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What can I say ladies? Other than I have been fooled again. Lucy and the football comes to mind. But it is just far more grave than that.
SA H is supposed to be on recovery train. Well he did more than slip and I am just dumbfounded. EVERYTHING is too much for him. Sorry this is long – but I want to give a history heere.Friday night and Saturday. Friday he said he “did not have a good day”-was neuriticising about money and business and bills (things are much tighter as a result of our agrmt), and he had some tense business conversations. Saturday – sulky miserable. Watched a movie, he fell asleep at 6pm. We were supposed to BBQ together – didn’t even get up for that. Slept, ate a little went back to bed.
Sunday – wakes me at 8 am saying he was picking up old friend of ours at airport. I heard conversation on phone I think that much is true. He had forgotten all about it, was late, friend got another ride. He said he was up, wanted to get out of the house for bit so he would surprise his Mom for visit. Then he said he was heading to beach, wanted some time alone out of the house (he works from home, he is there literally, 24/7 unless he has to be present at event). I said ok, we could both use a break, we agreed to meet for dinner at 6 pm, possibly meet at beach in afternoon.
We have several conversations in a.m until about noon. How he had to take responsibility for lost clients’ and business due to his irratic behavior over last year. That he felt very embarrassed, was also afraid I was going to leave him. He senses how angry I am. He said he was feeling very insecure, ashamed. Wanted to walk on beach shake it off.
I go to beach w/5 yr old. I text him. No reply. I call, no call back. I finally go home expecting dinner bbq have my wtf talk. Doesn’t call until 7pm. Too drunk to drive home. Calls at 9 pm. Still out partying not coming home. Calls at midnight—going to a diner.
HE NEVER CAME HOME. 6 am call. Says he slept in van. What happened? I mean what happened here? Won’t admit to anything except drinking. Not coming home. Obvious boundaries have been violated here. He hasn’t been out of house in 2 months. He can’t handle it. But no excuses.
Also, went to computer – guess what was on google search bar? “Carmen she male los angeles”
He has to have access to money some way I don’t know. I don’t really care. I can’ believe I have been thinking he was recovering. That we were progressing. This does not add up to slip up. This is way off the wagon, won’t admit to anything (so much for transparency).
I am so F’ckd in Divorce court. Just so F;cked and so is my kid. But I how the hell can I live with this SHIT!!!! . I need my sex and love needs met also. He is a disease waiting to happen.
PS – last week, after preaching about his 60 days sobriety—he wanted another HIV test (they suggest taking them 3 mos after last activitly for reassurance) because he wanted to try or at least think about a second child. and wanted to assure safe sex. now this. How can someone be so sick?
One minute trying to take responsibility telling me everything is fine, he needs down time. I bought it. Then he’s way out in left field committing all types of addictive behavior.
I can’t even get mad anymore. I am just so disgusted. I can’t even hurt. I can only think about WTF I am going to do.
Where did I go wrong? How did I buy this crap? Should I have told him no you cannot leave the house unless for work? I really don’t know the answer or what my responsibility is in this, if any.
My daughter asked this morning “where’s daddy” I said he stayed at a friends because he worked really late. What else could I say?
I cannot go back to crazy addict living. I just can’t.Pam-C I am so sorry.It seems all SA’s operate the same. Mine will accept responsibility for what he has done one minute and get angry and defensive the next.
Your’s is off the wall and inexcusable. Why do you say you are so f
in divorce court? I have not been able to keep up on post’s lately, so missed that tidbit. I know finances are a big factor for me, as well, but how in the hell can we put up with they’re shit and keep our sanity.
I would say that at this point your’e responsibility towards what he can and can’t do is a moot point. Obviously, he is going to do what he wants to do and when he wants too do it with no regards for your feelings and that of the marriage. I have been sucked in to thinking Steve was in recovery, but he isn’t even close. (How many times now?)
I hope it will be easier for you to get out than it is for me to make the break. I am really working hard in getting my mindset working toward that goal.
I know you must be devestated, and my heart aches for you. I don’t know what else to say other than I can truly feel your pain.
Am sending love and prayers your way.Thanks so much for caring Sharon. I am just so beside myself. I say I am screwed in divorce court because according to the 3 attorneys I have had consultations with I can expect>
1. Joint custody. Unless he has a dui or criminal recored substance abuse has to be proven. SA not even really considered. Now 5 year old daughter is with XSAH who is off his rocker at least 50% of time.
