- This topic has 46 replies, 14 voices, and was last updated 13 years, 6 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Hi sisters,
Hadj608’s forum on the lie detector test hit a nerve with a topic that I’ve been struggling with, which is the concept of disclosure. Primarily, I’m confused if it’s for the benefit of the SA or the partner. I can understand it being for the SA’s, in terms of really admitting and coming to terms with what they’ve done. As a partner, am I supposed to wait for SA to volunteer this info? My husband goes to 12 step meetings. I talked about disclosure with him a month or 2 ago, and he talked about the concept of admitting things as long as it would not hurt or injure another. I know many of us struggle with what seems to be the secrecy aspect of 12 step groups. But in some ways, it makes sense. As some of you may remember, my original d-day came from me discovering videos of my SA acting out with prostitutes (files he had stored on our home computer. They were locked, but I’m no dummy…figured it out without much trouble). I can’t tell you how traumatic that was. Do I need more disclosure than that? In other words, I think what I’m getting at, is that in terms of my own mental health, I’m not sure if full disclosure is the best thing for ME, as much as I want to move forward with an honest relationship, if at all possible. Thoughts?Hi ZG,
Personally for me I would want to know. I don;t need to know exact detail like who, what, where and when…but i would want to to know. Because past behavior is the best indicator of future behavior. And for me, i would want to know what exactly what that entails, so i can prepare myself. Not only that if you are staying with an SA, you need to know what he did before, so you can be on the look out for signs in the future. Lets say he was an alchoholic. He drank after work most day. You know if he is not coming home till late or coming home with alchohal on his breath, he has been drinking. So in part you may not want to know, but i think to be informed and a safe place, you should know. and for me it would be to protect me. I also would be aprehensive due to the legal nature of all this, if anything illegal was going on, i would want to know. There may be things that he has done that you would not get past, but these things are the creature you married. I know som elike to put their head in the sand, but i think to stay in a relationship with an SA an totally informed decision is the best decision. I would hate to find out down the road, that he has done things you could never get over, to have wasted another 10 -20 years of your life.But thats just me. I also beleive that affairs should be disclosed if they happen, many therpaist say not to if it hurts the marriage. But sorry as soon as someone has an affair they already hurt the marriage, the wife just does not know why.
But thats just me.
Hi ZG,
Very interesting questions. I’m with you on this…I already know enough about the past, I don’t really want or need to know any more. All of the reading I did said that the spouse
1) should know everything she needs/wants to know at anytime
2) that she should be very careful ahead of time in determining what those things are for herself
I think there is a wide range of appropriate answers, depending on who each of us are.
When I was at Heart to Heart, I felt some pressure to request a lie detector test for the past. I told them I already knew what I wanted to know and had been tested for STD’s. Dr. Weiss asked me if I was “burying my head in the sand” and I told him I didn’t look at it that way at all, that I don’t care about the past if he is in recovery and my future is different. I had already talked to my husband about getting a lie detector test every 6 months or year going forward and he had agreed and that is our plan. Dr. Weiss said that when he has men come in for those on a scheduled basis, 80 % of his sex addicts stay clean, pass the test, and he believes that the high percentage is in large part due to the fact that these men know they have accountability at a scheduled time. And because he has that accountability, I can do my part with trust and vulnerability and working with him on the relationship.
I thought about scenarios that I would want a lie detector for the past and there are some….if I had any doubts about whether he acted out with anyone underage, if he had another family somewhere…because I would end the relationship for that. I don’t have doubts about those things and I don’t feel like I am burying my head in the sand. At this point, I don’t care how many women he was involved with, or where he met them, or what he did, other then what I already know….if the future is different, that is a part of the past for me.
I think if someone has doubts that she keeps coming back to, she deserves the truth of a lie detector test.
In step 9 where they make amends, it is true that they are not supposed to disclose anything that can harm someone, BUT if a spouse is asking and wants to know, that’s different…..they do not have the right to decide what we can and can’t/ should or shouldn’t know. Each wife gets to make that choice for herself, and if we need a lie detector test to get there, then we do.
As regards the question of whether of not a lie detector test is necessary for their recovery, I would leave that to his therapist and group. That’s about him, and we just need to focus on what we need and what we want.
