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He has them….things like me not mentioning the word divorce because it brings up his abandonment issues. (even though I think we are headed there and am trying desperately to fix our marriage) and not to talk about “what he has done” because it isnt safe for him, I am “too emotional”.
The truth is that I dont want to talk about what he has done. The only time I do is to try to paint a picture in the hopes that there will be some empathy, some tenderness….
Anyway, I hate his boundaries because a) they seem like boundaries that keep out relationship, that his boundaries are a lock. But mostly if I am honest, I hate his boundaries because b) I dont seem to have any myself anymore. I think Karen said something in another post about surrending our bottom line, bit by bit. Thats ME! No self appreciation or self respect. Not really, just lip service, left over ideas of who I USED to be…
SL (Patty) called me a wimp a while back in a post. And I understood, but I really felt like you were wrong– Im not a wimp or a doormat. But I am and you werent wrong. Thats what I have become.
I feel so heartbroken and rejected and I try so hard not to be in that space, but I AM. And it makes me needy and pathetic. It makes me desperate…
I just want him to understand how I feel. and to be sorry. and to be kind. To help me heal.
But he isnt going to understand. and he cant feel that sorry. he resents me…it feels so wrong, and so ironic, but that is the truth….If he ever saw who I really am, he has long since forgotten. He sees the bitch he has had to manufacture in his head so that he could live with himself while he acted out.
Im not going to change his vision of me. It doesnt matter how much love I pour on the situation. And actually I dont have any more to pour…I need love and understanding for myself. I dont have anymore to give.
Heidi–I wish I could find the post where you said something like “he isnt sad and desperate. he isnt the one on antidepressants, I am.” anyway, I read that post and I didnt want to relate to it. I didnt want it to be me, but it is. I am the one who is sad and desperate. He is fine… It might not be my idea of fine. But for him it works.
We had a record of five days without talking after a fight the week before last (I was trying to have boundaries) and then last week we were both travelling. Tonight he came home and I felt sad and insecure. Tonight I felt needy. Tonight I was sensitive. Tonight I yelled out in a desperate attempt for him to please understand. “put yourself in my shoes….what if I fucked other people, what if you saw graphic text exchanges, what if I didnt want to have sex with you..yada yada yada (in all its graphic glory)! What would you want to hear? How would you want to be treated!!!” It made him angry. It crossed his boundaries. He asked me to leave him alone. I didnt. I begged and pleaded…and in between my begging and pleading I listened to him blame and criticize and mock me. I listened because I was hoping for a chance to turn it around. Not the whole marriage, but at least the night…That if I listened to him, he would try to listen to me. He said he only gets nasty when I refuse to leave him alone. I didnt stop trying to reason with him. I was pathetic. I was disgraceful. I am broken…I am broken….
And then finally I had pushed him to far and he yelled out that he is “filing for divorce!” and went up to the spare room…. And I followed. Dear God, I followed! Afraid, sad…I made my voice as calm as I could and I asked him gently “do you really want a divorce? Please Robert, answer me. I love you” I am ridiculous…I am grovelling…maybe he needs to take it out of my hands.
I thought I had a game plan from my therapy session this week, to hold my truth and stand my ground. To have boundaries. But I know that if I have boundaries or bottom line needs, they wont be honored. Not anymore than I guess I honored his… I know deep down that I am not worth it TO HIM. And I have been grossly in denial about the toll this has taken on my self esteem. Its in the toilet. Now I get to be the sick one…:-(Oh, and the coup de grâce is that he isnt going to take anymore of MY abuse! I feel insane. If I wasnt so devastated I would cackle dementedly for hours.
Oh Bonnie!! I am so heart broken for you! I am sorry if I hurt you by calling you a wimp! I remember the post too. I just couldn’t understand why you were trying to cater to his needs instead of your own!!
And screw him and his boundaries!! HE HAS BOUNDRIES?? Since when?? He can’t even honor his marriage vows! As far as I’m concerned, he doesn’t deserve to have BOUNDRIES!! Ugh!!
I am so sorry that you are hurting this bad. This SA business sure can take a toll, as we all sadly know. It sounds like you are hitting the bottom. (when it should be HIM hitting rock bottom!!) (Easier said than done!) I hope there is a way that we can help you, Bonnie. Don’t be so hard on yourself! Most of us, at one time or another have tried to get consolence (is that a word?) from our SA’s. I think it’s natural, even though it doesn’t make sense! It’s just that none of us (at least at first) wanted to even consider divorce!! How devastating! But Bonnie, you need to get your old self back! She is in there somewhere!! I know that you want to love and respect yourself again. Unfortunately, the only way to get there is to put on your best armor, your brave face, and your big girl panties (JK) and reclaim your life! You do NOT need or deserve this abuse…and the way he is treating you is abusive in my book. Let him make his threats! Detach if you can…. What’s the worst that can happen? He divorces you?? Good riddance, dude!!