2. Financially. My parents MINE alone, gave us a LARGE, I mean large down payment to purchase our first home via them getting a reverse mortgage. They gave up 50% of their equity, their life savings for ME to have a home with HIM and kid. Plus perhaps a home they could spend time in too. I can’ carry mortgage alone. Niether can he. I would have to sell. Neither of us can refinance. I lose my parents LIFETIME of hard work to give their daughter a home.I could have a shot at it being sole and seperate property, but so commingled probably won’t win. very ify.
Plus he gets 50% of the 100% I put in. And my aging father gets totally screwed out his investment in us.
But Sharron, I can eat it financially if I have to. Now my kid, that is the biggest issue. the courts do not care at all about SA. Substance abuse – drugs? he said she said. totally screwed.
Its a community prop no fault state. I file irreconcilable differences, and everything is formula driven. and the courts don’t believe a word I say about his behavior. no one gives a rats ass about my 5 year old daughter being raised by him. And if I have a shot at getting that? I can’t afford the type of legal help I would need to even attempt it. It is the worst fkcng situation ever. just the worst.(((hugs))) Pam… I’m so sorry for this very difficult situation and mostly, that once again, your hopes were completely dashed. It sounds like he didn’t even make an attempt to cover his tracks which is quite perplexing.
I am not defending his actions. But he is clearly, verrrrry depressed.
Now, if he has access to money that you don’t know about, can’t you do the same to him? What’s to stop you from taking out a bunch of that money and giving it back to your father for safe keeping? Is there a law against that?
All’s fair, ya know…
xo,
Lexie
Pam,
My heart just hearts for you, and I feel a huge knot in my stomach for what you are going through. I wish I could be there to sit at the kitchen table with you, talk, give you big hugs. Ugh; there are no words. I can relate to the difficult choice you face with your daughter. My therapist had asked me to consider what is best for my kids. She asked if I really want them around an SA? Well, of course not, if he doesn’t recover. And I wouldn’t have wanted them around him over the years if I knew what I was dealing with. But the other end of the equation for me is that I think, well maybe they are better off for now because at least I know where they are, and I feel like I can protect them. It’s really one shitty choice or another. My love and support goes out to you more than you could know. xoxo ZumbagirlOh Pam, so sorry. What a frickin jerk. I know you must just be beside yourself. This is a wakeup call for me and the other sisters that things can change just that quickly. I keep waiting for mine to screw up again. It’s awful just knowing that any day they can fall off the wagon, so to speak. What now? Maybe tell him that if he enjoyed staying away all night then why doesn’t he just stay away for a long while. You need a chance to heal. I’d kick his ass out for a while until he proves to you that he’s serious about recovery. If he was so depressed, he should be calling his therapist or an SA friend to talk it out, not take off and get drunk and who knows what else he did. Girl, I would NOT consider EVER having another child with him, whether he recovers or not. I know that’s strong talk, but seriously, he cannot be trusted. Don’t bring another poor innocent child into the world this way. I’ll be keeping you in my prayers dear friend and I hope you get some peace and quiet, some time to heal. Seriously consider consequences for breaking the boundaries and implement them. Love ya, CB
Hi Pam-C,
So sorry to hear about your SAH recent episode and all the pain and frustration it has caused you. So unfair.I can tell you, my attny does alot of per lidem (not sp right) for kids in her practice. She said if my children were minors, (less than 18) she would court order an evaluation on my husband (Psych eval) she is so pro kid its amazing. This is a big issue and if you have an attny that also is court appt attny for kids and is passionate about it you may be surprised, especially if you have been copying his stuff off the internet. The judge would definately be interested in that before determining custody. Start keeping a journal of his behaviors and episodes too.
I dont think divorce is as bad a you may think. Im 52, unemployed, havent worked full time in 18 years, been living in a hotel for 4 months, and I can tell you I’d NEVER, NEVER, NEVER EVER go back and I feel so much better!
Living with an active sex addict is a living hell that no one deserves. They have their addict brain and their addict thinking and its all like mush and we are expected to try to live around the madness. It only keeps tearing away at us until we are living a nightmare. I know I sure was and you couldnt pay me any amount of money to go back to that life.
Pam, your are strong and getting stronger. You see this clearly and I’m so happy you do. Please don’t get sucked back into the madness if you can. Thinking of you and wishing you peace!
Love, Nap
Pam-C I just don’t know what to say.Hell on earth is what it is, and I don’t believe in hell.
