disclosure

Thanks Jos, I won’t. I just need to express some of my repressed sexuality.

SS, thanks for the insight. You’re absolutely right. He is ashamed, embarrassed, and afraid that I’ll leave. I have told him that I need a relationship of real intimacy and thats not possible with secrets like these. I usually start the conversation in a very dispassionate, matter of fact way so that he knows I’m going to stay calm and that I just want truth for it’s sake, not to torture him. He sighs, gives one word answers and ‘I don’t remembers’s. And I only really get angry when he shuts me down, not with revelations. Come on!

I will try telling him what you told your husband about healing. I’m not sure he is ready. The counselors said that it would come naturally when he peels his layers and learns emotional intimacy. I hope I’m not on a walker by then. Thanks, Love Lylo

Hi Lylo,

This struck a most discordant note with me:

“The counselors said that it would come NATURALLY when he peels his layers and learns emotional intimacy.”

Did they?

Forgive me, but that sounds like one of those idealistic responses that professionals spout out, because they read it in a textbook somewhere. Its largely crap. Unfortunately, I have been at the receiving end of so much of this, especially where my children are concerned.

“Come to my home and live with them for a week and then let’s talk, okay?”

But… back to the subject at hand.

Most sex addicts never learn what true emotional intimacy is… because they do not have the capacity to do this, in the first place, no matter what layers he peels.

Why?

It feels fake and phony and unnatural to them. They were born without this capacity to understand this concept in the first place and/or it developed over time.

He does not understand the concept.

Its like teaching someone who’s very untalented to be a prima ballerina or an opera singer at the met or a professional baseball player, and at the age of (the age of your SA). Without that innate talent and ability and the proper God-given instrument to carry it out, (including a mind and body that is still pliable enough to take it all in) it ain’t gonna happen. The same applies here. I’m not saying that there can’t be some improvement. But, I fear that the improvements once a man reaches adulthood, are going to be not all that substantial– especially if the idea is YOURS.

That is reality.

If they don’t have the innate ability, in the first place, there is no amount of therapy that can make that happen. When you tell him that you need a real relationship with “real intimacy”, you are first supposing that he even knows what this means and that he can process what keeping things from you (that would hurt you) has to do with that. It doesn’t compute. What he hears, however is that you DISAPPROVE of him and your ANGER, your CAJOLING, and on a good day, he merely walks away. On a bad day… well…

Even if he does have some awareness, he cannot disclose, because to do so would rip off the narcissistic mask he wears, to veil who he really is that he cannot face.

Let’s turn it around. Let’s say that you are feeling frumpy and are trying to lose weight and you also feel that your partner might be losing interest in you, because of your size. Not only that, he’s being critical of you. He’s monitoring your every move, especially as you veer towards the kitchen and demanding to know what you have eaten for breakfast, lunch, dinner, snacks. All of it. What is the portion size. Was that roll with butter? How many rolls did you have Lexie??? How many calories did you have? You ate without me? Don’t you want to eat together? Why did you have such a big lunch? How can you expect to have a truly intimate marriage if we don’t eat together??? huh, huh, huh??? What do I have to do, Lexie? put a child lock on the refrigerator so that you won’t cheat on me? Is that what I have to do? And then, he starts crying… no, sobbing, hysterically because he’s so terrified of everything and so worried that you won’t get and DO what he NEEDS you to do, to make your marriage work.

Feel yourself sighing and wanting to get away from him?

Well… that’s exactly how it is for him when you bring up his sex life. I know, I know… you thought he was only supposed to have sex with just YOU. And you are right, he is… but he’s weak and needy and with needs that no one woman could EVER fulfill… In his mind he equates having sex in the same category as eating. And sex with other people as simply not eating the same thing every day.

And here you are trying to tell him to stop eating and not only to stop eating, but to look into your eyes non-stop while you are eating together.

It will always feel weird to him.

I think that we are expecting too much. Most people past the age of about 25 don’t ever change very much, unless it is of their own volition. And I mean, 100% of their own volition. not 50%. not even 90%.

If you can live with 90 or 50 or 20 or even no change whatsoever, then fine. Otherwise, I believe that if we believe otherwise, that we are setting ourselves up for a lot of disappointment.

Love,

Lexie

ZG, it is strangely comforting to hear identical behaviors described here. You’ll be the fitness director the home!

Lexie, love the food analogy. The therapists are really invested in the co thing and their program. Even though there are seemingly identical behaviors among them, I’m not sure they all respond to the same program. So many wives talk about how distant their SA’s have been and I always thought we were emotionally connected because he is tenderhearted and likes to talk. It is confusing, but the proof is in the pudding and I clearly didn’t know what was going on in there. Maybe he doesn’t have that capacity.

SS, I know they say that it is normal to not remember also but i have to suspend all intelligence to believe that he can’t remember some of this stuff. Does your h still claim amnesia about those emails? Love to continue to hear of your progress and if you ever want to share passages from those letters, let me know! Love to all, Lylo

This is my opinion, I think ‘not remembering’ is convenient, I think they remember everything. In fact, they will use these memories to masterbate to later on.

PS. a recovering addict would not use these memories to masterbate to.

A lot of my information and “insights” actually came from my 100s of hours of IM convo with Predator. Little did I know, at the time, that I was actually doing a research project in the year that I knew him. lol 95% of our refuckenship was online and he has the gift of gab. And on some occasions, I spoke to him as “another” woman. So, all of these points came up repeatedly. He truly feels programmed (you know that perpetuation of the species thingy?) and as if there is NO other possible way for him to live his life, even though he was shipped out to the cleaners. That was just a ruse, to keep his partner happ(ier). And then, I gleaned even more info when I found her “recovery” blog which supported the notion that he recoiled when she wanted to have more disclosure, just 3 months after her D-day.