Keep posting and talking this through! You are in a dark place right now, but with the right help and some clarity and a little courage on your part, this nightmare can be over for you. I will be thinking of you and sending good energy your way! Let us help you get through this mess! YOU are worth it, sister! XO!!
Love, SL
PS- you are NOT the sick one- HE is! You are NOT abusive- HE is! You KNOW this. Don’t listen to his BS anymore!! He is out of control. He is trying to take you down with him! Don’t let him!
Also, Heidi’s comment that you were looking for is under new Mom’s post “how can I stop comparing?”
Bonnie, there was a post back when I first came on here where we were sharing the kinds of ridiculous things we’ve done along the lines of what you just wrote. I talked about following my SA into the closet, crying and screaming; someone else (ZG, Heidi) had kicked her SA down the stairs (most awesome)…In all instances, it was times when we weren’t “ourselves,” kind of like an out-of-body experience, or the appearance of our pathetic twin (as opposed to evil twin). So many of us have been there: groveling, pleading, screaming, crying, doing ANYTHING to try to get through to these men who have damaged us and all we hold dear. Be kind to yourself. As for him and HIS boundaries, he needs to clear those with a therapist, ’cause they’re pure bullshit. Why don’t you come up with some random nonsense list, like: 1. I won’t live in a house with condiments. 2. I won’t live with someone who uses the word “butter.” 3. I won’t be in a room where the windows are open more than a 1-inch crack. 4. I will not listen to anyone who whistles. 5…
Oh yes, March! Zumba kicked the door open and Heidi kicked that asshole down the steps as he was leaving!! (and she has these awesome long legs too!) and Zgirl runs marathons so she has strong, muscular, awesome legs too! As for me, I screamed nonstop at the TOP of my lungs for one hour and called him an asshole like 100 times….so close to his face that I’m sure he could feel my spit! I had barely raised my voice to that man our entire marriage- and 17 long years of built up emotion was released in that one hour! Oh yeah, and I think my head spun around at least twice!!! (for REAL!!) And if you really want some juicy dirt on me- go read my “story” titled Read It And Weep! I did such bad stuff- I am so ashamed and can’t even bear to SAY it again! So Bonnie, like March said, be easy on yourself! At least now you are starting to recognize that this is unhealthy for you and what you do with THAT is the most important thing going forward. And that’s what we are doing every day….going forward!
Thank you thank you thank you!!! SL–you didnt hurt me by saying I was a wimp. I understood the point you were making and read it for the “pep talk” it was. I just didnt take it to heart if that makes sense. Thank you for helping me because right now I really need it. This does feel like rock bottom. It feels very dark and lonely and I am grateful for the voices who understand…Noone really understands like the women here. Thank you.
March, if I get a divorce can I marry you? “I wont live with someone who uses the word “butter”” made me laugh at a time when I cant stop crying. THANK YOU.
A friend recently met someone who just discovered her partner was an SA. She asked if it would be okay to give her my contact info, of course I said yes. Last night she finally called and left a message. I want to meet her and tell her to run. Run fast and far…the longer you stay, the further down it takes you. I want to warn her and hope she will listen. Even as I didnt listen to some of you. Even as I may not listen now “if” he is willing to stay with me. Ha! Because I am very likely to sign up for as much heartache and abuse as he is willing to dish out, so long as I get my crumbs.
I want to stop. Why cant I just let go? Please help me to let go.You will get there in your own time, dear girl. Perhaps sooner than you think? Maybe you should think about taking some of your own advice?? Practice what you preach, sister!!! 🙂
I believe you are in therapy, right?! What about antidepressants??
And by all means, be sure to discuss all of this with your therapist!!
Those ARE NOT boundaries. They do not fit the definition. He is manipulating and controlling and calling it a boundary.
It’s the height of arrogance.
Bonnie,
I can feel the sadness and pain in your post, it’s very profound. I remembering doing the exact same thing (numerous times) with my x h only to be rejected, pushed away, and emotionally abused. I always felt by doing this I compromised my integrity which made me feel even worse.My therapist told me I was like a little puppy that would go in the house, get kicked around, get kick out, then go back inside for more. I realized I was allowing this mistreatment and I had to not allow it. I have had to the same with my mother too.
Bonnie, you’re a really neat woman and so kind. I have been patiently waiting for you to finish ‘your story’ you started a while back. If you’re not able to I understand.