Anyway, I just can’t fathom such an injust court system. I agree with NAP – there has to be a way! She has some great ideas. Has your’e husband been to a counselor? Why not supoena those records.
I also agree with cbs life – I would kick his happy little ass to the curb!
My heart just aches for you. Pardon my french, but what a “cluster fuck.” I wish I could talk to you on the phone or see you and give you some hugs. Please try and keep your chin up, and I will say some prayers for you,
Again – Love coming your way.Pam, I am so sorry:(, whatever you decided is best for you and your daughter, I support you and am thinking about you.
MarieHi Pam,
You have helped me so many times, now I hope to repay the favor.
So i was doing research yesterday…just in time for you. Check out the website lovefraud.com. She was married to a sociopath. But what i found interesting is the reading list and she has a tab for leaving a sociopath. Now before you say hey my h is not a sociopath, read all the info. Because in reality this info is good for many of the personality disorders we may be encountering, which are underlying the addiction. And it will rare is ugyly head later, before you know what hit you (like me). Then there is a tab sociopaths and children, also interesting, read this as well. Another tab to read is under Whats a sociopath; and then click inner triangle. This is information from Dr. Liane Leedom. This is from the web page: “The Inner TriangleDr. Leedom analyzed the criteria for antisocial personality disorder stated in the American Psychiatric Association’s Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition (DSM-IV). She came to the conclusion that sociopaths have faulty development in three areas: ability to love, impulse control and moral reasoning.
“By definition, a sociopath is someone with impairment in all three of these abilities,” Dr. Leedom says. “Sociopaths are unable to love, have poor impulse control and exhibit immoral behavior.” Dr. Leedom calls these three areas the Inner Triangle.
Interestingly, she found that researchers in Great Britain, David Cooke and his colleagues, have developed a three-factor model of psychopathy. Dr. Leedom says the three factors in their model correspond to the three sides of the Inner Triangle.
Dr. Leedom believes the Inner Triangle also has implications for people with addiction, alcoholism and ADHD. There are genetic links between these disorders and sociopathy, she says.”
NOTE – The last two sentences!!! I think many of our h’s have ADHD and of course they all are hyper sexual and have an addiction or many addictions.
She goes on to talk about the ability to love, lack of impulse control and moral reasoning. Somewhere i also read on one of these tabs that in the end we are the only one that really knows whats going on here, as we are the target. The therapist won;t know, the parents won’t know…no one. In the end we have to trust our gut, as they will fool everyone else. Very interesting, a must read!Another interesting website is Child Custody Justice; Lundy Bancroft. A book related to this, which i have not read just got from the library this morning, is Divorced from Justice – The abuse of Women and children by divorce lawyers and judges; Karen Winner. since you maybe just starting this could be really useful to you.
Wether sociopath or not, this prepares you to deal with a person in divorce or day to day life, who may not be operating on a full scale of emotions here. This will help you to prepare. I have ordered a bunch of books on all this, and will let you know what else is good.
Love FloraOkay now for my personal comments.
Pam you have been through so much and you really have given it your all and 110%. I remember when you started posting, and i see you now how much you have changed and grown. The only way to get more out of life, is to change it. I know your parents have money invested in the home, and you feel bad for what they will lose. Before you throw in the towel, make sure you really look over “everything”, what bills can be cut, what support will you get from the h, what child support will you get from the h, was the money put together to buy the house a gift to you are to both?, was it given to you prior to marriage? Was the house purchased prior to marriage? In some states this makes a differnce. What bills can be cut from your budget? and so on.So if you can;t stay – is the house really more than you need? more expensive than it should be? (upside down on the mortgage, or just high LTV). The flip side of selling in a crap market and taking a loss, is that you can make a gain on something else…things are cheap right now.
Maybe really the gain from amputating the h from your life, will be okay. Maybe it will lead to less stress, less agony…
In my state, while everything is what they would say 50/50 no fault state, there is still play room, by allocating debts and equity. If you can prove irrisponsibility on his part,,,excessive debt to pay hookers, that may result in a allocation of more debt in his side, and an allocation of more equity on your side.
