- This topic has 88 replies, 19 voices, and was last updated 13 years, 3 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Wow. March. That’s a nice piece of insight/observation. It’s true we can’t see the forest for the trees sometimes. But yes, we all know these guys don’t have a lot of original material. We struggle to find the wisdom to understand how they can’t be in a relationship with anybody, but that they are human beings who need skilled treatment so they can salvage something of their own lives (and stop ruining ours).
Diane,
While I agree that they need treatment; I’m sure we ALL think that, it has become more and more apparent to me, that the vast majority of them, do not feel so. not really.
They are fine. They just got caught. So, now— they need to “recover?”
I don’t think so.
Whether we stand by them, or not…
They will go on. Find another patsy. Even make a new family, possibly. And some may even try to get help, but are not really “helpable.”
My h had EIGHT years of therapy, before I met him and up until our first son was one and we moved out of Manhattan. And for most of that, two or three times a week, with a highly skilled Manhattan Therapist. He was SO together when I met him.
right.
But, it does not matter. A SA, no matter what, MUST want to attain sobriety and wellness, whether he is in a relationship with us, or not. Just as we didn’t matter when he couldn’t keep his pecker inside his pants, we don’t matter in his recovery, either.
It truly IS, all about him– in “recovery” too.
Of course, for those that stay, there will come a time, to build healthier ways of communicating and to built “trust.”
Its not for me. Once a man has lied to me.
he’s done.
If I could have, I would’ve left five years ago, but I had an AD/HD massive handful 16-yr old, and an 11 yr old, high-maintenance son with autism. It was impossible, and I also believed him when he said that it was “only” chats and that he would “stop.”
I am so, so phenomenally disappointed in this man.
what a fucking loser.
Love,
L
March,Lexie,
What can I say except that I agree. They know how to play us and they know when to show their hand….that is why I didn’t find out in my 30’s? I wish the best for Ms Lindy….I wish that SOMEONE , ANYONE had a hopeful story or a happy ending. God…..what a cluster f–k! sigh Karen x
Hi everyone,
I’ve been reading what you’ve all posted and I can’t respond to each of you invidually, but I want to thank each of you individually. You’ve given me much to think about. I am hearing so much pain, heartache, anger, hatred, and despair. I’m not feeling encouraged at all right now, but I think for me I still want to walk through H’s recovery process and MY recovery process together as a couple.Just to say, for me at this point, getting the hell out of here is not something I want to do. I am not co-dependent. I can do it on my own financially (I think). I’m prepared emotionally, and I’m physically capable. I DO want to stay married, I DO want a good marriage. It’s really hard and really painful, but I DO think we’re worth it.
As of today, I haven’t decided yet what to do about this disclosure. I vascilate every hour, will it help, will it hinder, will it destroy any progress we’ve made. Lot’s of good thoughts from all of you on that, and it’s true I am the only one who really knows. All I know is that I am still here on this site because I hope that no matter what I do (or what anyone one of us does) there is support here.
I agree with you kmf, I wish that SOMEONE would have a happy ending!! Maybe it’s like winning the PowerBall. One or two chances in a few million… pretty bad odds, but I want to be one of those people.
So keep the love light burning gals if you please?
Love and much peace for you all.
LindyDear Ms- Lindy,
You are wise to live your life the way you see fit…with or without disclosure? 🙂 You are right…there is much pain, much confusion and much despair BUT sooner or later we all have to be willing to take risks again and to step back into the circle of hope. If we don’t we are going to shrivel up and die on the inside.Some of us will find our hope outside our marriages….whether we physically leave them or not? Some will sever altogether and some will wish they had. If you still have hope for your marriage then do whatever you have to, to save it.You can always walk away later if you find your hope is gone or was misplaced. We all tend to speak and live from our own experience…good and bad. You have to speak and live from yours. Good luck and peace and love to you also. 🙂 Karen xx
Ms. L,
I really admire you for that. I too, wanted to try and work things out. absolutely. The newest revelation, was the proverbial straw! DONE! I kept hoping that my husband would want me again– step up to the plate and BE a husband to me, but no. But, i also had no idea what he had been doing all of these many years. I just knew that I was really unhappy and felt unloved. Every time I found out something new, it was like another knife in my heart… and then… with predator, his lies could fill his beloved Yankee Stadium! He’s like Road runner… run him over, and he just gets his cute slimy seff up, and keeps on truckin’ over to the next encounter. But, those are my personal experiences.
