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Today marks the five month anniversary of my latest DDay. I haven’t posted much on my personal situation lately because I’m just not sure what to make of where we are. My H moved out at my request immediately after I confronted him with discovery. He is living in a log cabin we built together eight years ago. It’s remote and he has no internet capability there. We talk every day via phone and text every day while he’s at work and he calls me when he’s on the road back to the cabin at night so that I know where he is (as in NOT in a strip club). This is his way of complying with my request for transparency. He has shown me his computers (work and home) and says that he threw away his flash drives that he used to keep his porn on. The only thing I have not seen is his phone which is a work phone and has to be password protected per company policy. He showed me the email from corporate HR requiring the password so I know this is legit. When he is with me, he usually leaves the phone outside in his car so that I know he is not using it. I think he should give me the password and the phone so I can see for myself but that hasn’t happened to date. He typically comes home on Sunday afternoon, spends the evening with me, picks up the bills, etc. and stays over Sunday night and leaves from here to go to work. We sleep in the same bed but no physical contact.
My relationship with my H is cordial. He does not now, nor ever has, treated me unkindly (other than wasting time staring at porn and fucking strippers, of course). We have sporadic conversations about what progress he is making in therapy but generally when we spend time together, we are talking about the kids, the dogs, his work, etc. He tells me often how sorry he is that he did this, accepts full accountability and says he is working on fixing the damage he has done. He has a CSAT that he sees weekly. I have met him (Kent Ernesting) and he is wonderful. He was very supportive of me in our meeting. Kent shares a “strategic partnership” with Barbara Steffens, in that they maintain separate practices in the same office and do intensives and couples therapy together. My H and I have both expressed to Kent that we would like to do an intensive and/or couples counseling with him and Barbara, but nothing has been scheduled yet. My H says they are working on the disclosure so I am thinking that an intensive and certainly any couple’s therapy will have to wait until after disclosure. Even though Kent does groups, my H is not in one. I’m not sure exactly what to make of that. My H has said he is willing to do group if Kent thinks he should. My gut tells me he is telling the truth about that.
I don’t think my H is a narc although I think he probably would score high on the narc scale, similar to what Bev described about her H. I’m hoping that at some point I will be given the results of the behavioral testing Kent did when my H started therapy. My H is an only child, is adopted and his mother is a major narc. He says he doesn’t believe that being adopted has anything to do with what he did. He definitely has inadequacy issues and emotional intimacy issues but he attributes that to his parents divorcing when he was 2 and father dying when my H was a young boy (leaving him with narc mommy). As I’ve said in other posts, my H is very clear that nothing in his past caused him to make bad choices – he did that all on his own with full knowledge that what he was doing was wrong. I tend to be more willing to blame his mother for some of this than he does.
So that’s where I’m at. 5 months in, living alone (my 20 year old son lives here too but is rarely home and my 18 year old daughter is away at college), not unhappy except for the typical crying jags at the slightest provocation, probably spending way too much time with my thoughts, not getting out enough and still procrastinating whenever I have to go the grocery (like now). Still hurt that this happened, still experiencing a sense of disbelief that THIS is my life. Still not sure whether I’m a stay-er or a go-er. Still not sure if I can overcome my fear of trusting someone with my heart and my sexuality. But on the plus side, I have learned I can live alone if I want to or have to. I am learning (slowly) to like myself (really for the first time in my life) and appreciate my good qualities. And I am trying to use this time alone to try to visualize what I want my post-SA life to look like, whether its with or without my H.
Well Daisy….if u can learn to like yourself then you will have learned a great deal? We all like you immensely. 🙂
As for your H….I’m not the one to comment on him or his progress except I don’t know why you don’t have the password to his phone either.
Daisy, have you asked for the password, or are you waiting for him to offer it up? That’s a real question, by the way, not a judgement. I’m curious. His leaving the phone in the car would be a red flag for me. You could also see he’s not using it if he’s not using it in the house.
Of course then there is the utter futility of trying to monitor a phone that he has all week to clean up…..but I would also wonder why he leaves it in the car.
Actually I am curious about something too. I think you have mentioned graduate classes before. What are you studying?