Bonnie you need to get your groove back. Abuse of any kind is a deal breaker in any relationship. The toll he is taking on you is too great. Pain, hurt, rejection, are not hallmarks of love. Love doesnt push us away. Love wants to heal, be kind, and close.
Love, Nap
Dear Nap–thank you for being a kind and wise sister. You are right of course, I feel just like that puppy. And I do feel much worse later. I am trying to get strong and to heal. Im so glad today to have this site to come to.
I will finish my story. It takes alot out of me to revisit it, and seems like “too much” but I know that telling it and being here is moving me along. Even if it is at a snails pace. Thank you.Oh my goodness! I remember those posts March! And may I just add I was scrying my head off last Friday and making like a devil woman at my SA/PDH. And I’m an ugly scryer.
Part of that whole scene was not unlike yours Bonnie. I STILL make the mistake of thinking my feelings and experience will mean something to him. But I can’t dent him with me. Neither can you. We bounce off them, bruised and broken. This is why they ALWAYS seem to have the upper hand. They are just unaffected by our emotional pain, our experience of injustice, our human need for real interaction.
So when we stop scrying and spitting into their faces, then we try the opposite end of the emotional spectrum and try to love them, but they still aren’t interacting with us. They just recognize the “love talk” intellectually as the opportunity to take advantage another way.
As far as letting go, my precious sister Bonnie, it’s a real bugger. But like I always say….it starts with the first step. I think for you, maybe you need to imagine life without him. Imagine yourself living in a place without his crazy. See the day unfold in your mind. See yourself living and thriving.Do you write in a journal? I’m a complete nut about this. As someone who writes everyday I used to hate the journal thing, but when I started with my therapist a few months after d-day, I started writing. It’s has been a lifesaver as far as keeping me on track, realizing what I’ve learned and gaining confidence to believe I can exist, I can even live without him in my life. Make a commitment to your self to write. Its a small step. And it’s a doozzy.
thank you Bonnie for opening up to all of us about how it feels to be you. You have helped others on this site without even knowing it.
love and light,
Diane.If you are like me, putting it on paper and then reading it as a spectator can really show you just how ridiculous your life has become and almost forces you to make changes- if nothing else to save your soul!!
Bonnie- you encouraged me to go back and read MY story! Yikes! I HAVE came a long way! I’m not even that person any more! I got ME back and you can too!! I want that for you! Keep posting! Good luck and lots of love!! XO!
Diane–thank you. Bouncing off, yes it is the perfect analogy. Im not getting through. Please dont give up on us slow learners…Even if I am a contradiction, a waffler and a wimp, Im listening. And yes, I will write. I cant believe how much I need all of you right now. Thank you.
Never giving up on you or anyone, Bonnie. Never Never Never.
But yes, I like that line I just wrote, “I can’t dent him with me”.Oh Bonnie, my heart just breaks for you. And no worries about the out-of-control behavior. I would venture that to be a true, card-carrying member of the Sisterhood, one has to go completely ape-shit crazy on these m*thafuckers at least one or ten times. God knows I have earned my Sisterhood Card. I remember shortly after Dday being in a car with SA – we were out in the middle of the AZ desert in the middle of the night. I was driving and screaming and scrying. The louder I screamed, God help me, the faster I drove. I know I hit at least 100 + mph. It’s a miracle we didn’t wreck and die, but at the time, I would NOT have cared. Fastest trip to Phoenix E-VAH! Anyway, Bonnie, you have now earned your merit badge for Fighting Back (the only way you knew how to – at the time). Now it’s time to work on your merit badge for Recovering Bonnie -by recovering the One and True Authentic Bonnie you once were. Do that and I promise you’ll find your self-respect on the way. Love, Liza
Dear Bonnie,
Oh dear…you are in a bad place BUT know you are not alone? EVERY single one of us has engaged in the utterly futile behavior of attempting to reach for compassion in these men. We have ALL failed spectacularly. Why? Because if they had a shred of humanity, they would be unable to do the things they have done to you, in the first place. Some of us may vary in our approach..for example..I preferred to rage at my H and verbally flay the skin off him..but underneath that rage I was also looking for him to understand my pain and what he had done to me. The hard truth, Bonnie, is they are NEVER going to understand and they do NOT want to understand. This is the primary reason why there can be no closure in these sick, sick relationships . Most of us are looking for an explanation or vindication for why another person would do these horrible things to us. That explanation is NEVER coming, Bonnie, because in order to give one they would have to examine their own treachery and they couldn’t care less. In my opinion, the very most you can expect to get from them is lip service if you are lucky and maybe a few crocodile tears if they think you are leaving them. They are full blown abusers so make no mistake about that. What you are doing is no different than a woman wanting the guy who blackened her face to hold her later and make the pain go away. 🙁 I know that you know this on a rationale level but the pain you feel is at an emotional level and is what makes it so damn hard.