For me, the SA is just one part of a whole wheel barrow full of shit that I cannot abide by. It’s a profound loss on so many, many levels, and I cannot take any more of this agonizing pain. I am so phenomenally angry at him, that I can’t go more than a couple of days without hurling the most vile insults at him.
I AM THE ABUSIVE ONE.
As an aside, that psycho who LITERALLY decimated his family, before himself (2 miles from me)… I read that he said that his wife was “verbally abusive” to him…
oh, sure… she was… poor baby…
the world is full of such sickness…
but, its not for me; I cannot live like this.
i will die an early death if i stay with him
so, for me, i have no choice, if I wish to live and I do.
As for the disclosure. If you find out something really hideous, how are you going to feel? I think in order to heal, (it is best to put it all in the dumpster) its gone. done. Time to move on and create, a new life, with your husband. Please trust that it was hideous and humiliating, but its over.
its either over or its not. and if its not, you now have the tools to know the difference, right? If so, then you will be fine. (or at least, more fine than if you did not have the tools) And I do hope and pray that you will be one of the lucky ones.
Love ~ LHi mslindy..
I can really relate to your post. I don’t have any advice because I’m new at this, and still flailing around in the dark. But I feel like I need to fill in the gaps too. It’s like having been in a coma and needing to fill in the missing pieces. My husband says it’s ‘all part of the same bad stuff,’ and minimizes and hedges still, and that just drives me further away from him. And he says that he’s terrified of me leaving him for good, yet he can’t see that he’s driving me further and further away every time he hedges on my questions. He doesn’t get that I now feel that I don’t know him at all, that everything he says is now questionable.. absolutely everything. I hate this.
Honey… He’s very sick… very, very sick.
Have you ever had the flu and were laid up in bed and forgot what it felt like to be normal? This is your new normal? Well, that is how it is for him, only its in his head.
Unfortunately, its not a virus that will run its course and then die out and you will recover and be healthy all over again…
I hear that your husband is TERRIFIED of you leaving.
Is that so?
why now?
cause he got busted?
you can’t negotiate with a terrorist.
And its not really like being in a coma, honey. This man has abused you. He has not had your best interests at heart. He is an arrogant prick who thought that he could get away with this “double life.”
Well, guess what? he can’t.
now, he’s running scared… but its STILL all about him, isn’t it? please just know… if he says it’s “bad stuff”… its really, really, really bad…
I know, I know… its making you crazy.
welcome to my world…
I’ll shut up now… 😉
(((hugs)))
L
Dear Anniem,
My h did the same thing to me for years. Lied, crumbs of truth, and only answered exactly what I asked him, no more,no less.Then last winter I hit bottom and told him either suck it up and get over your problems, or I’m outta here. I found this site, I read and read and read books, posts, you name it. It gave me so much insight into what my role was in this marriage, and I learned that I did have power to change my life. If he wanted to come with me he could. He decided to find a new sex therapist, learned what it meant to be transparent, doesn’t lie about his activities (yes some white lies now and then), but then corrects himself.
Now disclosure…I’ve had so many d-days in the past eight years, I’m pretty sure I know of all his nasty secrets & habits. We sat down last week and he went through his story from the beginning to the end. Most of what he said I knew. I wanted to know more of the whys and hows. He was very general, and I asked the questions I needed to know to fill in the gaps. There was only one admission from him that made my heart sink, and that was about him having had sex with a man. I always thought I knew the answer to that one, but to hear him admit it was very difficult.
Now, I still have more questions, but I think I’ve heard enough. I have the information that I needed. Where am I going now, do I stay here and HOPE he won’t act out again. Do I leave? Can we really rebuild this marriage from the ground up?
