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I have the need to vent my frustration. It has nothing to do with the Therapist – he is doing the best he can with what he has to work with.
It is just that we talk about the same thing over and over in hopes of getting through to Steve how important it is to be honest, not be p/a explode in rage, and disclose.
Last night, I finally contronted Steve about the recording of the TV shows. The news was recorded for 31 days straight, and when I went to history it showed each and every program had been “Deleted by Viewer.” Now, who is this strange person we have in this house who would delete a show they supposedly never recorded in the 1st place.
I actually went to History and showed it to Steve. He went into the mode of trying to read the instruction booklet and determine how this could have happened. He couldn’t figure it out, (OF COURSE-GOOD TRY) and we got into an argument with the usual 5 y/o child-like arguing that he spues forth. Even went, “Ya, Ya, Ya, Ya, Ya,
back to me. How condescending.
Today we discussed the matter with the counselor who is totally aware of the situation from me. I am not totally sure, but I think Steve actually did such an “Academy Award” performance that he convinced him he didn’t do it. I will ask him on Monday when I see him by myself. He suggested I put a parental blocker on the TV and see if the recordings continue. I asked him how that would do any good, because all Steve has to do is call the Co. and ask for the PW. What’s accomplished there??? Also said, maybe take the TV out of the house. No Way – that just hurts me.Just want to re-enforce the fact that Steve made his own decision to now watch TV because of the objectifying.
Basically, the Therapist goes over being honest, not withholding sex, work on intimacy, etc. I have a hard time understanding why he doesn’t just tell Steve, as he did me,
that “You are as good as you are going to get.” He has in round about ways, but to me, with my extra assertive personality would confront him more aggressivelty. He did tell him today, “You do want to save your marriage, don’t you?” Of course, as usual, there was a “Yes,” and Steve plays the victim card by saying, “It doesn’t matter how many good days I have-3 steps forwards-1step back, Sharron always takes it back to square 0. I can’t win.”
Of course when an atomic bomb has been detonated over and over for three years, the fallout seems to stick. He will make some progress, and then drops the atomic bomb. Why would I consider it progress. The therapist agreed.
Thanks for listening-got all of that off my chest.
Feel free to chime in with comments – good or bad. I can take it.
I feel S-o-o-o-o much better now. Came home really frustrated. Just another day in the life of living with an SA.Hi Sharron,
You are on a Merry-go-Round with Steve. Aren’t you dizzy yet? He’s like smoke, just as you think you grab on to something it disappears. Your relationship is very much a parent/child and Cop/prisoner. Not very gratifying to say the least. Is it worth it Sharron? I love you!!!Nap
As I understand it, Sharron,
your plan is about staying for a while so that when you divorce, your financial package improves significantly. I can respect that. Does that plan require that you invest so much in these appts and their outcomes? I’m just concerned that you stay sane enough to get out eventually if that’s what you want.
big hug on a hard day,
Diane.Diane-Thanks for the hug. My goal, per therapist, is to try and accept Steve’s addiction and enjoy the “few” good days we have together. Problem is – where do you draw the line, and will I be able to do that? I guess the final deal breaker would be if he quits trying, but according to the therapist, he is still holding on to a part of his addiction. So, who knows?? Very frustrating,espcially because I just don’t think he can get any better tha he is now, and that IS frustrating.
Each year I am with him is another $10,000. Very superficial of me, huh! $30,000. so Far. If I do not divorce and he should precede me in death, (NOT-The bad ones seem to fluorish) I will get his entire estate until I pass, and then to his kids. See how I wrestle with these things. I think the upcoming 70 mark has made mush of my brains.Love you too NAP. Most days it is not worth it, and a few out of the month are good. And ya, I’m dizzy as hell!!!
I do feel better getting it all out today. If we didn’t have S.O.S and all my loving sister’s, what would any of us do?Hi Sharron,
I have DVR, and you can set up a timer to record shows, every day, or once, or only new ones. If they were viewed he viewed them, And if they were deleted he deleted them. It does not happen automicatically, someone has to do it. Or atleast that is how mine works anyway.I believe you and i also believe that they can be incredibly good liars, and i also believe that his therapist is swept away by his lies. Mine was the same calibur of guy and the same situation with his therapist. It was an increcibly difficult time.