Love,
MarieHi ZG,
First, if I may, I’d like to take this chance to say thank you because you’ve been very supportive to me since I joined and I can’t tell you how much that means right now, so from the bottom of my heart…”thank you” Okay, mushy stuff over.
Here are my thoughts on disclosure as they related to my situation. I had one false disclosure day in August 2010 and for four months was repairing my marriage under false pretenses. For that, I still can’t forgive him. Then came what I’ve dubbed hell week. It began 12/6 and he trickle truthed me until 12/9 (our anniversary is 12/10). So, not wanting to go through another round of false reconciliation, I had to know that I had full disclosure.
By then I had done research, had talked to two professionals and decided to take an unusual avenue to get to the truth. I detached emotionally and conducted an interview. I want to warn you that this was against my counselors advice, I was told that this could bite me in the ass and truthfully, parts of it has. At the same time, I am a very detail oriented person and the not knowing drove me insane and was causing me nightmares and anxiety. So, I got all of it.
Even after that I still questioned him and he always gave me honest answers. However, I finally got to a point where enough was enough. I realized that there was nothing I could do about what he had done in his past. It wasn’t going to change my future with him. That was what was important now and if I kept rehashing his acting out, I’d never move forward in my own healing. So, I stopped.
My problem with the 12 step concept is this: if they act out, they get to share it with the group/sponsor, and not their spouse. Um, not so much. Does that mean it’s okay for me to cheat and share it on here but not with him?
As far as the “not hurting or injuring another” concept your husband talked about. My husband’s CSAT told him that too. I was still asking about a particular a/o episode in a movie theater and he said, oh, my CSAT said I shouldn’t hurt you by talking about it. My response was, You shouldn’t have hurt me by a/o in the movies…tell me about what happened. And, he did.
I guess what I’m trying to say in all this is, full disclosure is going to hurt like hell. However, if you’re having mind movies, panic attacks, insomnia, nightmares, etc. like me – well, it helped me. But, I realized it had to be put behind me, the door had to be closed so I could move forward and begin to heal because knowing what happened wouldn’t change it.
I hope this helps a bit.
Hugs,
SSHi SS,
That is how i feel too. I feel that if he acted out with hookers, went to massage parlors, and viewed internet porn 12 hours a day; we should not just be told about inernet porn because the rest would be hurtful. When we ask for full discolousre step 9 allows them to decide if they feel it would hurt others or themselves…except when to do so would hurt others or themselves. So in saying that alot of what is done by an active SA would be hurtfull to others.Flora,
And, at the same time, if he acted out NOW – he better tell me. It’s in my boundary agreement. I will NOT stay married to a man who continues to act out. A slip with porn, okay, I can work with that as long as it doesn’t become an addiction again, but anything else – see ya later, bye!!
Hi ZG,
I agree with Marie on this one. I liked everything she said and it really is a personal choice. I myself, didn’t want full disclosure because what I Knew was enough (awful) and any more would be ‘the point of diminishing returns’. It would further traumatize me and I was traumatized enough already. I knew my h had sex with prostitutes, fu*k buddies off the internet, going to massage parlors, and doing porn. I didnt want to know anymore….
Love, Naphi NAP, I think for you that is all you needed to know, and you had made up your mind that it was sick and disgusting already. And that was the threshhold for you. Just as you said point of diminishing returns. If what you have already heard is horrifying and awful, there is no need to here more, becaue it will be just more horrifying and awful.
I don’t like how it seems to be up to them and there therapist what we should be told or not told, and then for us to base our decision upon that, even though we may not know the full truth. I think the full truth should initially come out as generalities…slept with hookers, went to massage parlors, slept with your freinds, your sister, internet chats etc. Anymore than that, i think would possibly more hurtful than beneficial. I think we need to know at least the basics of what went on.
