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Lisalife sent me a link to the following Power Point notes on the APSAT training. It is insightful to read what they are teaching.
Thank you Lisa!
You can read and download the document here:
Update from JoAnn: Unfortunately the above link is no longer working.
And that it is a relational problem that both parties need to work on. And that these guys just need to ‘learn’ empathy. I find that statement not only naive, but unprofessional.
Having attended the first training session last June, I’m still upset by some of the things that were said in the room. For example:
Re formal disclosure, how ‘the wife needs to agree to stay in the marriage for a certain amount of time. Otherwise, she might just be using the information as a weapon in divorce and child custody.’
Another was something about the wife needing to learn to hold her tongue.
I objected to these statements, among others, and my comments were less than well received.
I am so glad you objected, March.
If they don’t want something used in court, they should probably not DO it, eh? How exactly is the wife finding out and doing what’s appropriate about it HER fault? They are condoning a woman being held to a year of commitment to a man who she KNOWS abuses her? That’s beyond sane.
The wife learning to learn to hold her tongue? How about the man learn to control his penis FIRST!!! You lose your control and expect me to maintain mine for your benefit? Not happening.
I was so very excited when I talked with Barbara Steffens personally about APSATS. After reading through the material, not so much. I knew I wouldn’t be able to hold my tongue, I didn’t go.
Barbara Steffens has done a lot, but her silence about her story still gives me the creeps. Some of the things she’s done to ‘rebuild’, too. Like the expensive guitar she gave him to show she valued him, as an exercise. That was weird to me. But then, I’ve done weird things, too.
Remember, too, I got shut down by Richard Blankenship when I suggested that CSATs who are themselves recovering SAs should disclose to partners before partners agree to be treated by them. No one would even discuss it.
I’m afraid I also doubt Steffens. Shame as she seems like a lovely woman but I think her judgement is impaired by her involvement with her husband and her need for them to be able to get better. Perhaps going and getting a PhD is the greatest avoidance of all…… I’m grateful for her voice for partners, but her associations are too deep with professionals that I consider to be completely insane AND dangerous.
Hilarious, Karen. After the Avoidance topic Diane posted, I realized that I WAS SO GUILTY. I went back to school 8 months after dday and was awesomely distracted for 3 years. After graduation, I was still stuck with him, with the same choices to make.
March…I suspect Diane hit on something very important that many of us who stay are likely struggling with? Who knows…..maybe all that effort to ignore them is just another form of avoidance? LOL
I just looked at this closely – it is such a regurgitation of Omar’s work that I wonder how they (Steffens et al) will differentiate between him and APSTATS and be clear about who ‘owns’ the SAIT model – Steffens quotes Minwalla a lot but I don’t see him getting the ownership he should truly have…I don’t disagree about the empathy piece and yet there is a neutrality in the presentation of the SA which does not give full impact to how their broad based pathology requires extensive and life-long treatment just to maintain sobriety let along develop reasonable ‘human’ traits – I would say this is a much needed start but I worry that unless Omar stands up publicly and takes his mantle that his concepts and work will be bastardized by SA’s posing as therapists – I don’t have a problem with Barbara staying with her husband and offering that as a possible outcome but as she demonstrates – 84% of SA behavior is discovered by the partner not revealed as a part of desired recovery – we should not forget that if they hadn’t gotten sloppy they would probably have never stopped …
I just looked at this closely – it is such a regurgitation of Omar’s work that I wonder how they (Steffens et al) will differentiate between him and APSATS and be clear about who ‘owns’ the SAIT model – Steffens quotes Minwalla a lot but I don’t see him getting the ownership he should truly have…I don’t disagree about the empathy piece and yet there is a neutrality in the presentation of the SA which does not give full impact to how their broad based pathology requires extensive and life-long treatment just to maintain sobriety let along develop reasonable ‘human’ traits – I would say this is a much needed start but I worry that unless Omar stands up publicly and takes his mantle that his concepts and work will be bastardized by SA’s posing as therapists – I don’t have a problem with Barbara staying with her husband and offering that as a possible outcome but as she demonstrates – 84% of SA behavior is discovered by the partner not revealed as a part of desired recovery – we should not forget that if they hadn’t gotten sloppy they would probably have never stopped …
Spot on Meg. And the sloppiness really is an escalation of both their sexual and hostile behaviours to the point we know something is wrong. There is no longer room for giving them the benefit of the doubt.
