- This topic has 16 replies, 8 voices, and was last updated 13 years, 10 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Hi ladies,
It seems to me that we focus so much on these men and their words or their intentions or their behavior and thinking about what they might be thinking, and when we do that…..they have us right where they want us….living their lives instead of ours, focusing on our behavior instead of theirs.
If we ask, why did you?, what were you thinking?, I think we kind of encourage that…because really we don’t want excuses, and that sort of question invites excuses. We just want the behavior to change. One thing I have consciously tried to do is to state state how I feel in response to something ( a behavior, comment, etc) and just leave it at that, not to expect a certain behavior or response from him. And I find that it works to keep the focus off of my feelings and on his behavior.Any tips from anyone regarding how you do things with your SA?
Love,
MarieHi Marie,
I liked your picture. You are a lovely women! And I like your new words of encouragement in your new picture, but you look different. LOL
So let me understand, are you suggesting we focus on our feelings and express them relating it to their behavior, or do you suggest we not focus on our feelings and their behaviors. I am a little confused. It seems like you felt your feeling and expressed yourself relating it to his behavior. Am I getting that right? Thanks Marie. B. Trayed
Marie,
I think what you do makes really good sense. They seem to like it in a sadistic way when we focus on them (mine did anyway). Probably some kind of sick control thing.Another option may be to totally ignore the bad behavior and give positive reinforcement for the good. That way, there is no attention given to the bad (which they seem to like). Of course, this would mean a person would need to be getting some good behaviors from their SA. For example, for me, it would have been: “Oh XSAH, thank you so much for actually going to your SA meeting tonight instead of skipping it and having sex with a prostitute, here’s your favorite cookies”.
NAP, you are just such a cool woman.
Marie, I’ve been addressing this very thing in my own life. I am paying attention to my own life and responding to it. This has taken me quite a long time. D-day was Sept09, and JoAnn will vouch for my tentative test the water approach all the way along. I have great courage in so many areas, but the courage to take my own life just as seriously as I took my SA’s life has been a work in progress. And I’m not even trying to it MORE seriously than his—just equally seriously. But boy, as soon as I take one little baby step in that direction, it’s like the tectonic plates are shifting deep in the grounding of my life and when I take the next step, the horizon has changed, I’m headed somewhere else, and it’s all good.
So today I met with my financial advisor and told him I wanted him to look at the numbers and figure out the best way to buy me 8-12 months without a steady job. I have scrimped and saved my whole life in a non-profit job and I want to try to develop another career now. But I need time to do it. I’m seriously considering investing in my own abilities to do this. I want to write and speak. The nest egg isn’t big, but it never will be, so this could be my last chance to see if something else could be born from my life.
What do you think? And if I’m taking my own life as seriously as my SA’s
you can too! Start listening to yourself. Start trusting yourself. This is the only life we get—do you really want to squander any more of it on the —(now watch out here, I’m quoting some of the names we’ve given our SA’s)–**hole, douchebag, turd, slimeball, f***king ***hole, pig, sh**head, sadistic monster, arrogant bastard, pond scum, regular scum, etc.etc.etc.I mean really—that’s who we are squandering our lives on when we let them have so much focus!!!!!
I get what you’re saying, Marie, but for me taking that approach would depend on if my H had already acknowledged his psycho thought processes and was truly remorseful and was diligently working on his recovery. My husband has finally told me that he had lied and hid his true self from himself and others his whole life and so all his actions, words, gestures were lived through his persona self. It is his false self that I found attractive and was in love with. So once the mask is off, what is there? My counselor said to me last week as we discussed this subject – he is a poser. Right. He is not the great and powerful OZ. He is that trembling pathetic man behind the curtain. He said he had to lie to himself to be able to live and he faked the Marlboro man and Easy rider. My counselor said with sincere regret, “He has to survive.” I know what she meant. Unfortunately, that puts us in a position of having to accept the lie or pretend there isn’t an elephant in the room. I did that for him my whole marraige and that is what is killing me. Now that the curtain is pulled back neither of us can pretend any longer.