I agree Flora, we need to know the basics. If they just say its porn only and they have actually gone on to real bodies, we need to know. I never knew what my h told his therapist and group; I’m sure he had them all snickerdoodled about his tallywacker.
love that phrase Nap – “Iām sure he had them all snickerdoodled about his tallywacker”…
I needed to know everything. I also know full disclosure took weeks to get to. I did get to see everything he had written as part of his steps – including all his resentments towards me which “caused” his acting out. Not sure it was a good idea! I am glad I pushed to see it, because I know what he was owning up to with his sponsor but do you know what… I still don’t know if he’s telling the truth. Don’t know if I ever will. Don’t think I actually care anymore, so long as my son is safe while with him and not going to see pornography inadvertantly. Actually, while I think about that – I think I need to ask him to get some monitoring software again if he is going to have my son at his house.For me the disclosure mattered because I had developed a really chronically painful pelvic infection which meant even walking was agony. I tested positive for chlamydia and then went for a full screening but luckily nothing else. There but for the grace of God I think. If you think you have been put at risk in that way – you must demand to know what risk exactly… you have the right to be free of sexually transmitted disease and I would argue that putting you at risk of infection is tantamount to a potential act of murder, and believe me – if I had been infected with anything worse he would have heard from my lawyer.
I think for me at that point while I could forgive him the “stuff” it was the lying and convincing me I was mad that I couldnt forgive so readily and thats the stuff I have really had to work on.
When my SA went away for in-patient treatment, his psychologist called to discuss with me what disclosure was, how it worked, and how it might affect me. I completely understood the reasoning behind it, but politely turned it down. I was so traumatized by the whole “finding out” episode that I knew I didn’t want to have to go through those feelings all over again. I told him that maybe in the future if I change my mind, I’ll schedule to do it. But to this day, almost a year later, I still do not want to know. I know enough and I want to be kind to myself not hurt myself. I know what my limitations are as far as handling that kind of stress and I don’t think I could handle going through that. he is making good process on his recovery, though I live each day carefully, knowing that he could slip at any time. I don’t know how long I will live that cautiously, hopefully not for too much longer, but he knows that my recovery is not moving as quickly as his is. We both have alot of work to do to save this marriage. He’s deathly afraid of losing me and I kinda like it that way, right now!! I agree that to do disclosure is a very personal decision and that there is no wrong answer. You really have to think long and hard about whether it will help or hurt you and your partner.
Thanks for all of the posts! That’s what I love about this site; so many different “real life” points of view that let me reach beyond the theoretical and (often conflicting) professional opinions. I feel like I’m in a place where I need to be with this, so far. Since my h had already moved on to live bodies (and we’ve both been tested for STD’s), it seems like nothing could get much worse beyond underage girls. asked him that directly a few months ago, and he said no, and seemed disgusted by the idea. Of course, they are master liars, so I can’t trust my instincts when it comes to his emotional reactions. However, since I was able to “research” and hack into his “SA” email accounts, and some other websites, I haven’t seen anything to indicate that he’s not being truthful in that regard. It seems like the most comfortable way for me to proceed is to continue to ask him questions when needed, as opposed to having some official “disclosure day,” as some of the literature recommends. Just the thought of that sends my heart pounding and gives me major feelings of PTS.
Stillstanding, thank you for your “thank you.” š I don’t have as much wisdom/experience as some of the ladies, but I’m so glad when I can at least give moral support.
Hugs everyone! ZGHi All,
I was remembering back to last year when i was in that phase of not really wanting to know. I was freaked at the idea of going to his therapist, where i thought i would be ambushed, and i thought that if i found out anything else that i would just implode. Its not that i was in denial, i was afraid to know. And afraid at what would be said, would be the trigger, to the end of our marriage.Then i reached a phase where i remembered more things mor suspicouis things. I also got to the phase where i beleive that he was not being honest with me. Then the tables turned. I then got to a point where i wanted to know everything, because i felt he was NOT telling me everything.
And this was my reasoning. The day i said i do, he hid these secrets and lies, he hid this addiction from me. I said i do under false pretenses. When something like this is found, wether an affiar, addiction, some kind of false life; i feel i should be well informed so I can make my decision for what my future will be and hold. And for me, full disclosure would be part of that, so i can make an informed decision (unlike my wedding day). And from this day forward, you can say in your head, i accept you faults and all (knowing full well what they are) and move on. And everystep you take forward will hopefully be further and further from those dark days, but knowing what those dark days really were.I just remembered this morning how i felt last year about all of this. So i thought it might be helpful for others or to understand.
Love to all, FloraZG,
What a great approach! Ask the questions you want to ask, when you are ready to hear the answers. This way, you have no worries about being overwhelmed with to much information all at once.