Daisy, your situation sounds very similar to mine. I’ve actually grown to like being on my own, to the point that I can’t envision ever living with someone again. And actually that scares me a little. And procrastinating going to the grocery store.. I’m doing that at this very moment! 🙂 Five months after discovery is really not very long, and you sound pretty damn sensible to me, in the face of all this. I think it’s a blessing that you already had another home he could move into, and I think you’ll find that being on your own will continually help to clear your head. He sounds like he’s sincerely working on recovery, but like March asked, have you asked for his phone password? Hang in there, sweetie..sooner or later we’ll both get to the grocery store. xoxo
My H’s work blackberry is password protected too and I can understand why. However, he won’t give me the password b/c he says he could fired. Yeah right! Like leaving in the middle of the day to go fuck a hooker won’t get you fired but giving your wife the password to your phone will? He has changed all the passwords to the 3 emails that I do know about and I haven’t bothered asking for it b/c I feel like he should be offering them up and not requiring me to stoop to ask for them. I’m still in the pretty sure I’m a “go-er”, as you put it Daisy. I just need to find the courage to get on with it. As for you, it sounds like things are in a semi-good situation – are you comfortable with just going with this for a while longer or is your post motivated by your desire to “move forward” and you’re on the fence about what that is?
Right after I posted I made myself get in the car and go to the damn grocery. Done! (now patting myself on the back for pulling up my big-girl pants)
Karen, thank you for liking me. I like you too! 🙂 I just finished my Masters degree in Library and Information Science. Nobody in my real life thought it was a big deal – since I already have a law degree, a Masters is nothing, right? Except for my H. He has been incredibly supportive and told me often how proud he was of me. In reality, going back to school in my late 40’s and managing to finish up my degree and start an internship 2 weeks after this latest shit storm broke over my life IS a big deal and part of my “Like Daisy” campaign includes being justifiably proud of myself even if no one else thinks it’s a big deal.
Regarding the phone: At some point last month I told my H that I was bothered by the lack of transparency. At that point he gave me the phone password (in an email) and told me I could look at it any time. This was at the same time he brought home his work computer and let me look through it. In the times he was home over Christmas I just never got around to asking for or looking at his phone. My daughter was home, we were dealing with other things, and I just forgot about it. By now the password has changed – they get new ones every month. I do think he would show it to me if I asked. I’m also very aware that he could erase anything incriminating off it before giving it to me so I’m really not sure what the point is. I am trying to stay away from any sort of monitoring activity because being the paranoid cynic that I am, I’m convinced if he wanted to find a way to screw strippers and look at porn, he’s gonna find a way regardless of any time and effort (and money) I expend. I need to feel safe without the need for monitoring. I’m not sure that is possible. That is one of the many things I’m questioning right now.
FC, most of the time I’m okay where I am right now. I mentally gearing myself up for disclosure. Without knowing what I will find out from that, it’s too difficult to judge what I want to do afterwards. I do think I am very fortunate in the way my H treats me. I have avoided much of the bad shit that so many of the sisters have experienced which makes it much easier for me to play this waiting game.
Annie, yes it was totally a blessing that we had the other house (especially with no internet). He has a long drive to work from there but he says it gives him time to think about the things he’s learning in therapy so even that has been a blessing. I hope you make it to the grocery! I chickened out on going to the big grocery and went to the much smaller one that’s close to my house. They may not have as much of a selection but it’s so much easier in a less crowded, smaller space. I’m just hoping I have enough to avoid another grocery run for a couple weeks. 🙂
All of this sounds promising, Daisy. I’d like to see him be an example of strong recovery. In any event, I hope you find peace.
I’d like him to be that too, March but I’m trying to remain nothing but slightly hopeful and focused on my own healing.
Dear Daisy,
I think you sound really good and thanks for the update. We have so many new sister’s at this time- I have often thought of starting a new post…. And just put a one paragraph summary of where we are in the journey (for everyone’s quick reference).One thing that did stand out to me- at the end of your post you were talking about a “post SA life”…. With or without your husband in the picture. I just wanted to point out- if he ends up staying in the picture…. It really won’t be post SA. Unfortunately, that part will never completely stop haunting you and there will always be a chance for relapse.
At any rate…. I love all the things you are discovering- like how you can live alone, etc. This is valuable information and before you would have to do something more permanent! Are you in Ohio? I would love to meet up with you someday.
