- This topic has 28 replies, 12 voices, and was last updated 12 years, 11 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
So my SA’s therapist posted a new article on his site that kind of stuck in my craw. I’d like for y’all to read it and comment, if you’re so inspired. My own comment–basically saying some of us DO NOT need any more character building experiences in our lives and see NO silver lining of opportunity here–is being held for moderation at the moment. This guy, Bill Herring, is himself a recovering SA and is the one I told you had been working with Steffens and Minwalla to learn more about the experience of partners. He’s offering a support group for those of us in Atlanta. He’s trying, I know. But it looks like he still has some to learn. Here’s the link to his article:
http://billherring.info/atlanta_counseling/forging-iron-in-a-time-of-crisis
HI March
Well in a general objective sense, the article has some value. In that, crisis can indeed form new character, a more solid life, etc. Crisis’ are opportunities to change.
However, with respect to SA, betrayal etc., while even if that is true, even if we ARE being reformed, it was by the suffering of another, accountability is missing here. If I am an addict and need to change my life to save my marriage, self and children, I need the hammer. I need to be put under fire to change. Or, perhaps the consequences of my negative behavior will do that for me.
However, when we are victimized, as we all have been by this, I don’t see how the “intense” heat even if it gives me fortitude down the line, is justified. It’s like, oh I am so glad you cheated, now I am stronter than ever. Or that bologne, our marriage is better after he had an affair. REally? I mean it could be possible, but did I really need someone to have an affair to point out the weak spots?
So in general, nothing wrong with what he said, had some value. But in specifics to partners, well, sorry chump, there aint’ no rainbow waiting for me after my “re moulding” from all the hammering and melt down. I do not percieve my life as better after learning about his habit. In many ways, it is worse. My innocence cannot be re learned. I miss my former shape, thank you.
Thanks for the link march, I posted my two cents worth, let’s see if he allows it. Here’s what I wrote–short and sweet:
I am trying to appreciate your willingness to embrace the trauma felt by partners of Sex Addicts, which I find refreshing, but your analogy is quite offensive to me. I have survived the life changing crisis of discovery of my husband’s Sex Addiction, but I can truthfully say that this experience did nothing to enhance my life or in any way make my life healthier, stronger or more stable.
It was pure hell, and the only way I did survive was because I was already healthy, strong and stable.
I feel that this type of rhetoric should be directed toward the Sex Addict, not the partners, as it is much more appropriate for them.
My thoughts, JoAnn, but you said all so much more succinctly and elegantly.
Pam, I gave him that we can all afford to learn and grow, yes. But I didn’t need THIS for that.
Well you don’t have to scratch too far with these guys to find the addict brain alive and well. What an idiot!
Yes, the woman i just had in my office who was raped by every male member of her family, “needed” that life crisis.
The woman with a crushed face in the ER, beaten by her fiance, whose hand I held while she wait for the plastic surgeons to tell what they could do to save her face–yeah she needed a life crisis all right.These assholes are still trying to justify what they did by making it “good for us”. Their abuse is a part of the universe’s plan to heal us. HOw dare they presume to elevate their abuse to anything more than it is?
I can think of someone who needs a life crisis.
Not to sound flippant but if dealing with your spouse’s sex addiction is considered to be ANYWHERE along the road of building character I choose to cast my lot with the shallow people thank you.
Well I’m the dog with the bone. And I don’t apologize for that anymore.
After posting my response, he is electing to side step the major theoretical issue that people “need” a life crisis. I can’t stand it with the same old diminishing of our responses. So I’m back on it, and I don’t expect he will be quite so “chummy” when I hold him to account. They just hate that. But I honestly think he’s dangerous with this approach. It means he always has a reason why he doesn’t have to actually listen to your experience—because apparently it’s what you need.This is a PERFECT EXAMPLE of a so called “recovered SA”. This is as good as it gets for these dudes. It will ALWAYS be ALL about them. He may as well tell a battered woman that her husband beating the shit out of her is a good opportunity for her to develop her character. I ask any one of you? How many of you feel that having a whatever these guys are for a husband has improved your quality of life. Scary that this is someone offering treatment to another sick person. This whole SA treatment is even MORE scary. This guy cannot even address the comments without making them about himself.
Oh Yeah,
I don’t think this guy should be anywhere near partners requiring support March. He is nowhere near to knowing what we need and probably is no more capable of knowing what we need than your H is. It is like the blind leading the blind. Maybe he is trying but he just doesn’t get it.
I don’t think I would ever trust a recovering sex addict as a councelar for spouses. Case inpoint. It does not make him at all capable of treating a spouse. He is however capable of treating the addict.
Love,
FloraI don’t know Flora. Seems to me that these guys are good enough at minimizing their conduct without banding together in a group and convincing themselves that their deplorable treatment of their wives is a silver lining because in the end it will forge her character or become her ship on her voyage of self discovery. 🙁
Ugh…it may be true that because we ARE healthy and strong, we use this crap as grist for the mill. But I would contend that is simply what we do– with whatever happens to us, because we have integrity and character. We dont need abuse or betrayal to put us on the journey to self improvement and growth. At least the women on this site seem to already be travelling that path. From my perspective our partners wasted opportunities to start their journey (if in fact they DO ever start) every time they chose to be deceptive. Not to mention that the trama they caused us created unneccessary suffering, and more likely is an impediment to our evolution, even if it is an impediment we overcome. My 2 cents.