Eventually i got to where i did not care what they said, i did what i felt was right. Because it does not much matter what he or his therapist says. You are the one who has to live with him 24/7.
On that note. I found it incredibly difficult to entertain a relationship with someone who was not in recovery or just plain not trustworthy (about the same thing). i could not make my plans on what he did or did not do. I either had to be on the ride or not. Otherwise it will make you eshausted and just spending most of your time debating and dwelling.
You can say for today, i give s 6 months. For those six months i will not monitor or make demands, however you can log each and every thing he does. Also in that time i would keep your distance from him remantically etc. Which i think you said you already had been.
Give him all the rope he needs, to hang himself, or maybe he will be as promised.
However i would not go to the therapist to work on any relationship i am not sure i want to stay in. If you are still in the wait and see, then iw ould wait and see before goin through the incredibly painfull process of dealing with all “this” stuff with a therapist. Because it could all be for nothing.
Thats my two cents.
Love,
FloraP.s. I also thing the therapists demands of what they need us to do…the back to zero etc. really urkes me. If we felt like doing it we would, its their lying that has brought this about. And ya know we may not feel safe with them again.
This i think stems back to the therapists feeling that we know, and we withhold sex or affection to “punish” them. Which i think is enterely wrong.
I never withheld sex to punish, i just plain did not want to have sex with him because i felt used. Two entirely different things.Dear Sharron,
I think you want to remain with Steve- for an entire variety of reasons that you have listed before? Some of them are emotional and some of them are practical and I think all of them have merit. I am wondering if you could consider putting ALL THAT ENERGY that you put into trying to control or catch Steve out into trying to get the kind of help YOU need in order to remain living with him?? What you are doing now feels like the merry go round Nap described. I think it would feel better and more controlled if you just began seeing this therapist (who you like) for yourself? Stop going with Steve, stop trying to work on your marriage and start seeing if you can kill two birds with the one stone. Steve doesn’t seem to be all that onboard with this eliminating the triggers thing and you are so frustrated by what you describe as talking about the same behaviors over and over. 🙁 I know we have had lots of posts about you just giving up and leaving but I don’t think you want that right now so….that means you have to try to find a way to stay with more peace than you currently have. I think you know that all this focus on whether steve taped shows or didn’t is kind of a waste of time because you see even though there are only two of you in the house he can just keep saying he didn’t do it and blah, blah, blah and then the therapy sessions are taken up with a “he said she said” round and round and round and meanwhile Steve keeps saying he wants to save your marriage and acting like he doesn’t want to. He toys with you just enough to keep you crazy but not quite enough to drive you right out the door. And Dear Sharron….you allow him to do this to you.:( I know most of us, despite our best intentions, allow them to push our buttons at one point or another.I think yours are being pushed to the point he could really hurt your mental health. The stress and frustration and anger must be horrendous. I just wonder if you might consider giving this therapist a chance to help you irrespective of what Steve does? Could you disengage from Steve’s treatment and just try to focus on ways to help you meet your own goals even for a month. Because I am afraid you are not going to make it to the financial amount you need at this rate! You don’t have to live every day of your life worrying what or who Steve is objectifying and how many lies he has told this week? You can “let go” with help and have more peace in your days. Please consider testing this therapist out to see if he can help you as he thinks he can. What is the harm in giving it a whirl? You are not going to know where to draw the line and if you can do it if you don’t focus on what YOU can do or handle. Karen xx
sharron i get the worry about money and all that, but this stress has to affect your health sooner latter. what good will the money be if you wont be healthy enough to enjoy it. you say 10000 each year is that a lump sum or does it increase 10000 added to each year alimony. is he worth it are you. i remember when you filed for divorce your pasts changed you seem to have some sort of peace about you. please take care of yourself life is too short. i know we need to do what is best for us, not them.
much love kattSteve is in bed after another failure to disclose something as simple as if there is a picture he has seen in a magazine.