I am still in a better place (after his disclosure)than I was a year ago. I know I am in control of my own destiny, just what do I want that to be. Isn’t it funny…one would think we all know exactly how we want to live our lives,and we are headed in that direction, and then BAM we find we settle for only what we are willing to work hardest for. I’m emotionally tired right now and I have to work real hard on ME so I can make the right decision for ME. He has to do his own work and decide what his destiny will be. I wonder then, if our destinies will bring us back to each other in the way we both hope for.
LindyDearest Lindy,
Thank you for sharing this step with us. It must have been a really hard thing to hear what you hoped you would never hear, and to bear the burden of knowing. No wonder you are emotionally tired.You are a woman of extraordinary courage and compassion. You also seem to be in touch with what you need, and I believe in your capacity to know that and get it for yourself. I also hear a very different kind of energy in your story, and your desire to be open to what may be possible for the two of you. It’s not defensive and excusing. It’s honest and encouraging. I sense you are on a really good path, and you will find the way. Here’s lots of light for your life, and also for his.
with love,
Diane.Diane,
Thank you for your kind words, they feel very validating, something we all need to hear now and then.
Love to you to.
LindyI agree, Ms Lindy you sound like you are in a really good place for yourself. Thanks for sharing with us.
Much love, Nap
Lindy,
I am new to this group and site. My first hint at what was happening was 3 weeks ago, and there has been a cascade of “revelations” that I could never had anticipated. My heart and head are so wounded I don’t know how I can even maintain daily activities for my children, yet I do. Your hope is a light for me, because I can’t find any of my own. My H began counseling last Mon with a psychiatrist, and starts a support group tomorrow. I have not joined a SA group because the 12 step model is based on a Christian world view which I do not share. Not atheist, just not looking to hand it all over to a higher power who watched silently while I married into this hell. There are things that have not been disclosed yet, of course, he said so, on a computer flashdrive that he says he doesn’t want me to see. It was discovered accidently while my computer was being repaired, but the computer guy said it locked up when he opened it (0nly after he saw what he called “inordinate amounts” of porn… on MY laptop! that whipped by then the system locked and it’s all password protect now and destroyed itself when he tried to pull it off so my 10 year old son would not stumble onto it while doing his online lessons.) It’s terrifying me, what I’m reading about this as a progressive disease and the ease of the deceitfulness of what I thought was my husband. I am afraid to leave my children here when he’s here. I can’t believe I am now capable of imagining such attrocities from a man I believed was my soul mate less than a month ago. I am reeling with shock, actually. The counselor I visited when I first found out is not up to this challenge. I am too exhausted to look for another, but was grateful for this outlet. I want full disclosure. I need it to feel my children are safe. The problem is, with all the layers of lies already uncovered, there is no amount of proof that will ever make me believe his word again. I don’t even think a polygraph would help me feel secure. I think he could beat one. What I said to him last night hurt like hell, but it was the truth. He was asserting over and over that I did not need to leave because he assured me he would die before he would hurt the children. I had to hold his face to mine and look hiim in the eyes, so he would be still, and say slowly “your word is absolutely worthless now”. He was devastated, but what did he expect? I feel like I have no choice but to be as hard as ice now, and it’s not me and it’s taking every ounce of energy I have. Yet still, I have some hope, deep, deep and I hate that it’s still there. I feel like an idiot. But if I give it no chance, will our lives really improve? The damage is done, the relationship is severed. What is left but a family trying to live day to day? I don’t know. My children love him dearly. But what will that lead to, in the end of this saga. The stories are not encouraging, and they are my top priority. At least you have a somewhat encouraging story. I hope it goes well from here out, or as well as can be expected. Shame we have to qualify those hopes, eh?Maybe hope keeps us alive while we find our equilibrium in the sinkhole of our marriages. It is something most of us share.
Hi lynng, and welcome. I’m so sorry you are going through this. Hon, you are in shock and have been traumatized, so feeling lost right now is perfectly normal. Feeling like an idiot is too. However, you are NOT an idiot, but a wonderful wife and mother who has just had your world crumble around you, and you are grieving.