Ya know, reading his responses I really do think he is trying. And I think that the attitude he is espousing is a nice way to make lemonade from lemons and is valid. It just doesnt necessarily fit our situations, or if it does, it needs to be a perpesctive that we take on (seems we already have) and not one that is thrust upon us or used by an addict to minimize or “pretty up” their actions. I think he hit a raw nerve.
I read his other article “Partners of the chronically unfaithful” It made me feel even more that none of these 12 step therapists will ever embrace the trauma model and that they are simply trying yet again to subsume our experience under the sex addicts. This guy wants to blend the 2 models together…probably because he just cann’t let go of his 12 step mantra. I don’t think he would last more than 10 minutes heading up a support group that included us. 😉 I am curious what the rest of you think of that article.(its alot longer) Not that I want to divert from March’s topic.
I couldn’t agree more Bonnie. If anything this experience has stunted my growth. 😉Well what can we say? Another day, another addict spewing nonsense at the mouth. Next he’ll have his own tv show.
okay, dog with a bone.
i posted one more, and we’ll see if he puts it up.
WHY did I do this?
Because he left my second post which challenged his argument that some “often need a life crisis”. Then he did a complete denial in his response that he said that. Some time later he rewrote that section without admitting that he did. So the slimebag left it looking like my point wasn’t backed up, and his patronizing “oh my goodness,no,” “oh my heavens” is the final word.
IN short this guy just couldn’t admit he did what did and it meant what it meant. Does this sound familiar?
Anyway I tried to be positive in my post, but also crystal clear.March, you are a mensa meeting compared to this guy. How can he be your counsellor?
Hello all,
Had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Minwalla today – he is so darned refreshing. He told me that he’s going to be my “cheerleader” to stand up to the emotional abuse that my SA husband has been spewing of late. Yeah!!! It flies in the face of the “stay on your side of the street” thing from the co-addict model. I’m really torn – my therapist (and my group therapist) thinks that I should work on myself and see what happens with my SA…but I did set boundaries last week that I know I need to follow through on (e.g. that in order to stay in the house my husband has to go to a 12 step program, work on a formal disclosure with a CSAT, and go to the one day partner trauma day with Dr. Minwalla on April 14. My hubby has gone to 2 CSATs and lied to me and told me that both told him he’s not an SA – ughhh, and won’t let me talk to either one of them because he says that “I’m on a witchhunt”). As my hairdresser who has known us for 12 years so eloquently said to me (after I told her the extent of his acting out behavior: “either he’s a sex addict, or he’s an asshole”. Who needs a therapist when you have such an astute hairdresser?
Anyway – I probably should be starting a new topic, but I’m new and don’t know how to do that yet (so excuse me for piggybacking on this topic). I guess it’s somewhat related because it includes Dr. Minwalla’s comment. Dr. Minwalla told me that I need to get strong and stick to my boundaries – and tell my SA to stop lying and abusing me (he loves to gaslight and rage lately). Then – another CSAT told me that he’s getting there – two steps forward, one step back and that I should treat him like an alcoholic in denial. Not sure whether to take the “wait and see” approach – or the hammer one. Any advice out there?
A little bit of background: after a year of staggered disclosures and discoveries last year – most half truths followed by “spinning” facts – and what I think is likely the truth: a year of prostitutes a few years ago, escalating to 2 affairs (most recent one was from Jan to March last year), an emotional affair (including sexting) that went on for 1.5 years and ended in Sept. last year, while we were supposedly working hard on our marriage after what I thought was one emotional affair…oh and then there is the CL ad responses and one CL rendevous from previous year that I discovered in Sept.
The onion starting peeling a year ago when he asked me for a divorce (out of the blue), under the guise that I wasn’t paying him enough attention (turns out that affair partner wouldn’t sleep with him unless he was “separated)). This affair partner was 70 with grey hair (no lie) – looked just like his mother and actually stalked me (joy!). He is 48. He is a covert incest survivor (with his mom) and he is currently working with a trauma therapist to work through this – but after visiting 2 CSATs and lying on the SDI – he swears that both told him that he’s not a SA – and after going to 6 SAA meetings – he swears his sponsor told him that he isn’t an SA since he doesn’t have daily urges (likely a fabrication of his imagination), so he stopped going a few weeks ago.
So – what the heck to do? Tell him to shape up or ship out? Or wait for his trauma therapist to push him along to a 12 step program again and back into reality?
I did read in his email diary to himself that he did feel the urge to have sex with someone else on Jan. 3 (he tried to lie about that, but I saved it). He also tried to delete the CL ad that I found on his computer from last year – looking for an “inquisitive older woman”. Ughh. As I write this, I realize just how black and white this is.