As far as your daughter. I know how you feel, i am going through this right now. And nothing more helpless than having to turn over your daughter to someone who is not trustworthy. But here is what i would do. Order that psych eval or appoint a guaridan to make decisions in regards to his sanity and child reearing capabilities. IF they deem he is “safe” then its on there shoulders, not yours. Then….distribute the time. I beleive the time is outside of work and school, split 50/50. Figure out how much time this would be. Also don;t offer more than he wants; if he is going for the 50/50 then you have to give it. So then he gets 50/50. I have decided how i will deal with that now. I think i will take her to therapy or play therapy every so often, to make sure everything is on the up and up. I will also have discussions with her, that i will put together with the therapist. For you .. was daddy drinking, was daddy yelling, did daddy stay home, did daddy…etc. And keep a log of her responses. I think with steady checking up and question, if something bad is going on we might be able to find it. And with steady check-ups and questions and logging over time…if bad is going on…i think you could sway it back in your favor down the road..if needed.
In the meantime. Really look at what you can and cannot do, and what is best for your daughter. Is it possible to make more money, downsize to a smaller home, think about how you can work visitation in your favor….do research and be prepared for the crap that is going to come about in the divorce. And last but not least. Don’t be nice to him or feel sorry for him.
I really doubt that check the worker cashed was from three months ago. I bet they sare smart enough to post date a check. Also why does he need cash….plenty of free sex out there!! Plus he was drunk and did not come home. What is your next move…seperation possibly? You could try that nesting thing i mentioned along time ago?
Anyway, Love to you Pam. Sorry this has happened.
FloraP.S. as you know i often post questions. Ask the sisters!! They are great and we may have thought of something or already dealt with something that we may be able to help you. They are a great resource.
another great resource…books. Arm yourself, for no or in the future.
Pam,
My heart goes out to you. I just wanted to let you know I was here and I am thinking of you and your family.
Hugs,
SSAs always thanks so much for all of your helpful posts. I need to become more legally aware and smart. I feel hopeless at times I mean at least 2 sisters on here – Flora and Sunny, had court appointed psych evals that still resulted in JC of kids, no supervision necessary. And like you said, at least that decision will be on the court system, with checks and balances and close watch of what happens to them when with the X SAH. I need to face my custody fears in a divorce battle and ready myself.
Flora thanks a million. Regarding the sociopath/antisocial personality. My SAH is definitely that. So is his mother. It is downright scary. It is absolutely frightening to divorce one of these guys–I mean mess with any one who is “pathic” anything–I am downright scared. And should be.
The kick to the curb– ladies if it were just that easy. He’s on the deed. I am on the deed. He won’t leave. even if I change the locks, he will show up with county sheriff, trust me. I have no legal remedies there.
Also want to say– the check incident. Definitely back dated. I believe in my gut, that my SAH as of Sunday, got drunk, cruised for sex, hired a tranny and did cocaine. that is his holy trio. Then he returns home. Lies. dissociates himself from his behavior, and actually believes his own lies. People like that are capable of murder. they really are. Or any dark deed, because they can dissociate, and go on as normal.
If and when I file. I fear desperate attempts, stalking, and financial moves that I would never anticipate, manipulations, false allegations to get my daughter away from ME, just for power, etc.
I feel like I will never win anything worth a damn. SAH is amazing in court. He has won many times where he had no business winning. I feel doomed from the get go. I fear him as an opponent. I fear retaliation. I fear how dark his dark side is and what he is actually capable of , once he knows tht I am done. I even fear that if he is on a bender, I will end up in the morgue.
How do I prove that I am the sane one here? I keep thinking hidden cameras so the court can see what crazy I am living with.
BTW — on lighter side. I told SAH last night I was going to “bookstore, the movies and a bible study” LOL. sent txt just like that. Obvious tongue in cheek there. I stayed out until 1 am, visited to completely fab restaurants, had sushi and sake, then strolled on the beach under the stars and got my head clear. Went home slept in other room.
He is still apologizing for his behavior. But you know what it just doesn’t cut it anymore. I don’t want anymore fkng apologies. I want man on board train recovery with all of his might. This guy cannot live without his addictive shit, i believe. no longer than 60 days anyway. It is the most I will ever get of sobriety.
I also wanted to add, I hope this does not sound corny, but I believe that God showed me something.
I don’t have to love this person anymore. I can forgive, not be bitter, but I do not have to love in that intimate, committed way that a wife does. I have so far, continued my love and committment to him in the marriage. But I don’t have to do that anymore. I am detaching. for lack of a better word. detaching that special vulnerable love you have for a trusted person. I actually feel pretty good . thanks for prayers. they are workingDear Pam-C, So sorry to hear of this recent turn of events. You’re in my thoughts and prayers. Love, Liza
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