Hugs,
SSHi all,
I agree that you should be free to ask any question, when YOU are ready to hear the answers. But it is pointless to start those conversations without careful consideration of the time and place, as you probably know in what atmosphere your h is most likely to dig deep.This is a frustrating subject for me. I had multiple disclosures last year. After each one “now you know everything”. Until he was ready to tell more. So far, a dozen friends and co-workers of ours (10-20 yrs ago – except for one slip-up a couple of years ago. She still works for us – lovely). It is crucial to know who I was betrayed by and to what degree. All attempts to further this conversation are met with resentment and withdrawl. I feel like someone who was truly transparent would meet these queries with resignation and tenderness. Is that asking too much?
Lylo… “All attempts to further this conversation are met with resentment and withdrawl. I feel like someone who was truly transparent would meet these queries with resignation and tenderness. Is that asking too much?”… I fear it is! I don’t know how you feel about this or what your experience has been, but for me every question has been answered with “but my sex addiction has nothing to do with you- its all about me – I love you”… hmmm.
urm Wrong!!Hi Lylo,
No its not asking too much and I think its sad you have to be exposed to his resentment and withdrawl. How do you feel about this Lylo? My husband would make me feel on the bottom of the totum pole. If I asked questions ( simple ones like why did your motorcycle ride around the block take 2 hours? ) and he would become angry and I was exposed to a madman rage…..well, never again..I’m getting rid of his cheating ass and I could care less if I ever see his lying face again. I would live in a cardboard box before I’d ever live with him.Lylo, I think were both 52 and I think you can still work it. I know I can and I think you can too!
Love, Nap
Jos, the whole compartmentalizing thing is really hard to swallow. For something that we are not supposed to take personally, it sure feels personal! I get that they ‘love’ their wives, yada yada…it is just such an assault to my sensibilities.
Nap, I am furious that almost two years after I found out about his other life that we are still going around in circles about this. His recovery is on track and he is completely transparent about the present but he still owes me this much at least. If your husband is still in the deception mode, you really cannot run away fast enough. If mine falls off the wagon, we can start ‘Club 52’. And invite George Clooney! š
Love, LyloHey Y’all, the deal for me is that regardless of whether I am ready to hear the truth, my SA does not know what that looks like. Not trying to be funny here. This disease is one of forget-fullness. Why even spend the time listening to him tell me of his “acting out” behavior. It is complete bull shit, and he is damn good at it.
Lylo, I’m in on ‘club 52’. (no SAs allowed). George seems sweet and wouldn’t mind sharing I’m pretty sure.
Zachette, I can totally relate to your SA. Mine could never be real. Everything was manipulated, twisted, omitted, lied, minimized or rationalized. It is BS and they are experts. This is why I choose to no longer participate in any of it and it feels sooooooooooooo good! (I’m free!).
Love, Nap
Hi All – Just reading the post’s on disclosure. My SA has always twisted, omitted, lied, minimized or omitted when he get’s caught. Lately, if I see him doing something, I will call it to his attention and tell him not to lie about it. He will start to lie and then will re-focus and tell the truth. Not sure if minimizing is still going on-most likely. Maybe, this is a little progress, who knows??? I agree on how good they are at it – if I had not learned to pick up on Steve’s trigger’s and lieing, he would still be pulling the wool over my eyes. I DO seem to have a sixth sense in catching him.
Its the twisting and lying that is hardest of all to cope with. I genuinely felt as though I was an absolute lunatic – here was the man I love telling me something was categorically not happening when I had the text message or email or online evidence in front of me. Its enough to take anyone to the limit. Compartmentalising is that what they call it? bless them. I could never decide if acting out was the cause or effect of the foul moods and anger. And as I’ve said before – we are all funny beautiful clever smart women – so I don’t think we need fear being on our own if we decide to leave and rebuild ourselves. Its just ensuring we learn enough from this experience to start again with the right boundaries and information in place… do you think we should opt for a lie detector test for Mr CLooney before he is allowed into your club ladies?
I don’t care if George is a SA because I just want to ‘heck’ him and ride his motorcyle with him in Italy….just go for a joy ride…………….enjoy his company, then he’ll move on and I’ll get over him just fine because I have experience with being dumped.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.