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My, My My…..I am continually astonished by the BS we tell ourselves so we can stay with these assholes. These guys must smirk all the way to the next “slip”. No affair partner, hooker or craigslist hook up could POSSIBLY be as much fun to f–k over as we are.
Agreed KMF. I do believe they know exactly what they are doing, and enjoy it. how powerful they must feel each time the wool is pulled over our eyes. i believe it is all a conscious choice – planned and excuted. these guys don’t do things accidentally. they just dont.
Someone asked about my addiction, and I responded. I treated a 21-yr-old boy–college student who coached kids’ soccer. Reminded me of my son, such the boy-next-door. He was in the hospital because he became addicted to prescription pain killers after an injury. He’d already stolen $300,000.00 from his parents. Things seemed great when he left rehab; he seemed to be in strong recovery. A month later, he returned addicted to heroin. He looked like a street person. He was ruined. His family was ruined. That’s what addiction looks like.
It’s important for me to note: I am NOT advocating for staying. I think they become monsters–that they’re dangerous and will hurt us if we get in their way. They’ve proven that. ANd I’m the FIRST one to chime in about how I’ve NEVER met a woman who left her SA and regretted it or who stayed and was truly happy. The smart thing is to get out. Absolutely. But I DO think it’s an addiction. I was convinced of that a couple of days after discovery, when I got his phone records and saw the hundreds of calls to sex chat lines—at 7 a.m., on his way to WORK, at 5 p.m., on his way home, at lunch, when he was supposed to be working out at the Y or at Home Depot….Stupid phone sex with stupid voices, saying ridiculous things he whacked off to. PAGES of these calls. That didn’t look like fun to me. It looked like sickness.
March – I do think that it begins as “fun” and as self soothing…..then the brain chemistry thing kicks in and they lose control and it becomes a real sickness. They say that sex is the worst addiction because it involves 3 parts of the brain.
I’m curious – you control your alcohol addiction – do you think that SAs can do the same?
And interesting point about how addicts fool themselves….I think that’s where the SA blame, rationalization and minimization games come into play. The gas lighting – that’s a whole other level of sick game.
Deb
My husband is an alcoholic and drug addict. He has been sober for 17 years.
He was addicted to chewing tobacco. One day he woke up and said he was done. It’s been 5 years.
He was addicted to gambling, but he gave that up before I even met him. He said it was becoming detrimental to his life, so he stopped. He doesn’t even buy a lottery ticket.
He has had this sex addiction for a very long time. Most likely his whole life.
I’ve begged him to stop. I prayed for him to stop. I bargained for him to stop. He won’t/can’t stop. Mr. I can quit anything it’s just all about will power, won’t stop. He says he wants to, but he never does.
So he can control the things that he wants to control, but not what he still wants to do.
I think maybe because the person he hurts most by his sex addiction is me. The other addictions hurt him more. When you drink you spend too much money, feel sick, get OUIs. When you chew tobacco, your teeth get yucky and it is an expensive habit. When you gamble, you lose money.
When you fuck other people the only one that seems to be hurt by it is me.
Which means he is just selfish and doesn’t care about me.Or maybe the consequences of having sex with prostitutes or strangers aren’t immediate enough? They could get life-threatening illnesses from their behavior but that probably seems to be so remote a possibility to them or they could go to jail or lose their jobs but these things are not enough to get them to stop. My SAH was arrested for solicitation – went right back to work that afternoon. He found one of his stripper whores dead in her van from a drug overdose, went right back to work and right back at his “activities”. Is that addiction or a fucked up PD that allows him to compartmentalize these things and go right on being Mr. Corporate America and All-Around Good Guy? When I think of these things, that’s when I really question if he can actually change w/out intensive therapy. And he has pretty much ruled out an in-patient facility b/c he can’t take that time off of work. I’m at the point that I’m okay with that b/c I don’t want him to lose his 6 figure income b/c when we get divorced, I’ll get half of that. He’s spent enough of our money, we are entitled to every bit that is available. I feel sick even admitting to that but those are the types of things I think about as little bits of “payback” for what he’s done to me and my girls.
DeeDee – so proud of you for “the switch” being turned on. You have such a good attitude – “take your eyes off of him” – I’m going to repeat those words over & over b/c at times, I’m not so good at that.
Don’t count on the 6 figure income because mine was so bad he got fired from his job about 4 wks before the divorce was final. Married 25 yrs no support alimony income. Now he’s going to ‘Jr College’ and is in classes all day with woman 18,19, 20s his favorite age to ‘hunt’. (My daughters ages that he ‘forgot’ at Christmas) He’s studying for a 2 yr degree that is 90% woman and he’ll make $25,000 per yr. It’s amazing what they will do for their next fix.
That’s a good point – it hurts us more than it ever hurts them, and the consequences are never immediate.
I can’t remember exactly where I heard this, might have been in a book or an interview, but there’s a few sex addicts who have also been addicted to heroin. They said fighting the heroin addiction was a breeze compared to sex addiction. That recovering from SA is the hardest thing they’ve ever tried to do.
This is a very interesting topic. I’m just forming my understanding of it. So far, it appears that SA is an addiction, but it does seem different in ways, to me, anyway. When I was using and abusing and dependent on alcohol, there is no question that I rationalized my behavior and put myself and others at risk. But I knew I was doing it. Always. I knew exactly what I was doing. I hated myself for it, and that made me drink more, but I knew it. I agree that it was like a “mini-suicide” each and every night.