Again, that was his idea, not mine. Nothing risque, but then he can trigger on a triple a or a triple D – basically anything with a skirt. He admitted in the office today he is still lying to me, but when asked to disclose them tonight, it was the same old run around with no clear answers.Thank you all so much for the love, caring, and support you are giving me.
Flora- I just happened to inadvertently see shows deleted from the 24th Dec. to the 28th by accident. I had taped a show and went to delete it. Then, again, accidently, I found there was a history on my TV I didn’t realize it had. I then found 31 shows deleted from Nov. 27th to the present. He denies it adamantly, of course! It either shows deleted by viewer, cancelled by viewer, or cancelled to make room for more entries. I think he must have set it up as a series to record every evening. Who knows how long it has been going on. “Why in the hell would he tape the 5:30 news, he says, “I could care less.” I think because that is the thing he misses the most by not watching TV. Although he mouths good intentions and says he shouldn’t be watching any TV (Also agreed upon by therapist) he just seems to continue to do what he wants and when he wants. Who knows what goes through his fucking head!!
Flora-I think you have a great idea to monitor and journal – obviously the fickle finger of fate catches up with him. My boundary deadline is, and has been, March 28th – my 70th birthday, so that sounds feasible.
kmf – Steve claims he hasn’t had a trigger in 2 mo., which may be true, becuse he is hardly ever out. I run all the errands in an attempt to have a life of my own and just get
away from him. The times I have been out with him, I have not witnessed any triggering, but you know how clever they are. The lying and non disclosure are, to me, a lack of integrity, and I can’t get past it. The TV really shows it, doesn’t it! You are right, the stress, frustration, and anger are horrendous. I promise I will take your advice and just go to therapy by myself – I am basically sick of trying to save a marriage that isn’t salvagable. You are also right about Steve not being on board with recovery – even his therapist agrees he is holding on to part of his addiction. HELLO! I know that as well, so I am going to finally surrender. Continue detached from Steve, seek the therapy by myself, but do as Flora and the therapist say – keep eyes wide open and journal without saying a word to him.
Katt – As I sit here reflecting, tonight, I agree the money is not worth the stress and toll it is taking on my health and psyche. I know I have said this a million times before, but think I am strong enough to carry it out now.
I will keep you all posted after my session by myself on Monday.
I know this is very drawn out, but hearing your ideas and support have really made a difference today and tonight, after another day like most others with Steve.
Love you all for everything you do and say to me. Even this lengthy post helps me get my head straight. I will give you all an update soon. It is 11:30 pm- I am tired and worn out. Going to bed. Hope not too many typos!Doubt, a status between belief and disbelief, involves uncertainty or distrust or lack of sureness of an alleged fact, an action, a motive, or a decision.
sharron if you are waiting for him to confirm your doubt he never will. last week i stopped at the other house to drop off something also to check if he was really working on the house. well i see he went and bought a new cell phone, remember i smashed his other when i found porn a few months ago. anyway i asked if it had Internet on it. he said no. so i let it go. a few days latter i see it again and notice it has a camera and say to him if it has a camera it must have Internet. this time he says when i called it in i did not activate the Internet. i go home and start looking on line to see if what he said could be true. its a pay as you go and i knew what he said did not make sense. yet i look and look finally i realize im trying to believe him i do not want to doubt him i dont want to be right. i want him to trust me. so i went back over and told him no more if he wants to keep his addiction just keep it. he is not worth me being crazy like this. he is just not worth it anymore. i have come to the conclusion that giving doubt to him will be the end of me. i may make mistakes i maybe wrong but i know that he will defend his addiction until the end. it is no longer about love it is no longer about him. he knows he has a addiction and its his alone. i was thinking about your post about money why dont you look at it like a paycheck i did that for many years with my first husband. i cooked, cleaned, did pretty much the maids work and my day was done i left. i was not paid to be his friend, lover, mother he could not afford me.
do not doubt yourself he does not deserve that…………Hi sharron,
I also wanted to add that at this point any boundaries or rules should be being enforced by him. It will be maddening to try to point it all out and argue with him. The list is so you can note all the boundaries he has violated or his recovery plan. At that point you can then reflect on how he is doing, versus what you see. Because at this point he is supposed to be doing this on his own. By himself. You should not have to be in charge of r
Tattling on him, he is responsible for rattling on himself to his therapist.