I cannot trust my husbands behavior because he faked good behavior and the nice guy for years. It is what is in his heart, his way of thinking and his motives that I am most concerned with. Last weekend he told me that he did this stuff to hurt me and so that I would feel as rejected as he felt. Problem is….he felt this way from childhood. Any woman would be his object of affection and would be in the fear-of- rejection cycle. His actual thought process was to hurt someone like he has been hurt…psychopathic thinking. Just what pedophiles do.
I cannot just take up golfing and get a social life and pretend I’m not thinking about who the person I’m married to truly is. I know he is suffering and doesn’t want to be this way but he is this way. So like NAP says…Good boy, if you can tell me you didn’t get drunk or buy a watch and have it shipped to a covert address today, you can have a stepford wife smile and I’ll make us some sandwiches. JoAnn has her 80/20 rule and, like you, is in full awareness of what you are choosing to live with and that there are enough other great qualities in him that you would be willing to work through this problem. Each of us has to weigh out all those factors unique to our situation.
So for me I told him I knew about the watch he hid in the porn – uh, I mean, pole barn and I asked, “Why did you do that?” How he answers tell me everything I need to know. “Uh, I tried to have it shipped to my PO Box but they wouldn’t do that. I was just going to look at it and then ship it back. I’ve never done this before.” Stupid. I mentioned that we have a mailing address…
I have been his mother and therapist for 25 years. I don’t want to be his babysitter and the thought police for the next 25. I wish he was a whole man. It hurts to come to the truth about our situations. B-Trayed – that book Too Bad to Stay, too Good to Leave is a gem.
I know I’m rambling now. Talking to myself. I guess for me I cannot feel safe in a marraige that I don’t know who I am married to. that was all destroyed last July. He has done some family of origin work (good) but does not want to go near his addiction to cope problems and uses all the tactics to avoid.
JoAnns boundary post applies here, if you raise the bar and they respond that is good. If they don’t respond that is an answer and we have to face what that means and make the decision to accept it or detatch to protect ourself. Not making a decision is a decision.
I will ask why as long as I am here. the lying deceitfulness is worse than the behavior.
Just some thoughts,
Debora
Diane,
I was outside, prior to seeing your post, but remembering your response to being a “bud” and I thought how well you express yourself through writing, thinking you could write a book or something…Then I came in and read your post, so that goes to show, you need to write! Sincerely, B. TrayedI completely agree with you, Deb. I couldn’t stay and work with someone who wasn’t willing to work with me. What kind of life would that be? ….the life we used to have…NEVER again.
MarieHi Debora,
Your husband and mine are very much the same. My husband lied his whole life (and still is) about who he is and had this fake persona. All the while, he worked full time at trying to make me as miserable as he was by the way he treated me. Exactly as you describe your husband and your experience you also describe mine. Mine “acted” like he wanted to get sober and recover but actually lied about that too. As you very well describe, we either continue on with the facade, detach, or end the relationship. It was hard for me to “pretend” things were “okay” in front of other people when in fact, like you, I knew they were not. I knew my H wasn’t really serious and had so many deep, deep defenses in place to keep his addiction.I just want you to know its so real, the pain of this and the anger of knowing we were “fooled” all the while trying to be a loving wife to them…no more of me for mine. He doesn’t deserve me in any, way, shape or form. Mine “got rid” of me before I would have eventually left…how long it would have taken me I don’t know, it was a very difficult place to exist in, the limbo life of knowing the truth yet they keep on trucking, not knowing how to change and not wanting to take the help to change.
Debora, you are a beautiful, smart, loving, woman. I love to read what you write because you describe complex things so well and I always feel your heart. You are so caring and kind…thinking of you….love, nap
Hi Deb,
The fake personna is a scarry thought. My H does that as well. His personality is modeled after his father, he does and acts just like he does, it is a learned personality.I realized this when we had a conversation a while back. He was basically saying he does not know who he is, and for me to tell him what i want in a husband, so he can be that. There is really no “person” per say; they act as people like and learned that this is how you get through society. Because who they really are will get them nowhere. So he pretends to be this nice guy, loving, kind, holds your hands, hugs (all of which his dad does). But that is not the true him its his hold or what he has learned.