Just let me say that the progress my H and I have made individually and as a couple has been painstakingly slow (it was 2002 when I first discovered his addiction, 2003 when I found him with a hooker.) It is hard work, and not for everyone. Some sisters here, as you will see, just cannot invest any more of themselves in the hellish world of addiction, and that is the right thing for them to do. This site for me means that no matter what each of us decides to do there’s still women here who care and can hold us up when we begin to tumble down. Who knows…tomorrow I may be saying I’ve had enough and will walk away.
Be kind to yourself and don’t expect that you can make sense out of this right now, because there is no sense to it at all. Just keep posting and telling us how you are doing and feeling, its good medicine.
March, you are right on when you say we need to find our equilibrium. Then perhaps our way becomes a little more clear.
Luv, LindyDear Lindy,
I just wanted to say that I am glad you had your disclosure but I am also sorry that it contained more painful info that you wish was not true. I guess most of us expected there would be something hurtful BUT I am glad you talked to him and you feel you now have what you needed…for now. I just want to say that as one of our members who is striving to beat this “disease”, “condition”, “disorder” or whatever it is….I admire you and your efforts. If at a later date…you opt not to stay or your husband opts not to keep working on himself or if you ride off into the fairytale we all hoped for….I will be here to support you and cheer you on 🙂 I know I am hard and take a dim view of these men and I feel very protective of partners….but as I post more and more and share more and more I feel a glimmer of myself emerging? I am very wounded,angry and on guard BUT I have always had a romantic heart and a compassionate outlook.Lately, I am sometimes concerned that I am too direct or too hopeless and that I might shut out a partner trying to keep working on her marriage? As I remain on this forum (and i love the way we can all say exactly what we feel without tip toing around), as I gain my emotional equilibrium , as my rage dims and my ears open….I feel strongly that we all need to be here, on our different journeys, and learning from each other a long the way? I guess this is a long way of saying…I imagine it isn’t easy hanging in with such sad outcomes and stories in your face all the time? But I benefit from your posts and your calm presense and I am glad you are with us. New people can benefit greatly from those of us still with husbands after a long period and so I just hope that you and Lylo, Katt,Shaken, ZGirl, Pam,Deb, Sharron, CBS life, ( I hav probably forgot someone?) ect ect and all those with one foot out of thier marriage know that we need you here no matter how much we addict bash. 🙂 I hope this makes sense to everyone? I guess we just all learn and need each other in different ways? God knows most of us need unconditional love by the time we show up here 🙂 Karenx
Lindy,
I’m so sorry for the further pain from the disclosure. I can literally feel that gut-wrenching feeling. And lynng, I can so relate to your terror. I remember the more I read, the more terrified and shaken I became. Fortunately, the emotions do level off. It takes time to let it all settle and process. Don’t be too hard on yourself and don’t feel like you have to decide the future this week.
And Karen…awww…you ARE a softie at heart! I always knew it!!!
Love always, Z-girlHi ladies~
Lindy, thank you for posting this topic it’s been very interesting reading the different opinions. I’m still up in the air b/c I don’t want that pain again. And I do have that nagging pain that there is more he’s not telling me. But I have thought to myself. Isn’t this enough? Isn’t this enough pain? Do I need to know more? But I read some good points. Like to have a true intimate marriage you need full honesty and that an addict is only as sick as his secrets so if he has some he needs to get them out. Does that mean they have to be to me? For him to heal and move on wouldn’t it be beneficial for him to disclose to anyone? Me wanting to know is that just self sabotage? I don’t know.
I have feelings that he did this longer than he’s let on I mean with the escorts and with more than he says and I maybe there was sex with a man? Who knows? I’ve never thought that and I don’t have a nagging feeling about that, but I really have no idea. What I do worry about are people we know people who run in the same circles people who I “wondered” about before D day. You know just me being jealous. People he still works with. So I have these questions.
How do you choose a polygraph test person? How do you come up with specific questions? How do you schedule this with your therapist? How much do these normally cost?
And also what are the sick sick secrets that he could be keeping from me? Where could my mind go? I don’t know? I’m so scared of the real truth and hope and pray I have the whole truth but you know something tells me I don’t.