I know my guy rationalizes too, and tries to tell himself that it’s normal. But there are parts that I truly believe he does not know. He actually blacks parts out of his consciousness. I see it happening. He does it all the time, with things that he has no reason to lie about. He genuinely does not remember conversations we’ve had, sexual slips, etc. Sometimes. Most of the time he does and lies about it, but sometimes — and I am sure of this – it’s like he loses that memory entirely. Represses it, maybe?
Maybe SA is so hard to recover from because it stems from such deep and primary traumas? Sex is such a basic part of being alive; an addiction on this level just seems more primal to me than an alcohol or drug addiction that’s picked up in your teens. Sex is part of your identity; how you behave sexually is all wrapped up in how you see yourself, who you are. Of course, that’s true with drug and alcohol use, but it’s to a different extent, I think.
A common thread running through this forum is that these guys do things in their fantasy sex worlds that they would never dream of doing with us, the partners. Strap-ons and gay sex and multi-partner sex and all of that. Those seem like identity issues that go beyond addiction to me.
It’s a very strange animal, this SA. I need to know more about it, and you ladies are helping me to understand it from Ground Zero!
I think my SA mentally blocks/represses a lot too. The “I don’t remember” and “I don’t know” excuses are all lies, which he sometimes will admit. But there’s surely some level of deeper blocking that he does.
I realized mine doesn’t even give me the small ‘respect’ of the Madonna/Whore complex. You know… not even that…
Mine spent thousands of dollars on phone sex for girls to tell him how “bad” he was and berate him. Never once in 20 years has he ever approached me to ask anything even remotely like that. In fact, when I discovered this he said emphatically ( almost like he was afraid) that he did not want me to ever do that. It’s all so weird…
Anony, as to your statement “it appears that SA is an addiction”, I’m pretty sure the SOS Jury is still out on that one. 😉
Bev, I have a feeling you might have told him how ‘bad’ he was at least once or twice this year. 😉
Bev said, “when I discovered this he said emphatically ( almost like he was afraid)”
THAT is exactly what I am talking about. It’s like part of him is absolutely terrified at other parts of him. I’ve known lots of people addicted to substances, and never saw them act like that (doesn’t mean they didn’t, just means I didn’t see it). But I see this with him over and over, and the intensity of it is what makes an impression.
When I very first found out that the entirety of my relationship had been based on lies, HE acted like the one who was going through a traumatic event. It was physical for him. He was in total shock, couldn’t speak, and had this really scary glassy look in his eyes. He can’t remember the first disclosure to this day (it was a year ago). And he’d just been cheating on me that day — so he surely knew what he was doing, right? I mean, it shouldn’t have been a big shock to him to find out about it.
And I’m pretty sure that if I ever asked him if he wanted to do the things with me that he likes to watch on the computer, he would be more than disgusted. I think he would be afraid, and I don’t understand that.
liza, I’m sorry to be dense, but I can’t tell if you’re just kidding or not. Is the SOS Jury still out on that? I thought SA was a recognized, bona fide addiction. Am I missing something?
Hon, I’m as serious as a heart attack. There’s a faction of believers here on SOS who would bet our last dollar on them just being the biggest fucking assholes in the whole history of Assholism.
It absolutely is NOT recognized as a bona fide addiction. I am one of the loudest “it ain’t no damn addiction” people on here.
I will say it again. I believe it is their “default” position. When things get tough/happy/sad/hard…….run to your dick. I believe they have a serious problem. I believe they were traumatized in childhood. I believe they can be helped. I believe they can change. There is NO WAY IN HELL that I believe anybody is “addicted” to fucking hookers. Horse fuckin shit on that. I believe they are assholes.
Sorry, I get carried away. Anyone that wants or needs to call it an addiction…I have no problem with the terminology 🙂
Liza, I have turned the room blue with what I have told him this year 🙂
I don’t think it was the same as the phone sex gals….I need to practice 🙂
Anony and all,
NO.
Sex Addiction is NOT recognized as a bona fide addiction.
Most disorders in the DSM only become official diagnoses following lengthy periods of research and debate.
After 13 years of debate with over 1,500 medical experts, it was officially decided that Sex Addiction should not be included in the new DSM-5, in fact, it’s closest cousin, hypersexual disorder, has been removed from the new edition. (And, these panels of experts got a lot of pressure from the Carne’s camp to include it)
How many more expert opinions do we need?
It’s a symptom or a trait of an underlying disorder.
Compulsive behaviors, including sexual behaviors, are included in the criteria for diagnosis of Personality Disorders. It’s just one of the many things that they do that makes them who they are.
It should not be treated singularly. It needs to be viewed as a piece of the whole. Attempting to treat that one tiny piece will not solve the issue.
If you would like to see the criteria for diagnosing Personality Disorders, along with a comparison between the the DSM-IV and the DSM-5, just check out this link:
~ JoAnn
Honestly Nap..it is so damn sick. He paid people to tell him he was a pice of shit and “degrade” him. I swear , I could’ve saved him a lot of money….
Thank you JoAnn for putting it sanely!! I got on a tangent 🙂
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