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I’m trying to figure out what it is that’s lacking, and if the lack might actually be in me. This email below from him is very typical, and there really isn’t anything wrong with it. He’s just telling me what he’s doing. And I really do feel in my gut that he’s trying. So why does it bug me? I’m not looking to say that he’s an ahole or anything like that. I just am trying to peel away a layer to try to sort out my head and my heart. I know I should just accept that the way it leaves me feeling..sort of flat and dull and apathetic.. is just the way it is, and not look for second opinions. But I can’t seem to shake the feeling that maybe I expect too much, or need too much attention, or something like that. (And that’s even in spite of feeling pretty sure that he’s got a fundamental personality disorder going on.)
I still care about him as a person. I still have a hard time imagining being completely cut off from him. But maybe I am afraid to look at the possibility that I just don’t love him anymore in the way that I used to. I guess after 24 years it’s still a hard thing to look at, in spite of it being two years since discovery. Thank you for reading, sisters. xoxo
p.s. The homeless clinic he’s talking about is a program they have through the vet school for homeless people to come and get free medical care for their pets, which is a really great thing.
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His email:Hey sweetie, just back from my meeting. I hadn’t wanted to go tonight and really considered not, since I’m way behind in studying for a final next week, but I did a good program thing and prioritized recovery and went and am glad i did. I also forced myself to share – actually, forced myself isnt’ the right expression, I guess I let myself share instead of being caught up in negativity and self consciousness and it seems to help. I shared Monday too and it seems to be getting easier. The therapist seems to be helping a bit too, well maybe not helping but at least he’s using hypnosis to let me get at some childhood feeling of fear and inadequacy that I probably wouldn’t really let myself focus on in the past. So maybe it will pay dividends. This guy seems to think it will. Have to get up at 6am tomorrow to get myself to the homeless clinic, which sounds like an imposition, until I learned earlier this week that they actually get there 24 hours ahead of the opening of the clinic (like, today Friday at 7am) to be sure they will be on the list to be seen. And then they camp out there all night. Well I guess since they typically are homeless they have to “camp” somewhere but it isn’t their usual hangout and they have to shlep their animals too. Anyway that’s it from here. Hope you are doing good and that things are okay there. Again please let me know if there’s anything I can do there this weekend. Or next Saturday, that’s actually after my cardio final. I think that the only way to kill any fakeness is to see you more regularly, if you’re willing. I love you guys.
Annie,
I read your post and my thought was ‘seeking peace’. So many of us feel so unsettled with our feelings even after the relationship ends. And I think it’s hard, very hard but rather necessary to find peace. I think how we do that for ourselves is personal and individual for each of us. If we do find peace in some way then we become more at peace ourselves. For example, even though I am divorced from my
Xh and I write pretty candid about him, I do still struggle at times about my feelings towards him. I have to find peace with him and as far as my mother and my oldest brother goes, I have very hurt and strong feelings towards them. It’s not eating them up at all but it is me. I think your h is trying hard to do his best and you know that he likely is. Your feelings towards him are just and it’s difficult to know what to think about them and what to do with them. I think ‘seeking peace’ (not that we allow ourselves to be conned or abused) may help.
Love and peace,
Napxoxoannie,
it seems to me that there isn’t anything wrong with your reaction, it seems natural to me.. i may be off base, but perhaps you sense some gaslighting or insincerity in his message and that is why you don’t have a strong empathetic reaction? maybe your gut and feelings are spot on – IMO it’s ok to like or love them a little bit and not a lot.
Sorry, Annie, but it sounds like it’s all about him and his looking for a gold star. He almost didn’t go to his meeting but then he did!
And getting up to go to a homeless shelter at 6 am is an imposition? Can you say entitlement and lack of empathy? Well, okay, since they’ve been “camp”ing out for 24 hrs, it’s okay. OH, AND DID ANYONE MENTION? THEY ARE HOMELESS!
Of course, I’ve gotten pretty cynical from my years of fake recovery, so you are allowed to take my opinion with a grain of salt.
Annie, I really think don’t think you are lacking for anything other than the ability to trust your own gut.
I don’t know him, but that’s my take on his email and your question, Annie, for what it’s worth. 🙂
I understand how your feelings go. I think of my ex every day, but less and less time is spent “wondering if” (seconds really).