I won’t waste my time telling you to just walk away because I know you are not ready yet bt you are getting into dangerous territory here. He completely has the upper hand and he is a nasty little cockroach with his bogus boundaries. I believe that every single one of these toads has a mantra that includes us NEVER being able to bring up what they did. The sooner we realize that we are coming at this from completely different angles than they are, the sooner we know how to counter move. WE want change. WE want them to change. WE want them to treat us differently. WE want a different relationship. THEY want NOTHING to change because with the status quo they get EVERYTHING they need. THEY like treating us the way they do- it is their nature to hurt and control.THEY like the relationship exactly as it is- that way they do all the taking and we do all the giving. If they cannot have the relationship the way it is they are just as likely to want to create another with someone else. When you have a couple with completely conflicting goals it can only be chaotic and confusing. The confusion is ,of course, because they say one thing but mean something entirely else. They are not stupid enough to reveal their agenda. It falls to you to work it out based on their behavior, which invariably does not match their words.
I am afraid that every single woman here has to find her own path because every single one thinks HER husband is different…until she doesn’t? We employ different tactics. Some of us try to love them into being loving. Some of us try to rage them into being loving. Some of us try to manipulate them into being loving and some of us try to mother them into being loving. We all fail in the end because we are attempting to turn abusers into lovers. It can never work because they love the game and they play it on their own terms. You cannot beat these guys. You cannot beat them and you cannot win. Your ONLY chance is to NOT play their game. In order to do that you have to really see them for what they are. Until you do…your are simply hypnotized by their bullshit,much like staring into the dead eyes of a snake. Actually, that comparison is an insult to the snake.
Hang in there with us Bonnie. We have your back and you are safe here. Karen xxBonnie – a partner of an SA told me that during the early stages of recovery – an SA will absolutely HATE you – he is reminded of the shame and his evil/absent core of a being. Imagine that? You are a constant reminder of what a screw up he is.
Another wise partner of an SA told me that she was very happy not to be around her SA for a year into his recovery. During that first year (or two or three) SAs are seriously nuts and they will suck you into their abyss (if we let them).
If you have to live with him – then keep your distance. Realize that he has NOTHING to give right now. No empathy, no love, nothing – because he has nothing inside except his addiction and self-hatred. It’s like trying to squeeze water out of a dry towel. He’s got to work through that on his own.
As he recovers (if he does) – then the man you loved and yearn for may return. Just try and keep your focus away from him if possible. I know that’s a very difficult task as we are hurt, traumatized, and need love and reassurance – but it’s like hitting your head against the wall. Please go take that head for a yummy hair treatment, to a therapist, a massage or to a movie or whatever helps you find your value. Get a cat or a dog (they will give you unconditional love).
It’s a waiting game. Decide how long you are willing to wait – mark it on your calendar and then go on with your life.
You also might want to enlist the help of someone that can help both of you set healthy boundaries as you recover.
BTW – I’ve been where you are – a year ago to the day when my SAH was screwing yoganana, I suspected it and I slept with him anyway….yuck! I would go into the room he was sleeping in and beg him to hold me. I was desperate for love and attention from a guy that was hurting me beyond belief. I realize now that comes from my own childhood of emotional abuse, neglect and abandonment – and I’m working on it. Do you maybe have something like that from your childhood? Just something to consider.
Deb
Karen, Liza, Deb–thank you all. everything everyone has said has been helpful. In fairness to him, he coldly told me last night that he had nothing to offer me–no empathy or warmth, but I kept prying, scrounging for it.
Karen–he does have the upper hand. Its horrible. I still care, I still want, I still hope, I still think he is different. Now I have added to the list, that Im discovering that somewhere inside I believe his blaming and criticisms–its why I rage against them so hard. Everyone of you is right. Everyone of you is kind. I wish I could go unconscious and let one of you drive my life, just long enough to get me to the otherside. I have never felt this incapable, crippled. Thank you for being touch points of sanity.I wish I could drive your life too, Bonnie because the first thing I would do is RUN HIM OVER, the SOB. You are going to be ok, Bonnie. Cut yourself some slack. If the godess Dinae can be driven to screaming and hurling abuse…the rest of us barely stand a chance. Try to completly ignore him. When he comes sniffing around…don’t believe a word he says. Try to coccoon inwards..so he cannot reach you. It will buy you some time.Remember, he is actually very weak. He has no power except the power you are giving to him. Karen xx
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