Based on the fact that I frequently see Predator’s ads on CL, we can say that his recoiling behavior was because he was then and still is— acting out and has no intention of recovering. Does his partner think that he is recovering. Yes, of course, but that is a different subject. Speaking of memory, today, happens to be the three year anniversary of when predator and I first met… but I’m okay. Tired, but happy. I saw two new clients today and old ones yesterday who just bought three expensive rugs. One for each year!!! haha!

I don’t think that a truly recovering addict is going to recoil when his beloved partner wants more information. It may not be his favorite subject, but he needs to understand that actions can and do have repercussions and that the way to heal is to do whatever it takes to build back the trust. It seems universal, that they did not grow up, having appropriate consequences when they behaved badly or made a mistake.

Or else, they are just plain neurologically disabled or both.

Hmmm… men have very selective memories, in any case, I think. All of them. 😉

xo ~ L

Marie, I know my h doesn’t want to deal with the fallout. I have tried to reassure him that there isn’t likely to be any. Whether it is the 12 that I know of or 24 isn’t the issue.
Lexie, I have known my h for 30 years. It is only in the past 22 months that I have realized that he is not an honest person at all. He struggles with it and has joined a group called operation integrity to learn to be accountable for all of his actions, not just sexual. I know his family very very well and can see the genesis of it now. One funny habit he has (his whole family does it except for his honest Abe dad) is when he asks a question, it goes like this: Did you remember to (blank)? Answer: Yes. Then: you did? Actually waiting for that second answer as though you may not tell the truth the first time because the truth was not necessarily expected from his family if it might cause discomfort. It used to just amuse/irritate me but now I see it for what it is and always change my answers up so that he can see how absurd it is. I now recognize all kinds of less than integrous stuff and whether one is denying they nabbed a freshly baked cookie when I turned my back (dumb example, but happens frequently) or screwing my friends, they both make me feel angry and unsafe. He has a terrible entitlement problem and rationalizes things because he can’t always get what he ‘deserves’. Who the hell can? So, he compromises his integrity and then pays the price of shame. I can’t believe that I did not see all of this before. I really believed that he was a terrible, transparent liar and therefore just couldn’t do it. If someone would have told me all of this two years ago I would have told them that they were nuts.

Wow! I have so much catching up to do! This post is fascinating! I love what Lexie wrote, but it hurt like hell reading it. A lot of truth there.

I, like a lot of you, always believed my h was full of integrity. It is how he acts and carries himself. Thats what makes this so incredibly twisted. The lies are so obvious now, especially the ones where he makes himself sound like a person who is full of respect. such bs.
I was certain he was developing the start of alzheimer’s because the way he coped with keeping up with his lies was to say he forgot. I can’t remember. Did that really happen, where was I? etc. I was doing research on early intervention and how much time I was going to have with him and thinking about my future with him and this disease!! I was prepared to take care of him for the rest of his life! Wow and first thing he did when I cracked open his maggot filled shell was try and throw me under the bus. The lying and justification is truly unbelievable.

So he took his polygraph test on Sat. morning. My therapist said try not to talk about it until Thursday when we meet, which is fine with me. All my h told me was that he passed the test (and it was humiliating) . I don’t know what the questions were – so passing means he didn’t lie.
gee so I have that going for me.

The whole thing really struck a chord with him. On his drive home he decided that it is incredibly stupid to even have to go through this and it could all be avoided if he would just man up and tell me everything. So he sat down and finished his sex history ~ which he was supposed to do months ago, and tried to get me to read it. I refused. He asked several times over the weekend and got squirmier every time I said no thanks, I can wait til Thursday. by last night he was almost in tears and told me there was never anything with anyone under 18 but that he has been a really awful person. I feel so indifferent right now.

zumba ~ on the 3rd disclosure w/ my h I found out several of his a/o was with people we know. Friends of mine. He said I knew everything then. a few weeks ago, my niece told me he has been making passes at her for 25 years (making her 15 when it started ~part of the reason for the polygraph) he lied and denied it and said she was full of shit. I called my sister and she confirmed it, and said he has been doing it to her too! Passes consist of playing footsie under the table, back rubbing, etc. it is a big deal because intent was there, and it creeped them out. I need to know everything now, I feel like people have known and have been protecting me and I find that so humiliating, like a whole different type of betrayal. The stuff that affected me personally is coming out now that I persisted. I can’t make my decision to stay or go until I know it all now.

so I guess thursday will be another d day. they want us to bring 2 cars down (3 hrs away) and for me to get a hotel and stay over night. Standard procedure…..? And my h made plans to go to a cabin with all our friends Friday. One of them he has been flirting with for over a year. They think I’m a bitch right now because I haven’t been avoiding them for the last 9 months. So all emails have gone to him ~ Mr. FUN!

sorry this is so long

hugs

Good advise from Flora, Hadj, you really need to make yourself feel as cared for as possible. Your friends’ misconception is so common and frustrating. With this syndrome especially, the truth about a couple is so contrary to the outward appearance and most of us arent going to shout it to the masses so they understand our behavior. Knowing that you won’t be presented with more disclosures from the past will be a spring board for the future, but I’m sorry for you that the revelations are so horrendous to endure. The truth really will set you both free.

Was the written sexual history part of his program? Is this practice part of a large network? I would like to find out if there is a practice like that in southern California. God bless you and watch over you. Love, Lylo

Hadj,

It sounds like this has really been a hell week for you. I am with the other women about your taking good care of yourself. Do you have some plans for the weekend?

I am surprised and impressed when I hear it gets this far. It is such a personal (humiliating) topic and experience. Unless they take the easy out, it does have to get really messy before the marraige can be sorted out. I’m sorry that you have to go through this.

Sending you strength and peace,

Love, Debora