MY theory on their recovery is that we are the very thing that will precipitate a penis activity. We are the “rest area” for them and what they need is to engage the world without us, and deal with how they act and others react who they can’t count on to manipulate or abuse. The “fakeness” happens when he feels comfortable enough to perpetrate the con. In other words, I think it’s exactly the opposite of what he says. The “fakeness” will be worse if he sees you regularly. The “fakeness” will be beaten by forcing him to engage the world without you. And my theory is that either they do it, or they find another patsy when they realize we won’t.
IMO
D.Thank you, sisters. All such very good advice. Lisa, Teri, I think it’s not so much insincerity I sense, but your posts made it crystallize for me that he just seems so young somehow. Wanting the ‘gold star,’ like Teri said. And maybe that’s what is leaving me flat. NAP, yeah, seeking peace is the answer. I mostly don’t feel a whole lot towards him one way or the other these days..aside from pity..and I guess that’s at least a little more peaceful than my previous emotions about him in the last 2 years. Diane, that’s a really good point about the fakeness. I don’t know if he’s ever going to be able to beat that around me or around anyone else really. He just doesn’t know how to do anything other than ‘present’ himself. I think I need to face the likelihood that all the therapy and hypnosis in the world probably won’t change that, and this will be as good as it gets. xoxo
Annie,
I don’t like it when you feel muddled.
I know the fakeness all too well. And I’m certain, very certain that my H CANNOT ever be anything else but fake. I’m mean, he’s 57 years old. How in the world will he ever be able to change. I don’t think he can. It’s who he is, it’s how he’s made himself out to be. He will always be a “presenter”.
It’s so sad, isn’t it. I know how easy it is to feel pity for them because, well, lets face it, we loved them. We have normal emotions . . . they don’t. And that’s what’s really sad.
Chin up, my dear Annie. I’m always thinking of you.
Much love, Claire
You are so sweet, Claire. You are going through so much now yourself, but you still always think of others. It helps that you understand the ‘presenting’ thing, and how it’s so frustrating but at the same time evokes pity in us.
Much love back atcha. xoxoAnnie, to me the email sounded “off” and fake because of all of the SA 12 step meeting/therapy shit. I may be alone in this opinion but I will NOT listen to any of that stuff. When they tell you to watch what they do and not what they say then this is what they mean. If he is attending meetings and sharing and going to therapy then great. He should be. He does not need to send you an email about it. If it is helping him at all then you should be able to see the positive changes for yourself. He shouldn’t be using you as a cheerleader for his therapy.
If you want to know about his meetings or sharing then you should be able to ask him and know that he will discuss them with you honestly. Otherwise, he should stick to emails that normal people send.
I may be way off but I can’t stand that litany of “Look at all the great shit I’m doing…”.
I have noticed that a great many people in therapy begin to use therapy speak with others. It sounds fake because it isn’t what most people are accustomed to. Speak to me in a real live human way. All that “I hear you saying that I seem fake. I am sorry you feel that way. I have been to XYZ meeting and I have shared XYZ with the group …blah blah blah…” It is maddening.
Maybe if you asked him to keep all that stuff to himself unless you specifically ask then he would come across as more authentic ( if that is possible). 🙂
Oh Auntie Annie…I wish you lived close by. I would love to sit in front of the fire with a glass of wine and talk this through. I SO get this! I see so many parallels between your H and mine. I get that “look what I did, put a gold star on my chart” stuff all the time. And I feel the same lackluster, apathetic lack of feeling towards mine. I don’t think it is ever going to change. No matter how “good” my H is, nothing is going to erase the stain that he put on our 24 years of marriage. Nothing is going to take that away. There’s no way back to the belief that he will cherish me, put our family first, or be fully invested in the life we created. I feel pity for my H too because I think if he could take it all back, get a do-over knowing what he knows now, he would do things differently. But that is not possible. There is a taint on my love for him that is never going to go away. It is sad, but it is what it is. We didn’t cause it, it’s not because of any lack of emotion on our part. It is just part of the fall-out, the consequences of what they chose to do.