March you are a saint for not assaulting those assholes.Ha, Catherine! Like I’d actually touch one of them. Blech.
They were very careful to give credit to minwalla for his research. At one point, they even made us tear a page out of our notebooks and turn them in because something hadn’t been properly cited.
I think there’s a reason for that much caution, and I suspect it’s because Minwalla wants plenty of distance between him and APSATS. It’s my understanding that he was originally on the Board. Barbra said something about how he’d decided to concentrate on his own work/writing. But then…he creates his own training.
Don’t quote me on this- and March, maybe you know some detail? But one problem that Omar had was that he felt that there was very much a Christian bent to what APSATS was doing. I don’t know if it has shown up in their training/materials or was just too much part of the discussions/makeup of the board. But he thought it shouldn’t be a Christian thing, but something that addressed all partners.
Here’s irony for you – The CSAT who my H was seeing works in the same office (they have separate practices but are in the same office suite) as Steffens and does couples counseling with her. After the disclosure I wanted to have her do some intensive work with both of us but my H wasn’t having it. He quit therapy after the disclosure when his CSAT wanted to work on partner trauma and he was afraid Steffens would be more of the same or worse. Apparently, he wasn’t terribly interested in hearing any more about the pain he’d caused me and our kids. If he’d known the whole “hold your tongue” business, etc. he probably would have been all over it. Sounds like a lucky break for me. 🙂
I’m sorry, Daisy.
There’s just no magic bullet with any of this. It’s like we are still in the dark ages with it, and I’m afraid the one guy who actually has a clue (Dr Omar) will probably be treated as a heretic.
They get sloppy—
My take on this from my own experience is that my ex only got “sloppy” when he wanted to hurt me or make me pay for something nice that happened in my life. For me, the “sloppy” is an indication when their narcissism is needing an audience and they want to hurt you with you KNOWING it because they enjoy that. It gives them a feeling of having the upper hand. I’m sure my ex left the porn on the second laptop deliberately for me to find when I got home from my sabbatical. When I called him from work I could hear thinly masked pleasure in his voice—more than surprise, embarrassment, defensiveness, etc. He did not blame our sons as he done previously and he made no excuses. He wanted me to pay for my time away on sabbatical, and he thought I would put up with it.
Wrong wrong and wrong.
The secret world of betrayal may make them feel like secret agents and ever so clever, etc, but they also want a “pay off” every now and then. They think they deserve it, they’ve earned it, by not flaunting their deceit and infidelity. They get sloppy when it suit their purposes.re: the Christian bent of Apsats.
Yes, but its a conservative Christian bent. I’m a Christian.
I exchanged emails with B. Steffens about my ebook on spirituality. She was thrilled to hear about it and was very affirming. So I sent her a free copy. She never even acknowledged getting it. That’s because what I say in that book challenges the theology that undergirds their theories, exposes the myth of the marriage vows in play, and blatantly questions the ongoing sacrifice of a wife for a pathologically deceitful husband as having ANY spiritual value, biblical grounding, or theological integrity.
“nice girls” don’t do theology like I do. I do it as an act of loving God with all my heart, all my soul and all my mind. And I’m sure that a God that asks for my love that way is expecting me to do just that.
How could I love a God with all my heart, soul and mind who preferred that I “play nice” and accept abuse, flawed thinking, and a path for healing that requires injustice and my silence on the matter?Great question, Diane. I am not a nice girl theologian, either. I love the quote in Narnia where they say of Aslan, “He is good, but his is not tame” or something to that effect.
Beautifully said Diane. I couldn’t agree more.
I don’t discuss my religion very often with anyone. I won’t have my faith questioned by these self appointed “men of God”.
Anyone that researches any religion using historical facts can see that all of them have been bastardized by man. There is no “true religion”. Translation of the King Kames version was mucked up. The passage quoted most often to bash homosexuality is translated from Greek and there is NO word in Greek that actually translates to “homosexuality “.
These bottom feeders ( and I am becoming inclined to add Steffens to that camp) use religion. They don’t offer God’s love or the Bible. They use it to beat you up.
One of my very favorite books ever was ‘The Poisonwood Bible’ … Should be a must read for everyone!
Sorry, end rant 🙂
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