First red flags

Wow, that would be a shocker to hear, the last experience thing.

Red flag, SJ was very clinical about sex, more like he was doing a documentary about sex than being with a woman he loved. I wrote that off to the fact that he reported having only had two lovers, his first girlfriend at 21, and then his wife of 25 years who he reported was ‘not interested at all’ in sex. Man, was THAT a lie! (The only two women part, I don’t know about his ex.)

He led me to believe for our entire marriage that I was the ‘more experienced’ partner and he needed to learn from me, and he was happy I was open to new things. Yeah, right. More like he wanted to try out the three page whore’s ‘menu’ and rate them all so he’d know what to ask for on appointments without wasting time or money.

God, do I feel dirty when I think about our sex life, now. I will never forgive him for that. I am SO blessed our marriage ended before he moved us up to the stuff he REALLY wanted to try out.

I was the wife, damn it, why do I feel cheap about sex with him? The whores were cheap, and I was just fooled. But to have been with him and being compared to them constantly when I didn’t know it. The whole concept is so vulgar and vile.

Ok, calm down. HE was vulgar and vile. I was in love. I was sharing the most intimate things exactly where they belong, with a pure heart and that was not vulgar or vile. I was being a woman of faith and truth. His intentions were hidden, and mine were shared. I did not act in accessory to his perversion, I was just an object like all the others.

There. Awful, but reality. I was not accessory, but merely an object to use.

Not anymore.

I laugh out loud for no apparent reason. Almost as much as I used to cry for no apparent reason. Things just hit me out of the blue and the puzzle pieces fit and I have to laugh at myself: WTF? Why didn’t I see that before?

Maybe because I don’t consciously think about it all that much, and my subconscious is free to move around all those things I’ve been hugging so tightly in anguish. All that misery in trying to make sense of the senseless. Now that I don’t care, the picture is getting clearer and clearer. Figures.

Amen, Meg.

Jo, we had issues that I attributed to his inexperience as well. It was just really awkward, he would do things that hurt me and then act like he couldn’t help it, he was just doing what “felt natural” to him (and then keep doing it and over time say I was just too controlling, demanding, humiliating, he never had trouble like this with anyone else in the past…blah blah blah), and then there was the time he told me about a couple that approached him for a threesome in college that I laughed about (I thought it was a “weird experiences” story, now I think he was testing the water).

Biggest red flag was my gut. I felt like something was missing or off. I felt I loved him but I wasn’t “in love” at the time that was the best I could phrase it. But now I see it was a lack of real emotional intimacy. I tried to talk to him about it, but he went bezerk, so I just let it drop and thought it was my issue. He was so nice, after all, what was wrong with me? But he would in some ways be all attentive and then in others completely ignore me. Like he never asked about my studies or my research project or how my day went or anything about me. But sometimes he would go out of his way to get me something I wanted- this I recognize now as glamour gaslighting. At the time the seemingly mixed messages kept me off-balance and doubting myself.

My biggest red flag quite honestly was his family dynamics – he was partner to his mother and father to his siblings – the whole I am bi-sexual thing I was too young to appreciate and the displacement I felt from his culture was far more painful than anything else for many years. I knew that I didn’t count in the ways that I should and frankly the emotional second and third place left me bereft – I tried to get him help, us help, and then I got help for myself because it was not an option to leave my kids with him or his fucked up family. I don’t regret any of that. When he really went off the rails 3 years ago, his anger escalated. His criticism of me, his fluctuation between buying me expensive gifts and being asleep on the couch when I came home from work – exhausted form hooking up – completely not clear to me then so I would not have caught it, had no reason to. Now of course it’s 20/20. I will say that he has done a complete turn around – what that means for me is not relevant at the moment ‘cos I am doing well independent of that – it is what it means for him and of course our sons who have begun to heal. Sex was good with us when his family was out of the picture – he has disconnected from them and become a different person —if I really had a sound answer to this question I would be on Oprah:-)

Well – I can totally relate to that Diane! Talk about wanting the information and wisdom of someone else’s experience to disrupt my own:-) What a difference that would have made – I was clueless as to what a manipulative, lying, hideously treacherous woman his mother is! He has finally ended that dynamic but the damage she was allowed to perpetrate is as bad as his!