Once a while back after I wanted to distnace myself from him, i said i did not want hugs anymore, i did not want him to touch me. He freaked out big time, upset that I was controlling the situation and that he would then also lose part of his power over me. Weird it a strange thing to freak out over, but i am not a posession, i have thought and feelings too.
Its all so weird. But that is the psychpath’s way. They learn through life how they are supposed to act, and sometime you see the real them little glimmers when they do not treat us lijke we have any feelings aor with no emotional attachment; but for the most part they play their part really well.
Who ever knew there were people out there like this? No me.
Deb,
Your thoughts were expressed so well. Taking up golf and getting a social life are difficult when you are just trying to survive, on day at a time, one moment at a time. Really, if people are in the dazed place of PTSD, then we are in some ways, like the Jews in the concentration camps, just trying to cope with each day. Asking those prisoners, hungry for food and a simple shower, to consider working on their social life or taking up a hobby just doesn’t fit.My heart is lonely at times, and trying to be with people to broaden my social circle, as to not be overly dependent on h, is difficult at time. I don’t enjoy the people, or the conversation is so shallow. They ask how I am, a question I do not answer for anyone now usually-just skip onto, “Well, how are you?”
I tried to take up ice skating before. It was going to be MY THING. I got some great skates, imagining myself twirling and whirling so gracefully. (I had taken lessons when I was younger, so I felt like I would not be starting from scratch.) Well, I was an older person in a semi-beginner class. Lovely, great to be with kids almost my kid’s ages. Anyway, I tried and tried, but did not really enjoy it much at all. My back crossovers were about as graceful as King Kong doing a floor exercise for the Olympics! Watch out Nadia!
Anyway, I do think it is good to try to build a life for ourselves, but as Diane so beautifully expressed, it is not so easy or natural! (Great plate tectonic’s talk Diane!)
Sincerely, B. TrayedGood morning everyone,
I think what this thread of wisdom and experience reveals is just how hard it is for us to think about our own lives without thinking about them. We get sucked back down the hole of what they did or didn’t do, etc. And this is no pointing fingers thing—I’m in it up to my neck with all of you! We are writhing about in the context of a relationship that is one-sided. They don’t writhe around. We do, agonizing over — How can we make it work? How can we set things up? How can we prepare for this or that? What will we do when…? Blahblahblah. They just get up in the morning and follow their penis. Or, on a good day, they try to keep it in their pants.Yes, we are traumatized and need support, counsel, safety. But after a while, we have to rebuild our life. I can say golf will never be a part of that rebuilt life, but I have also stepped out and done things, tried things, just for the hell of it. And surviving those experiences was key to my rebuilding. I needed to know that my life could go in other directions and it wouldn’t kill me. Because PTSD had me convinced that my life was in jeopardy all the time.
My sense of this sisterhood is that it includes some of the most remarkable women I have ever brushed up against. For example, reading about B-trayed’s career as a teacher just blew me away. What an extraordinary person it takes to teach in a context full of such hardness, pain, failure and fear. Yet you can do that. By God, woman, don’t you realize you can do anything! What would you tell the kids you teach about a situation like the one you are in?
Love. Behaviour. Hmmm. What the relationship between the two? If what a person does reveals the love they have to us—then check out the SA behaviour, but also check out our own behaviour to ourselves. Do we give ourselves enough grace to be clumsy with our lives when we’re rebuilding them? Do we expect we will succeed at everything—placing unreal expectations on each step we take? Do we resent having to do it at all that we sabotage ourselves with our own anger? How many chances will we give ourselves–as many as we gave the SA–probably not?
