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Gollum has only ever admitted to porn. In all 8 years since dday 1, I have only found porn. Lots and lots of it. He also had a membership to the local sex/video store here in town. I have always felt there was more. He even told me once that I would probably like it if he would confirm my suspicions of anything else. How do you ever know? That is why I made him leave. I can not ever, ever trust him again. No matter what he hoops he jumps through, how many coffees or flowers or such that he brings. No matter how much weight he loses from “stress” or hand wringing/ big sad eyes he gives me. I just feel in my heart that there has to be more than porn. Even if Dr. M. was able to straighten him out, I can’t take any more of this. Period. Although whacking off to teen porn is more than enough to call this “marriage” off. I told him I don’t want to know anything else, but a part of me does. Not for reconciliation, but for validation. Does that make any sense??
Makes perfect sense. Demand he take a polygraph and see how quickly he quits ‘jumping through hoops’ for you. Trust your gut, Monique. Where there’s smoke, there’s whores.
Monique, ask yourself, “what do I need/want?”. Then get it.
Warning: negotiating with SA will make you crazy. Right?Do you have more access to talking to Minwalla on the phone?
He could be of invaluable help here.Want a poly? Get a poly.
Just Porn? Unlikely! This SA crap escalates by nature. Lying is SA’s nature. You have proof.
Example, the SA RAT in my life said it was porn and strip clubs and eye fucking, AS IF THAT WAS, OK.
Turns out, after, ohhhhh, 15 years or more of lying to my face, showering my life with fake normalcy…….he had lap dances at strip clubs, used glory holes in video booths and rest areas and stores, met men in sex video/toy store booths, etc, etc, oh yeah, befriended women into their beds. All THAT without a formal disclosure and in addition to chronic porn use and compulsive masturbation.
OH, AND I WAS A PROBLEM IN THE RELATIONSHIP. JUST WOULDNT GET PAST ALL THIS. NO RIGHT TO DISCUSS IT ANY MORE. Pushed back. He gas lighted. GOT SICKER AND SICKER AND SICKER.
He would sprinkle in wanting to commit suicide when these things came to light. Was all about him!
Me – “All I got was a lousy HIV test and PTSD”. (SOS t-shirt?) Paid good money in therapy for those things. FUCK.
WARNING: Don’t let him F………….. With your mind any more, but, do get what you need for you. Pronto.
Well, this type of behavior has been proven to escalate. If he’s got that much material, and been doing it that long, he’d be in a slim minority if he hadn’t gone live And that’s just the beginning of the slippery slope. It’s a behavioral addiction that builds tolerance and therefore boredom with their current “high” like none yet seen. So…
Is he that man, who can resist the temptation and perpetual offers of god only knows what with god only knows who? Can he resist? Would he tell you if he didn’t? Really?
And I’m one on here who doesn’t even think polygraphs are such a good idea. I found the worst of SJs stuff by accident AFTER he passed the polygraph. And the polygraph experience was hideous. So I went through that, he dances around saying he passed and he’s in the clear, and he’s STILL doing things he denied on the test. Go figure. Some people have lied to themselves so long they believe their own fabrications.
There are as least as many views on this as there are women on this site!
I didn’t want to know any more, because I would never get it out of my head BUT having that information can be really useful leverage in dealing with lawyers, family members, friends etc. There’s a part of me that wishes my sons really knew the ugly details, not to upset them but so they would know it wasn’t just “a guy thing”.
Of course you want the truth about your marriage, but searching for it comes at a cost. Only you can decide if it is worth it.
I am also skeptical about polygraphs; although doc e never did one, I would not at all be surprised if he passed. If someone doesn’t have a conscience, I don’t see how they will have the physiological responses a normal person has when lying. No one ever answers my questions on how they come up with their accuracy rates, so I will continue in my skepticism until I get an answer- not that I am looking too hard.
I do not believe in Polys accuracy. That is from personal experience. But, if you want one get one. Sometimes they fail and that is info.
