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Sadly, so many of us have stories that are decades long…….and the harms are so great.
What are the solutions to preventing women from being in the dark for so long?
What basic information do women need to have about entering relationships to arm themselves from the outset?
What red flags should they be routinely warned about for initial SA signs and classic progression?
This has got to STOP! Women need to be able to get out much, much earlier in the process. And, the only place to start is at the beginning.
I have wondered about this one too, Desiree. Let’s see if we can get some clues down into a list. We’re good at lists.
1. His mother is an invasive presence in your life, and he will not draw any boundary on what she can do and get away with. She is particularly critical of you.
2. you notice his parents, family member and himself making remarks about bodies ( particularily womens) while in public. The comments are made in front of your small children.
shoot! – mine doesn’t fit the first 2 on the list!
one more reason to never get into another relationship.3. They come from any kind of truly dysfunctional family ( not run of the mill family shit…. Weirdo shit). My H’s father was a raging, abusive, cheating drunk. Everyone in the family refused to discuss it and when he died they memorialized him like he was a freakin’ saint….
So I think all those would fall under:
The boundaries are off in their family of origin… (and none of them seem to notice)What I have told my daughter is, “Dump any guy who tells you that you are overreacting or being too sensitive”. She is sensitive and has strong emotions, so she is vulnerable on this point anyway- it has that kernel of truth that can be used to manipulate her. But that’s such a big gaslighting red flag.
Also, Beware the Love Bomb.
The Love Bomb? What is that? I have heard it before but don’t know what it means.
Overbearing, overly critical mom. Yes yes yes. Controlling behavior and being evasive about certain things like money.
Seriously, I think the only way to protect yourself is to have a comprehensive discussion about shared values before you get married, including topics such as porn, your definitions of infidelity, etc., history of sexual behaviors, etc., then have a prenup drawn up that sets out the terms under which you are entering the contract and what constitutes fraud and/or breaking the contract–and the consequences.
Men can keep everything on our lists covered up until well after marriage. Best be prepared.
Right March. Because simply having those discussions gives the SA all the information he needs to completely snow you. He will feed back to you everything you believe in and make it his own.
A Pre nup, no matter how good he sounds, with HUGE consequences is the only way I know to protect yourself.
Which is exactly what mine did! We had those discussions. He absolutely knew where I stood. I got played.
Yep. Right out of the Playbook.
We need to write that stupid Playbook and make some money selling it.
If he seems distant and you find that attractive (my failing!) because you think you will be able to draw him out of himself, and because it feels like a challenge.. That’s one thing I hope I’ve learned to view as a potential red flag. And if during intimacy, you feel like he’s just not quite there, but you can’t put your finger on it, pay attention to that feeling, and don’t do what I did, which was to shrug it off as me just expecting too much. xoxo
p.s. Desiree, this was a really good idea of yours, and very thoughtful and protective of sisters. xoxo
I think women need these specific examples. We can gather them up under FofO Boundary Violations, but unless you know what that actually looks like, you don’t recognize it when it’s happening to you.
While a pre nup is a boundary response, I’m not sure it helps you avoid these these men. They don’t care what they say, promise, or sign.
#1, #3 for sure, also had those conversations, life, family, shared values, plans, who stays home with the kids, humanitarian causes, whatever, and he still played me.
So here’s one. After you get married and see the “inklings” (such as getting fired from a job for leaving racy advertising on his desk), no matter how devastated and embarrassed you are, to all your family, colleagues, friends, etc., send back the gifts, and get out. Go back to your day job, even if you hate it. Even if “your clock is ticking.” Even if you did your checklist completely right, asked all the right questions and got all the right answers.
My SA admitted he had once been arrested for soliciting, in a sting. He said it was a one time thing, so embarrassed his mom had to bail him out, and just a stupid college silly indiscretion. So, ok we are children of the 60s, what’s a one time “experiment?” 26 years and formal disclosure later, way more behavior before I ever met him. Liar Liar.
Ya know what else? How much he preferred getting oral sex to having intercourse with me. It always puzzled me.
Been there that is a good question. Same with me, only at the height of his pornsturbating he could not get an erection. Just a limp willy. Or, I could not bring him to orgasm. I just figured he was tired. Poor baby. He WAS tired. From pudpulling all night long.
Love bombing is how they sometimes get you hooked early on in the relationship, seeming too good to be true. So attentive, so caring, so in love with you. Cults also use this to lure people in.
Sorry, Diane- I totally agree that details are necessary. I didn’t mean to make it sound like I don’t. But so also is understanding that violating boundaries is what these guys do and the many ways it can manifest. So what seems like all these disparate experiences all have a common theme.
Lovebombing also felt like a boundary violation in a way. It’s too much, too fast and felt intrusive. But I told myself it was just me. How could I not want the attention of someone who was clearly head-over-heels for me. Now I see him try to do it with the kids, and their response is the same as mine (too much!). I’m a slow learner.
And that’s just one example. Really when I think back, it is all about boundary violations. Wish I knew then what I know now.
And I had those conversations about values as well. He just went along with everything I said, knowing full well that he was already into porn and group sex.
Pre-nup won’t protect you from ending up with one. I agree, they’ll just sign it and then make you fight tooth and nail to enforce it when you find them out. Maybe if you could have something about them being castrated if they cheat on you in the pre-nup? Hit ’em where you might actually get their attention?
My point is that you can’t know. They’re too good. And such discussions do give bad men ammunition. But if you write all those agreements into a document and add serious financial consequences for breeches and he stalls or balks… My guess is, because these guys are so good at singling out trusting, strong women, who nurture others, a document like that would be a serious curveball that would divert them to an easier target.
Double sigh.
Listen, I’ve trusted. I’ve forgiven and trusted again. I’ve been hellbent on NOT letting my history with men poison new relationships. I have always given the benefit of the doubt. Here’s a brief history of my relationships with the significant men in my life:
Molested by my teenaged uncle when I was a toddler. Father was an exhibitionist, a womanizer, probably an SA. 4th grade history teacher–family man w two kids in my school–fondled me repeatedly. Best friend’s father tried to seduce me. Raped by a friend in college that I jogged and played racquetball with. College boyfriend beat the shit out of me one year and nine months into a perfectly lovely relationship. Three college professors messed with me. Make that four. First husband turned out to be a sociopath. One of his friends called me once, supposedly to ask me how to deal with his grief over the death of his fiancé, then started masturbating as I tried to comfort him. During my early twenties and into my first marriage, my mom was dating a family friend for several years. He was like a father to me. After my sister died of leukemia, my mother found out he’d been cheating on her the whole time. Second husband was the SA who is now my third husband. But the icing on the cake is this: my kids’ pediatrician, who was there for the delivery of all four babies, who took care of my children for more than twenty years and whom I’ve known for over thirty, has turned out to be a pedophile. Yup.
From now on, my trust will be earned.
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