Here’s my take: these guys are some sick motherfuckers. Whether it’s an “addiction” or personality disorder or some other conglomerate mental illness, they ARE NOT normal. We’ve already established this, so now we have to ACCEPT it. And I don’t mean we have to allow it in our lives. No. I mean we have to stop expecting these insane men to act like normal people. Many of them, when they attempt “recovery,” begin feeling their emotions for the first time since they were, say, nine, and found their father’s Penthouse, and started escaping whatever atrocities were happening in their homes by jacking off to Miss November. After years and years of using this to cope, becoming more obsessed, and countering that by practicing to appear normal. Hey, probably wanting to BE normal. Whether some underlying disorder made them prone to the obsession, or the obsession itself created the disorder doesn’t matter: Again, these are some sick motherfuckers. We can choose to move on with our lives and leave them to their own sick motherfucker devices, or we can choose to stick with them, create some serious boundaries for how we’ll allow ourselves to be treated, and stop waiting for them to miraculously change into normal men. Once we fully comprehend this, we can make real choices.
I agree, March- Annie this isn’t about you. You are not “too” anything. You are a sweet, compassionate woman who is willing to see things in shades of gray and honestly take stock of yourself, and that is a good thing generally in normal relationships. There is nothing wrong with you. Trust yourself and your feelings.
Daisy what you posted really resonated with me. That is exactly how I feel. Gollum may really want to change this time. But I can never go back to feeling about him the same way. Too much fall out. I could never trust him again. Never. It all feels fake. His sex freak recovery language and his humble pie attitude. Until he sees that I am not tucking under like I did before. Then the mask slips and I see gollum again.
March you are spot on. They are not NORMAL. They can never be normal. And we have to accept that. That means that for some, they can make a marriage work. But if we try, we should have our eyes wide open. My therapist said to me this week that because I am an honest person, I do not have the frame of reference to imagine being deceived by such a patently dishonest person. She said when you are honest at your core you expect others to deal with you in the same honest manner.
The problem is just what March said. They are sick motherfuckers and mindfuckery is their specialty. And we have to understand that in order to obtain any peace. They are like aliens. We can’t understand why they do what they do, we just have to accept that this is who they are. Gollum has been doing this since he was 9. How can a person change that? I doubt that it is possible.
That monster that comes out when you stand up to them and let them know they aren’t fooling you? It’s called narcissistic rage.
You are all so wise!!! I would give anything to live near you ladies.. I so need a support system. Annie it seems like he is looking for brownie points and the email feels more like he is writing a letter of accomplishments.. Like a resume. But because I don’t know him I feel badly judging like that..apparently not that bad because I still judged lol
Thank you again, guys. Helps me feel like I’m not just looking for the negative, but that something really is lacking. Caligirl, that’s it..the resume thing. I know he means well; I really do. But God is it ever frustrating and empty-making. Daisy, I wish you lived near me too..Wish you all did. I’d break my 23 year no-alcohol (only quit to support *him* when he joined AA anyway) and get blottoed with you guys. 🙂 Love you all. xoxo
Annie….you are just like the rest of us who are pretty far into this? As time goes on you KNOW they are not going to significantly change. You also know what you didn’t know before? That their “condition” allows them to use up your life, risk your mental and physical health, lie straight to your face for years and generally not have an authentic emotion or bone in their body. Thats what it is. Now you simply have to choose. Do you want him and what he is? Or do you not? As March said, if you can ACCEPT the reality of the situation…you can begin to make the kind of informed choices that he tried to make sure you never had. The rest is up to you Annie. You don’t feel the same about him….maybe you don’t even love him anymore. With that in mind, what are your options and what is the best one for YOUR life? It really isn’t all that muddled Annie. Its just damn hard.
Big Hugs, KarenThat’s it in a nutshell. We cannot possibly feel the same about them. If we did then we would be the crazy ones for sure. Just because they are doing whatever it is right and are being nice or whatever does not mean we magically feel all this overwhelming love for them.
Karen and March are right. They are what they are. Even if your H is truly trying and making real progress does not mean he is normal all of a sudden. It’s all just icky really. How much enthusiasm should you expect yourself to come up with?
Not many marriages thrive on the fact that the husband is going to meetings and sharing……It’s sort of “meh” in my opinion 🙂
Thank you, Karen and Bev. You guys managed to sum it up with just a few words. “It’s all just icky really.” Yeah, Bev, it is. There’s not going to be any amazing breakthrough on his part. He is who he is. And I am who I am, and sad to say, I don’t think the two of us are ever going to mesh. I feel a lot of sorrow for him, and I think somehow I need to detach from that feeling, at least a little. Easier said than done, but I really gotta try. xoxo
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