SA in my life passes all polys but after about 5 or 6, the poly guy said he was suspicious and I should see a sexual offender specialist regarding SA. By then, SA had a breakdown and eviscerated my life.
Everyone thought he was such a nice guy. Some could see he was a creepy nice guy. Most were very, very surprised and doubted my story. Like Diane, I have lost much of my support personally and professionally. Getting used to it but it hurt for sure.
Monique, I’m an avowed cynic. I believe in God but I do not believe in “just porn.” I do not believe it is possible for these guys to not escalate to live experiences. I do not believe that “just” viewoing porn continues to satisfy their obsession. I understand the need to know. I felt it too but over time I have come to realize there is no way to really know it all so the question becomes when you know enough. I know enough. Whenever my H tells me something “I’m meeting Mike after work for wings” in my mind I’m thinking “sure…” Maybe he is, maybe he is actually going to a strip club and screwing strippers. The fact that I don’t know for sure and will never know for sure whether he is telling me the truth is all I need to know. I have no intention of spending the rest of his life checking up on him. No tracking devices, no polygraphs, no internet usage searches, etc.
Agree with Daisy. Did polys originally to stay with an abstinent SA. Therapist recommended 🙂
Would have done things differently if I ever had one damn ounce of trauma based therapy.
Must have been in about 8 therapeutic situations, on my own behalf, and no one gave me compassion at being traumatically betrayed until 2010. Started searching for help in 1991.
Oh….staying with a abstinent SA is, IMO, a joke. Just the joke I personally participated in for far, far too long. Just the eye fucking alone………..never ended for one second.
Thanks for all the wisdom. Polys are something I know he could pass. He has had several and passed just fine. These polys were to be vetted for his job in the sheriff’s dept. Also,before we married, his first time working for the dept, he was an undercover narcotics cop. He had to lie and play the part of drug dealer/bad guy even up to being arrested with the bad guys. Even going to bars, strip clubs ect. He told me about it, but said it was part of his job. He even had a whole different name. I know this is true because he has plaques and awards for his service. But it shows what an accomplished liar he is, especially under pressure. Compared to drug dealers, my questions are small fry. His ability to smoke me was child’s play. I don’t know how far I will take the wanting more info, but it seems like a deal with the devil. And I’m not sure what I would accomplish by knowing. I guess I just want to know that this was not me. It was a well thought out strategy and I fell for it. I would then know that there is no recovery possible. That this is who he had always been. And the rest was a fabricated lie. He still maintains he is in recovery. I don’t believe it.
how do you know? by how he treats you. if he treats you poorly, is emotionally distant, lies to you, threatens you, any or all of the above. or makes you feel unsafe or uncomfortable in any way, then you know it just isn’t right. you sound right on track with that. in a way, what they do is secondary. how does he treat you, what does your gut say?
that said, validation can be useful. but it can be tricky too. and necessary in the early stages for many. the best spot IMO to be in eventually, is to get to the place where what they did/do doesn’t matter any more. and you know what you want in your life. and if that doesn’t include wondering about them, run for the hills and never look back.
if that includes finding a way to deal with it and stay, then that can work too, if the wondering won’t drive you batty. personally, i can’t stay and wonder. fuck that.
i’m a little pissy because DW, in his ‘perfect’ recovery is slip sliding away lately. dumbass. so glad i’m leaving him.
and personally, i hate the phrase ‘just porn’
who the fuck thinks that compulsive use of pornography is ‘just’
if it involves lying and making your partner feel like shit, it’s not ‘just’ porn. it’s porn. porn. PORN. not just porn.
compulsive porn use is using people like fucking toilet paper. wipe your shit on them and then flush them away. all the while ignoring those who love you.
fuck that.
“just porn” is like saying to an officer that pulled you over and asked if you had anything to drink and your reply “just 2 beers”
How I know is because my H spent 3 weeks with Dr. Minwalla who pulled all kinds of shit out of his head. When Doc called me to update me, he recommended I get a full disclosure, when I told him I didn’t think that I could handle any more bad news, he told me that “there is so much more you don’t know about”.