Wow. What I sleepless and eventful night I had. So I decided after reading all of these wonderful posts that I do want full disclosure. So I sent my husband an email and explained to him that if we want to have a real marriage with true intimacy that we have to have no secrets and that I know that he had agreed that he would do a polygraph test at one time and I pasted in the info from a website and I told him the cost etc.
Then he woke up a few minutes later and I started talking to him and I told him all the same things. I left out the polygraph information. (Our therapist had suggested that I take the “Isn’t this pain enough?” route a few weeks back and I agreed. But after reading these posts last night I have changed my stance.) I explained to him that I had changed my stance and that I wanted a marriage with true intimacy and he agreed that indeed so does he. So I told him regardless of what the therapist has said I want to know what else there is what you haven’t told me. Well he told me that there were 2 additional escorts that he had forgotten about…Maybe? But doubtful especially since he did admit one came to our house and he had previously told me that none of them were ever here. Then he said that this is the big one and that he’s really sorry but the last escort that he slept with on Sept 6th, that he didn’t wear a condom. UGH!! This really did’t surprise me b/c when he first told me about the escorts I figured he didn’t use them anyway. I remember when we first started dating he didn’t like them. So I figured that’s how it went down. But apparently the other girls were more professional and safe, but this skankette didn’t even suggest it. And he says it was only anal sex not that that makes it any better or worse. YES I have been tested but it was too soon, I will and he will be going back for 3 month test a 6 month test and a 1 year test. So I say to him, so that’s it, that’s your big deep dark secret that you didn’t use a condom with the escort. Yes! he assures me as he has so many times before this time.
He gets up to go to the bathroom and when he comes back I’m checking online (b/c unfortunately I know the escorts name, I drilled him for detailed info early on) to see if this escorts name pops up on a search with hiv or aids or stds. Luckily I didn’t find anything. So he decided to get on his computer as well. I didn’t know but he checked his email and after about 20 minutes or so he went back to the bathroom, but the time he got back I had the light off and ready to go to sleep. He was eerily quiet and I knew something was up….So I say to him. Don’t be coward, if you have more to say, just say it, I’m ready, I have myself prepared, I can handle it. He says, there’s one more thing I have to tell you and then I will take your polygraph. My heart stops, I’ve been thinking worse case all along. But my I had a gut feeling about his workplace. You see I used to work there as well and I know my husband doesn’t act married so to speak. He’s not a big how you doin’ shoot the finger gun kind of flirtatious guy. He the quiet mysterious handsome smart guy who flashes you that special smile or that wink and doesn’t really bring his wife up in conversation. We’ve talked about this lots in the past waaaaaay before d-day. So this is why I was concerned about the workplace. I imagined the prettiest woman there who flirted with him right in front of my face, then there is the woman who he made out with at a party that I was at with him back 3 or so years ago that I just found out about. And then there are the obvious sluts so my mind was everywhere. So he says to me. I slept with Insert name here twice but only twice an it was this year once in January and once in February. So i ask why did it stop. I know that she is recently divorced and recently had gastic bypass surgery and was dating a new guy. And had just moved in to an apartment (in January) right down the street from the office. He tells me that she stopped it because she wanted to be faithful to her new boyfriend. Not him but her. Great! And you know I’m just numb. I didn’t get that traumatic feeling I’ve gotten in the past I’m just like wow, that’s not who I expected but I’m not surprised. I know that it was just to get off and nothing more to it. It does however piss me off that this woman who claims to be my friend slept with my husband!!! So the thing is is that she had a house warming party, this house warming party was the day after the first time they hooked up. And he still took me and I went to her apartment where they had sex and hugged her and drank her alcohol and ate her food. And he put me there in the belly of the beast the day after!!
We discussed this and he said that he did a lot of things back then that he isn’t proud of and that he didn’t even think of things like that back then. I really was never considered.
So that’s my full disclosure story. We are still going through with the polygraph b/c I can’t trust anything that comes out of his mouth. I don’t want to have a marriage where I have to do surprise polygraphs to keep him honest but hey I’ll do what I have to do.
I feel strong and I feel ready to take on this disease and with the help of my husband and all of the tools we have at are disposal I’m hoping and I have faith that we can make it happen for us. From my mouth to Gods ear.