Well they thought they did.
Her “cover” is extreme church lady, complete with the white gloves.
She’s a narc. And they had no idea that she had nothing but contempt for them. We had to be her audience. She would start with her supposed “friends” go up and down them like a railroad track with vicious jealous petty criticism, and then when she was done she would start on their children and do the same thing, and then when she was done she woudl start on the grandchildren. I would challenge this behaviour and pay mightily with her nasty remarks to me then, or she would go and sulk and ruin whatever event we were having.

Just one person. that’s all it would have taken. But everyone was clearly terrified of criticizing her and well they should have been. She is unholy terror. My ex’s therapist called her an emotionally incestuous monster.

Diane- can totally relate. My MIL was Catholic Mother of the Year. She used to laugh about that. Bad mouth everyone behind their back, tell embarrassing stories to their face, triangulate, try to control her kids and grandkids, attack them (often publicly) if they don’t do what she says, treat some of her kids/grandkids like royalty while ignoring others, no interest in hearing about other people unless if was a disparaging story…

My mother, in her unassuming way, tried to warn me. She once said,”She certainly loves her kids.” which was her way of saying,”She won’t shut up about bragging about them and doesn’t let anyone get a word in edgewise.” I didn’t clue in until later. I do wish she would have said something more direct- about MIL and my dad and a lot of people. About the difference between healthy people and relationships and unhealthy ones.

And I get being blamed for that. I have been, too.

As I have said before, it’s just like in school or sitcoms. The person provoking isn’t caught. It’s the person reacting. And then the provoker just looks all innocent- “I don’t know what her problem is?” dr. e learned it from his master monster mom.

Meg, it’s okay. I know I use humor to cope. The absurdity of it all is so amazing to me.

All the weird stuff surfacing through this, I feel like I’ve been playing emotional “whack-a-mole” for a very long time, just to survive. Everything popping up all over the place: terror, sorrow, rage, etc. and my trying to stop them all. Now it’s different, either because I just got exhausted or because I learned that I can’t stop them all anyway. They don’t hang around long if I don’t engage them. Usually they are on their way somewhere else, and I can let them go. If not, a wise thing I learned here is that you can sit it with it as long as it takes, which is better than standing guard eternally.

I still use humor to cope. Like that “ridiculouso” spell in Harry Potter, I guess. Sometimes I’m even too tired for that, but not often.

28 year old living at home with mom and dad.

Sorry Victoria my h was 28. He is 51 now. I say that more of an indication of his inability to separate from parents not for sexual deviance. I am not judging you Victoria. Your situation is totally different. I would go back home with my mom if er got along.

I can relate to several red flags already discussed by Jo and Meg…sex was very clinical and although physically good was devoid of emotion and always left me feeling very lonely. Also had those gut feelings that something was very off but could not put my finger on what it was. I used to call it the “feeling of dread” but he would never admit to anything and I always thought the distance between us was due to him reacting to work, kids, or other issues. After discovery he did admit those feelings were right on most of the time. He also was extremely too touchy feely with other females and would make off beat sex jokes in front of friends that would make me uncomfortable. I also sensed a feeling of “sex” in the air when he would come home sometimes…very hard to describe but would happen frequently when he came home from extended travel.
Other red flags…total unaccountability when gone he would blame on his “too busy” schedule and no access to phone or credit card records. Also hot and cold too much of the time…I think to give him justification for his actions. I think I always knew that he was screwing around but was in denial because I had no proof and was not pursuing the truth.

my first red flag should have been my gut feeling that i didn’t really like him that much. i decided to go with it (he pursued me big time) because i thought he was a good guy and good marriage material.

hahahahahahahahaha!!! jokes on me

and because i wanted to get out of calgary and move to nyc with him. i should have known i could do that by myself. but, i was only 21…