Another thing with this cell phone business…. I agree that is BS that he leaves it in the car and that would be a trigger for me. But nonetheless, as I found out the hard way- these guys can purchase other cell phones easily (like Dum Dum did)…. And anything else for that matter. I think you are on a good path to just give up the monitoring bullshit. It’s such a joke, IMO. (after my own experience)…. They just get sneakier. Ugh. The only way I support monitoring is if the dumbasses don’t know you are doing it and you are gathering evidence.
The rest is lame….. “look Mommy… You got the report from the computer and now you see I haven’t looked at naked women”….. Barf.
Keep up the good work, sister. I think, slowly but surely you will come to realize what is right for you! Thank you so much for all of your sharing and input!
Love,
SL
I am guessing the whole disclosure thing is hanging over your head Daisy. It’s hard to imagine a recovery or anything else for that matter with the ‘Sword of Damocles’ waiting for you…
You are doing great and it sounds like he is too. Just ask him for the damn passwords. Tell him to email you the new ones every month. I have found that they ( passwords) are useless because as you pointed out, they are not idiots. They will clean up anything before you can find it. I just think it creates less emotional stress if you have them. The desire to even look diminishes. If they want to ‘act out” they will. It’s just that simple. having the passwords helps me not to focus any energy in that direction. Hang in there…and for what it’s worth, I like you very much 🙂
I turned my anger in the direction of the grocery store. I am going to win that struggle 🙂
I refuse to do one second of monitoring. I’m 2 months in and haven’t figured out what I want to do yet. If I decide to stay in the marriage, I’m thinking that I’d want him to do quarterly lie detector tests. That feels totally ridiculous to even type, let alone live with it, but I think that’s the only way that I’d know for sure that he wasn’t f’ing hookers, and it wouldn’t require me to spy daily on him. Do any of you use the lie detector tests as part of a long-term plan?
daisy,
i think you are doing incredibly well! you sound grounded, wise, sane. i agree with you about not monitoring, i don’t monitor DW, and feel better for it. i do get covenant eyes reports, a few weeks ago a review was suggested, and i didn’t even really care… i figure i’ll bring it up some day in a counselling session, but in the meantime, i’m wasting no energy on that. we all know we can’t prevent anything by monitoring. only discover.
the fact that you brought up the i phone password shows to me that it bothers you. these guys do not get ANY secrecy IMO. the 12 step program and treatment programs tell them otherwise, but if they want to be in the relationship, they should have NOTHING secret.
and… IMO if his mother was a narcissist, he learned some of that or at least other weird shit from her. DW was nice enough for the first 14 years. then a monster for 8. he’s nice again now. so i frankly don’t trust the ‘nice’ SAs, i guess it might be possible, but how can they really be treating their partners well – what kind of thoughts must go in their heads to do the shit they do?
i could be wrong, so i hope i’m not being too negative for you – i wouldn’t want to bring you down.
more importantly i’m really proud of you, for you new degree, for your healthy detachment, your patience. just keep putting yourself first.
xo
lisa
Thanks Bev, I like you too a whole lot. I have a confession about the grocery. I broke one of my cardinal rules and went when I was hungry. As a result, I’m sitting here eating donuts with my coffee. Oops. I guess I’ll consider it a reward for besting the grocery battle. You’re right about the phone. I’ll ask him to give me the passwords when they change and ask him to bring his phone in and leave it on the kitchen counter. That way I can look if I choose or not.
I’m not that concerned about the disclosure. I mean, I know it’s coming up and I’m sure it will be stressful but I already know he’s been with other women so I don’t really have any illusions to shatter – unless he’s been raping farm animals. I draw the line at animal abuse. My biggest question from disclosure is whether he’s done anything “bad” since DDay. THAT will give me pause. A slip with porn I can handle but anything other than that will be very difficult for me to accept.
SL, that was an excellent point about the post-SA life. I was wrestling with that very question with my therapist on Friday. Could I be happy in a marriage with this as Bev so aptly put it, sword of Damocles hanging over my head? I just don’t know the answer to that. Yes, I’m in Ohio (Dayton). If you ever want to make a pit stop on your way to Indy, let me know. We can meet somewhere! Where in Tennessee is your lake located? My grandma’s family was from southeastern Kentucky (Williamsburg in Whitely County near Jellico), right on the Tennessee border and I have been wanting for years to get down there and see where she grew up and do some genealogy research.
I’m glad you are have your own space, Daisy. It was crucial for me. I wonder if you just don’t know what you want yet. And that’s okay. I think it’s spectacular that you did the LS masters. My niece has that one.