Well, I found out over a year ago that Doc wasn’t lying when I had a team of Homeland Security dudes with guns drawn searching my home and 3 hours later arresting my H.
That pretty much convinced me.
Lisak, I apologize for saying “just porn”. I loved your analogy of using people like toilet paper wiping your shit on them and flushing them away. Wow so true. Sorry if I triggered anyone with that stupid phrase. It is porn. Using people and lying and fucking over the people you supposedly love. It is sick. Perverted and depraved. Period.
They are totally self-consumed and believe other people are there for their use, misuse, and eventual disposal. They pathologically lie, with “kernels of truth” and some kind of plausible structure, to throw you off balance, and keep you confused and addled enough so they can scramble to get themselves back in the dominant position, at which time they will blameshift, gaslight, and minimize/rationalize to get the onus off them. At this point, if they’re vested in keeping the marriage going for their own self-image (or their image to others), they will beg for forgiveness, cast themselves as the victim, and “commit” to a fake recovery. If they don’t give a shit about the marriage and/or don’t think losing it will hurt their image, they will viciously attack you, STILL play the victim, and dispose of you like yesterday’s trash, like mine did.
hey monique, i don’t hold it against you at all! it just pisses me off that so many of these SAs and people in general think like that….
You penned it perfectly, Lisa. This is why, personally, I feel no hatred for women in porn. I’m able to see them as human beings who are essentially used and abused by our SA’s, and this got so much clearer for me when I realized precisely how these SA’s think, disregard, degrade, and discard women.
So many people do think it’s completely harmless and innocent. Porn is so normalized today — it’s like brushing teeth.
So well said, Arleigh. Mine oscillated between the two. Playing the victim is definitely the constant with them. Lynn wrote something quite good about this the other day. They are deplorable, as are their deluded collaborators who then insist that partners are the ones who are actually “playing victim”. These particular men are walls of shit, they deliberately wipe their shit on us too, in order to disguise the truth about themselves from everyone else.
Monique, that’s quite interesting. I think anyone working undercover probably has developed very good control over their reactions.
Trust your instincts and listen to what you feel you need. Validation makes sense. There are many reasons for wanting to know, or needing a full disclosure and poly, beyond decision making.
For me, it’s about closure. My therapist who specializes in treating trauma and PTSD, along with ISH who I have been in contact with this year, both agree I need full disclosure with polygraph for my healing. I don’t need it to make a decision about him, I seek it because it’s important for my own narrative. That recent NYTimes piece on great betrayals explains it well. My past was robbed from me. He doesn’t get to keep it sealed and continue to control my story.
This is my personal choice to make, and my autonomy is rightfully, finally, being respected. So many therapists took the full disclosure option off the table for me, preventing me from knowing the truth and protecting him instead because he had depression. One of our former therapists said, “Do you really need to hear what he did? I believe that it’s better that I hear those details. While you will always be left wondering, you hearing will only make you feel worse.” Because of that set up, I then had to endure constant mini-disclosures from him, drip fed to me, every month for 2 years. So, rather what I need is a final giant full stop/period to signify I finally know everything, chapter closed, no more wondering about my past and questioning every memory of my lost decade.
Plan is ISH next year. My thinking is if it’s going to be done, then it may as well be done right — with Minwalla’s team. They are the only people I trust with handling this.
Victoria, I’m wondering why your ex-boyfriend who you said broke up with three years ago would agree to spend thousands of dollars on a trip to the United States to talk about the details of his sex life? Is he aware of your disclosure plan?
Daisy, he is aware and saving up to pay his part. The poly at ISH is about $1000, which is actually less expensive than it would be down here. He wants to do the SA intensive for himself while we’re over there as well, so the thousands are his choice. I left him in 2011, but my story is far more complicated than that.
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