Well Dearest Mary,
You’ve had a dreadful night, and I hope you don’t have any more like that.
Since you want to see if you can go on in a relationship with this man, I think your needing full disclosure makes perfect sense. But it’s a hard road for sure. I think your therapists “isn’t this pain enough” approach was loopy if you want to stay with this man. Continuous discoveries and the ensuing trauma to you are very destructive.Telling the truth is a very “iffy” thing with an SA. They aren’t good at it, which explains the way it kind of kept “leaking” out. I hope there is nothing more. YOu have an awful lot to overcome and a lot of hurt to live with. May you have the strength and grace to hold onto yourself in the process, and not EVER get used to the way this makes you feel.
In your own best interests, I would suggest you start a private bank account and start putting something in it everytime you can. This is the sensible part of a recovery plan for you. This is the part that gives you some security when you are dealing with someone who is way more adept at deception and lying than you can possibly comprehend. If it all works out, it’s still there. And if it doesn’t you have some leverage to save yourself when you need it most.
I’m just saying’….be smarter this time.
Lots of light and hope to you,
D.I do not recognize myself. I am saying some horrible things. I am thinking even worse ones. I am enraged and have absolutely no compassion for my H. Since I found out 22 days ago about his behavior, he has been leaving for work later and later, and coming home earlier and earlier. He wants to talk about this 5-6 hours a day. I don’t want to hear any more. He said his counselor said the thing that will kill this addiciton is a solid relationship. And now I am so furious that I am in the saviour seat after what has been done. There was no epiphany and self revelation, this was found by accident, and now my H is saying he is so glad this counseling started so not things can be “better than ever”. This is cruel, in my eyes. I told him so. I said, maybe better for you, but me, now, I’ll never be sure. You can know that you’ve stopped, that you didn’t contact some woman while I was driving my children to school, that you didn’t use hours of porn while I was asleep. I’ll never know, I’ll never be 100% sure again. How can anyone be sitting across from someone whose husband they’ve just totally erased from the world, whose happy memories he just made a lie, whose future he put in complete misery, and say it will all be “better than ever”? Who is this person!? Who am I?
Lynng~
What your H is saying his therapist said is bullshit. Plain and simple. A good solid relationship has NOTHING to do with it. YOU have NO responsibility as you weren’t the cause and you are not the cure. Don’t believe everything he says his therapist says. It may never have been said at all.I just posted 5 minutes ago under the “Triggers” thread that my husband does the same thing to me. That this is a “good” thing because it will make us stronger.
He has made me so furious at times that I don’t even know myself. When this all first started coming out, I slapped him across the face. I don’t hit people. It’s like it wasn’t even me.
Lynng ~ is your h’s therapist a csat? If not do not waste anymore time or money on him. I think the wrong help can make things worse. We started with therapists that were trying to point at me and he was loving it. It took 5 months of me going into hyper mode to figure out we needed someone who got what was really going on. We both look back at the first lady we saw and laugh, she was clueless!!! I found one 3 hours away. we both see different people in the same office. They set my h straight finally. He had to admit soooooo much and took the polygraph. Now he wont go back. IF he did the work, and it is all his work, we might stand a chance. nope.
You are new to this and it breaks my heart my dday was oct 14 2010 and last year is a bad blur. Take care of yourself any way you can. Do not for one minute buy into that shit that this is your fault, ever. it simply is not.
I hope you can find a csat near you, if not make him drive, we would do it for a kids game, this is way more important.
Hugs
HeidiHi lynng,
I’m saying those things because for me it’s over. We are divorcing after a 25 yr marriage. I found out one yr ago he was a SA. My h still lies. He lies to his attny, he lies to the judge, he lies to his kids, and he lies to himself. And because hrs in such a denial bubble about his addiction, I think he may even believe them. This guy gets no more of me in any way shape or form. I don’t speak to him, I don’t return text messages, I only communicate with him via my attny to his attny when necessary. As far as I’m concerned, he lost the best thing he ever had. For what, some stangers pussy? They can have him whoever the he’ll he is!Love, Nap
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.