I also think you are a really enjoyable person and your husband is a jerk for hurting you this way. A complete jerk.
Just like mine is a jerk. A stupid infantile jerk.Keep going. you will know what you need to do.
and thanks for sharing your story. It keeps us honest, I think.Ali, I would think quarterly lie detector testing would be prohibitively expensive. And just too much monitoring for me.
Lisa, I definitely agree with you on the no secrets thing. This is one of the things that I know my H will have to work on long term if we do get back together. He grew up in a world of secrecy so that is very normal for him. He’s always held back on sharing certain things even with me and I know I know him better than anyone else. Part of his battle will be learning that openness is part of emotional intimacy and as I said, he’s not too good at that. His therapist is working on it with him, though and I have seen some progress. Fortunately for me, he and his mother do not get along. He says he is grateful to her for raising him and he loves her because she is his mom but he does not like her as a person and would never associate with her if she was not his mother. He is very detached from her which is good except that she has given up on him and has for years been trying to alienate our children from us. She hasn’t had much luck there either, Thank God. She is a sad, sad woman. I can think that when I’m not busy hating her. When we were at her house for Christmas she had a book sitting on her sofa table “A Grieving Mother: How to Cope When You Don’t Get Along With Your Grown Child”. Seriously? And she wonders why they don’t get along? She is largely responsible for my H’s sense of inadequacy. He is quite obviously bi-racial and she hates black people. He is an accountant but works in a manufacturing environment and she thinks that if you don’t wear a suit to work, you’re not successful. Nightmare! But I do agree with you. I can’t quite reconcile how such a nice guy who claims to love me more than life itself could make such awful decisions which he knew would hurt me. Honestly, I try not to dwell on that too much because I’m pretty sure there is no answer.
Thanks Diane. I wish with all my heart that every sister had the means and opportunity to get their H out of the house after discovery. It IS absolutely crucial in order to have any sort of clarity IMO. I really enjoy (most of the time, sometimes I get lonely) having the house to myself. It will be a serious adjustment if he ever moves back. You’re right too, I don’t know what I want to do. I’m not going to try to figure it out until after I see what disclosure brings. Patience has never been my strongest virtue so this has been a learning experience in that as well.
Lisa, if he wasn’t so detached from his mother, our marriage would have ended years ago, long before I found out about the SA shit!
Hi Daisy,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and feelings here. Laughed my head off about the “deal-breaker” above you described above… Would hate to have to call in the SPCA.
Help me out here ladies, as I am relatively new to the SA scene. So, the disclosures continue? Is that when you have the polygraph done? I thought there is just the one disclosure…. not that I believe my h gave me the whole truth. He would probably pass the polygraph anyway as he has unbelievable lying skills.
I’ve resolved to leave him, have filed for divorce, etc. but in a weak moment I asked him if he would take a polygraph. He said he would think about it. That was at Christmas, no word yet. Then, I think why bother, just get myself the hell out of this marriage. If I stay it feels like I’m in line for the guillotine. No, I take that back; staying means I voluntarily placed my neck on the guillotine and I’m just waiting for that blade to fall.Daisy,
A red flag went off for me in your update. Your husband says that being adopted at birth has had no effect on him. He probably thinks this, but it’s not true. It was just pre-verbal and he is clueless about it. There is all kinds of stuff that happens when you are separated from your mother at birth. And then he got a narc mother? Same thing happened to me. Nothing like getting relinquished at birth and then landing in the shit pile. Not an excuse for his behavior….just pointing out that he has a lot of work to do to figure out where his stuff came from.
Deb
Kandice, the disclosure that I was referring to is a formal one, that he is working on with his CSAT. When he makes the disclosure it will be in his CSAT’s office with both our therapists present (or some support person for me) and there will be a polygraph afterwards.
Deb, having read other posts on this subject, I know that’s your perspective on adoption. I’m just not sure I buy it in my H’s case. I did ask him a while ago if he and his CSAT had discussed his adoption and he said no. He said he put it on the initial paperwork he did when he started therapy but it has not come up since then. I do understand that for some people being adopted is traumatizing but I don’t necessarily think that is true in every case. But then again, I’m just not into looking for deep psychological explanations for all this. I just want him to follow my Dad’s #1 rule for boys (and men): KYPIYP (Keep Your Pecker In Your Pants).
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