Although he agrees that he has a “compulsion for woman” – and can’t say “no” to weak and vulnerable woman (he can’t answer how the pros and CL ads fit into this model), he isn’t a sex addict since he doesn’t think about it every day – and will NEVER do it again. (he says that there is too much on the line, and he is working on his “mother” issue.
Any advice my dear sisters?
Deb
Dear Deb,
No real advice except to take care of yourself and dont buy into the bullshit. Sex addict=compulsion. We can quibble about the semantics (and do), but regardless of what we call it, it looks the same, destructive, deceptive sexually acting out, coupled with denial and a host of other things that basically guarantee that there will be more in the future (relapse).
Glad you are here. Whether you try to work it out or start an exit plan, you are going to need support and understanding.
Hugs to you!
BonnieDear Deb,
With the extra details…a HAMMER most definately. If you take the wait and see approach YOU will be 70 and have grey hair. It has no bearing how often he wants to f–k senior women ( we are trying to use more honest terms instead of “acting out” because those words make it sound like he wants to play hopscotch with them) in terms of making him SA or not. At this point you cannot accept ANYTHING he says as truth without absolute proof…preferably from an outside source like your own eyes.Thats my 2 cents. karen xx
Dear Deb:
Thanks for sharing your experience. I am with KMF. Wait and see— means wait for more abuse and acting out. Now look, we all have desires, I have been attracted to other men during my marriage. I even wanted to sleep with them–but I kept my vows and stayed loyal. Addiction is not about never desiring someone other than your partner (although that would be nice.) It is about not engaging in extra marital sex, lies, sexting porn, being deceitful and blaming your spouse for your own behavior. As far as CSAT?
Well my personal opinion is that it is the CSAT’s OWN ego talking. they want to think their patient is making progress because of the therapists own investment of time, and working with someone. Otherwise the therapist is a failure. ANd most times, well they just are. An alcoholic in denial? Well I think it’s ok to say no more denial. An alocholic in recovery and is/has been/will continue to live sober– well that is different. Otherwise, smoke and mirrors, gaslighting and BS.
Go with Dr Minwalla. Someone who will stand up for YOU. The csat won’t, in my experience. The whole model is broken. You can’t fix broken part with broken/wrong tools.
One other thing Id like to add–“daily urges” is not the criteria for SA, so either he is very ill informed or not being straight with you.
March, that therapist pissed me a bit off. Not horrendously, because as others said, he does seem to be trying and to be responding to comments and suggestions. But still.. I am so sick of the focus being turned on us to any degree when it comes to their farking sex addiction. My comment to him:
With all due respect, I think you are taking a bit of a Pollyanna approach to this, assuming that you are mainly talking about the crisis of discovering one’s partner is a sex addict.
When a person’s core beliefs have been shattered, e.g., the belief that their life partner was trustworthy, I don’t believe they/we necessarily come out all the stronger as a result of this crisis. We come out changed, yes. But personally I don’t much like the way I am changing; I much preferred being trusting. I would not say that I am stronger as a result of learning my partner had a secret life. Shattered, irrevocably changed, disillusioned, distrustful.. not ‘stronger.’
And I don’t quite get what you mean about ‘the person reflected back in the mirror.’ It rings too much of the very mistaken idea that we, the partners, are somehow involved in our partners’ addiction, that we are supposed to look at ourselves when we’ve discovered that our partner is not who we thought they were. For what? Having done the very natural thing of trusting the person we shared our life with? What is it about sex addiction that makes so many professionals in the field turn the tables back onto us, the partners? If our partner had a secret gambling or drug addiction that we did not know about, would we then also be expected to look at ourselves? The phrase ‘the buck stops here’ comes to mind. Certainly we all have our flaws, our problems, our limitations, but when one’s life has been shattered by discovery of sex addiction, this is not the time to tell traumatized partners how much stronger they will be as a result of this devastation, and how we need to take this time to look at our own weaknesses. It really is very surreal to me how much this kind of thinking prevails in the field of sex addiction.I attende the six day intensive of DR.Minwalla the third week in jan-HE TRULY UNDERSTANDS WE HAVE BEEN TRAUMATIZED-that yes we are victims and they are the perpetrators.He has developed 12 MODULES to deal with this devestating.life changing bullshit that got dumped on us-i had been to cosa, alanon, my therapist, his thearpist and finally our thearpist-i didnt understand what had happened to me and us.Hell everyone had him pegged as a sa-and i was a coaddict-bullshit-I went to this intensive not knowing what i would find-but it was about finding my truth not his truth-this week was not spent on him, but on my healing as a atrauma victim.The day everything blew-and i mean my mind-i felt it explode-i have felt untreated-i finally found some help-it is much to long and in depth to go into-but i would gladly answer any questions-and yes there was a sa that was one of our therapists-that had many many years of sobriety-if he was brave enough to come into the lions den-to help open this area-of recognizing and treating the trauma caused by this nightmare-then i was ok-and he was great.This is an area that few therapists are willing to acknowledge much less treat-i flew a long way there because i was wanting help for me-and i got it-may g-d bless us all-
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.