel the same about making love again. I didn’t. I couldn’t. Knowing that my husband was STRUGGLING his entire life to only make love to me absolutely crushed my libido.
I am vain enough to be unable to accept that. Whether that is wrong or right I don’t know. But, it hurts me to hear the ‘sobriety” comment for any of us. Damn it, we’re goddesses, and being our partners is a privilege beyond compare.
In my world, the sexual “oops” is getting caught in the office with your husband. Being late for work too many times because you just couldn’t leave the bedroom. A “toy” falling out of the luggage on your way to an exotic vacation. I fully intended for us both to be completely and totally intoxicated. None of this “sobriety” will do.
Getting off my soapbox now.
Yes, Lynn, I think you nailed it.
the “eat your broccoli, it’s good for you” lines of the “sober” SA, are actually IMO his new way of criticizing and humiliating you. It’s the narcissist in them. They “sound” like they are saying the right thing, but actually its just another insult. They are still keeping the upper hand of subversive abuse, while pleasing their 12 step idiots and faking out their dumb therapists.And, when you protest these remarks, you will be told that “nothing is enough for you—he’s sober, he’s admitting he should be with you sexually, and he’s trying to chose you—and you don’t like the way he did it” DAMN RIGHT I don’t.
Just as you point out, they cannot affirm that we are sexually attractive, good at sex, interested in being sexually creative and curious. They are “settling” for sex with us for the “greater good of humankind”—actually “mankind” is probably more accurate.
IMO. Diane.
I don’t see this as vanity at all, LynnG. I see it as setting the bar where you need or want it to be.
Sing it sisters! Write books!!!!!
I was shamed and abused by SA RAT for not being happy and trusting (hah!) enough with his fake recovery. Thanks to professional therapy from “the best” for setting this up. The abuser was empowered. Shit.
I’m having a tough day. Lynn, your post was right on. The H and I had a discussion last night. I confronted him with my observations, and IMO he should have fallen all over himself to make it right, but he just sat there staring… he had no response.
He told me not long ago (and this was meant as a compliment) that he felt like “shallow hal” from the movie. He said that all he sees is my beauty, how wonderful I am. It made me wonder what he does see in me. I told him that it appears to me that he feels a certain benevolence for being with me. Like he’s sacrificing something. Now I wonder (and I asked him) what it is that he feels he’s looking past. No answer. I wish I had the courage to leave.
Its funny after all this time of learning and KNOWING they are nothing but fucktards….we do still struggle so much to put their opinion of our sexual attraction behind us. I can only say this. If they don’t have a single coherent thought or opinion among the lot of them….WHY OH WHY would they be right about us or our sexuality??
In the weeks since I told my mother, she has made some observations—including her concern for my self-esteem, and my need to stay away from congregations or people who hurt my self-esteem.
It was like a bell went off. I think I had been talking around it, but not naming it, for four years. My first instinct was “no, my self-esteem is just fine”, and as soon as I thought that, I realized it wasn’t fine at all. I go along just fine but I can crumple in an instant, and I do. My mother had actually named the next piece of healing work. Thank Goddess I told her my story!
Self-esteem has long been a challenge for women in a sexist context. To endure this on top of it, and be told by therapists that these non-affirming “concessions” from “sober” SA’s are signs of hope….well I could just puke.
Puke away. EVERYTHING about these men and sex and anything even relating to normal sexuality is revolting and worthy of throwing up on.. If we are only our genitals and firm bodies we may as well just off ourselves at menopause.
Like they are so great anyway? Let’s face it, some of our husband’s or exes may be nice looking but none of them are exactly the male model “hot body” types in magazines. I might have my self esteem shaken by some 21 year old hottie that wasn’t so thrilled about my appearance but my middle aged, average looking husband does not get to decide my attractiveness or my sex appeal.
I will add too, for those of us who have endured long term marriages, this shit started before us. They still did it even when we were young and pre baby etc….
I see lots of people on a daily basis that are not the most beautiful people physically but they are happy and in loving relationships. It’s not us girls, it’s them. There is nothing wrong with us.
Desiree, Empowering the abuser- I’ve seen a lot of that. Idiot therapists don’t get it. Every time therapists are involved with doc e, things got WORSE.
I can agree with that, Teri. Over the four “intensives” SJ has been to, he has become increasingly more empowered and defensive until now I am the abusive one who has ruined the marriage with what I have done, as his email clearly states. The whole process just doesn’t work with someone that screwed up. And remember, he met me and proposed to me while in marriage counseling with his first wife. I bet she was miserable that whole time he was “courting” me and didn’t even know why. They just learn more “scripts” and tricks to cover up in counseling, if they’re not actually heartset on changing. And which of them has been that, honestly?
This is a great thread Lynn. I was always a kinda sex kitten (okay, tiger) in my younger days. Had to beat off my boyfriends because they wanted to ‘do it’ all the time. Always embraced my sexuality and enjoyed sex. Then along comes ‘Mr. Nipple’ and was very passionate then we got married and it was like someone through a switch off.
I can tell you I might have been vanilla ice cream to him but being back out in the real world, there are men who would like to jump my padded bones if I let them. My xh made me feel asexual for so long it was inhumane. We still got it sisters and like Bev said it’s THEM not us!
Yeah, I can see why my SAH’s ex became a lesbian.
I could give a shit about what POS THINKS about sexuality. The problem is what he DID to me sexually. Even when I didn’t know about his extra curricular activities I still felt the effects of them. I did the pick me dance sexually. I was turned into just one of the many objects he used. I know he felt perverse pleasure when he came home after effing around and shared that unshoweredness with me. Blech.
I had a great sense of my own sexuality when I met him. Now I can’t even remember what that is. How the hell does one rediscover that on one’s own? And furthermore since I can’t see that the healthy opportunities are out there right now I feel like there’s no point in exploring how to swim when there isn’t any water around here.
But yeah, my STBX wouldn’t know what healthy or happy sexuality was if it hit him on the head. There’s no point in trying to point out what a gift it can be and was. At some level their still stuck in that ignorant adolescent view of sex. Or at least mine was. I hate feeling like I was just some used girl in H.S. or worse yet, like I got roofied in college. I’m too fucking old to deal with that shit. Sorry….sensitive subject.
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