Anyway I’m rambling now. this must be the post to ramble on.
love to all,
D.Wow Diane what you just wrote tells it all. I found it so profound because we don’t give ourselves the break we give anyone else, yet we need to. I was getting frustrated with myself because my move is going a lot slower than planned, and your comment makes me feel so much better. I’m doing it alone, have nothing, have to shop for everything, make decisions by myself, move stuff by myself. Its a great growing experience and now I feel okay if it takes me a while to get it done. Thank you for the great post. I’m going to copy it. We are all remarkable women and do amazing things, we just need to do the amazing things for ourselves.
love, napxxNAP—I’ve been in my new place over a year. And it is really tough to try and pull the place together without another strong back, another errand runner, another problem solver, another box emptier.
My basement is pretty much the way it landed a year ago. I’ve had to let go my expectations. Things that would have been taken care of instantly still linger on the to mental “to do” list. It’s a really slow process. And I have to pay someone to come and do things now that the SA did before. It’s just not the way things would normally be, and I’m learning to be patient and let things go.
Nap, buy yourself some flowers, put them in something, and give yourself a big hug for making it thus far. This is just the beginning. Good things are ahead. You’ve come so far from that first day in the hotel when we talked briefly. Damn woman, you made it home, through lawyers and realtors etc. etc., AND WHILE IT WAS ALL HAPPENING wrote some of the best material this site has on it!!!
fuck the boxes and buy some flowers.
xoxoDiane,
You made me cry…..thanks for the love and support, I hope you know how special you are….love, napxxooDear NAP and Diane:
NAP I am so awed that you are making this happen for yourself. Even if you feel overwhelmed or its not going as hoped- you are doing it. It gives me hope too. Diane- your words were spot on, and touched my heart as well. How true, we give an SA chance after chance, and then with ourselves, we don’t give the same chance. We are human and imperfect also, and given a most difficult hand to deal with. We get a million chances, and a million more where that comes from. thank you for the reminder. love to you.
Focus on a behavior sounds like such a simple concept, but is not as easy as it sounds.
Behavior must be the whole big picture: work, finances, responsibility, affections, commitment…i am sure I am leaving stuff out because their are many many behaviors.
My SA would appear to have good behavior on one end…he was kind, affectionate, appeared to be good father, gave many compliments, he was around alot, he was there for me in some ways……sounds good right?? But on the flip side he lied, he had to be forced to work, clean and help out, he never did anything without repeated asking; and was like getting a teenager to do an adults work.So behavior is a big picture analysis….all aspects where we maybe being violated or unheard. Boundaries I think is a key concept here. An easy way to start is to figure out where we may be being violated or unheard, where are we over compensating. My SA is boundary less in that there is no end as to what he will take from others, he will use you until he bleeds you dry; he will never do for himself. He encroaches on others would be boundaries and stomps all over them.
Other issues are they disrespectfull, verbally abusive, controlling, works hard but never home….the concept of “behavior” is really huge and a big picture view of the whole world of your SA. Because some behaviors may appear okay even good in the case of my SA, but some others areas may be very poor.
Hi Flora – That is what makes it difficult for me. Steve is all the good things you mention -Never disrespectful, very responsible will do anything for me, etc. I still see some p/a behavior, but that changes if I don’t confront him until after the fact and he can discuss it rationally. I do see some positive changes in regards to the addiction, but I am still not getting why the lieing. I am still seeing that tendancy, and of course that ruins the entire relationship. No Trust – No integrity! He lies over stupid stuff he does – like looking around, or seeing something he should not be seeing. How hard is it to just say, “I own it-I did it.” Then it is complicated by my therapist thinking he is dissociating, at times, I am not buying that because he looks so quickly and then looks away, and then lies about it. I just don’t think an SA would dissociate for a minute or two and then snap out of it. I think him saying he doesn’t remember doing it is a cop out. How can you be looking at someone face to face and not remember doing it???
I have decided to cancel the divorce and go with the legal separation while he is working on this. I agree with JoAnn that the EMDR is not going to be a cure all. Steve is beginning to see he will be an addict forever, and maybe he will just have to live his life avoiding those things that trigger him. I don’t know how he can do that, because everything can trigger him. Grocery stores, malls, mixed meeting including women, TV, movies, pictures, etc. What else is there.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.