Do do run the risk of getting in the middle and then being blamed for being controlling.Hi everyone,
I just want to say that I’m following along behind Flora on this one. I think she’s describing the dynamics of the problem and also points of leverage to change the way we participate.
Just want to underline two of her points that resonated deeply in me for all of us, not just Sharron, but including Sharron!
1. Flora wrote: “I believe you and i also believe that they can be incredibly good liars, and i also believe that his therapist is swept away by his lies. Mine was the same calibur of guy and the same situation with his therapist. It was an increcibly difficult time. Eventually i got to where i did not care what they said, i did what i felt was right. Because it does not much matter what he or his therapist says. You are the one who has to live with him 24/7.”
Key line: “Eventually I got to where i did not care what they said, I did what i felt was right.”
To me, this represent that epiphany moment when we start looking after ourselves according to what we know is true, and not the “truth” for the SA. It is our own truth that will protect us, strengthen us, and show us the way. A point of leverage. IMO.2.Flora wrote: “Do do run the risk of getting in the middle and then being blamed for being controlling.”
To me, this is about not being THEIR point of leverage. The more we insert ourselves into the conversation about their behaviour, the more we take responsibility for it whether we realize it or not. We are carrying it around and showing it to the therapist and that puts us in the middle. Make the therapist deal with the SA. Make the SA deal with the therapist. Otherwise we become points of leverage to off-load blame and responsibility.Thank you, Flora, for the privilege of pigging backing your wisdom, and I hope you’re okay with the direction I took it in.
love, D.
Thanks Flora – I turned the boundary thing around on him a long time ago. He professes to want to live by them – basically the same ones I had set, however It is apparent he still has been doing most of them to appease me.
Good point about running the risk of him playing the control card- he is great at it. Has told me he wants me to ask him questions to create trust, but if I do, his angry BPD comes out and he is a total ass.
NO MORE! I get up every morning and tell myself, “I am now in charge – not him. He can go screw himself.” No more questions and no more boundary setting. This sounds kind of sadistic, but I think I will actually enjoy sitting back and watching him fail. He is so arrogant-always thinks he has things under control, and the only reason he is not triggering is primarily because we are in the country and he is not exposed much to the outside world. That will now change. Dealing with his BPD anger is almost as bad as the addiction.
Thanks for the advice.Thank you too, Diane. There is so much wisdom in what you said, as well.I can see now where I have always been Steve’s point of leverage. He loves engaging in an argument and then attempting to make me look like the the bad guy. Called projection.
Thank you.Katt – I told Steve a couple of weeks ago that it is his addiction and his alone-he can deal with it. It has just taken me this time to implement those thoughts and get on board for letting “it” and probably him go.
Sorry your SA is still at it-they always will be. I look back and think how I have wasted 3 yrs. on this moron, and still nothing has changed. WELL, IT”S GONNA NOW.
ThanksHi sharron,
I do not feel there should be no more boundary setting. You should have boundaries, and i beleive you already told him what they were. But when he violates a boundary the consequence should be automatic and go like so – let say a consequence for him watching the news was the tv is gone out of the house (i know this is just an example) – it would go like this – “Steve you were viewing the news the TV is gone from the house, i already drove it to the dump”.No arguing, pointing out his wrongs, pointing out what he is supposed to be doing – that is the difference between your boundaries and his recovery. And as far as his recovery goes, those rules that he and his therpists have are between them.
When i set my boundaries. I wrote them out. I had him initital and sign. I took note monthly of his progress in my mind and on paper; i never once argued or tried to make him do anything. He was aware of my boundaries and my requests and the are purely his choice if he does them or not. I had no intention of being mommy or gate keeper. I made a request or made a casual reminder….you said you would do x. And no more.
At the end of my little experiment i had the info that i needed. And it brought much peace for me to decide what i needed to do.
I hope this makes sense.
Love,
FloraAnd you must have boundaries with these guys, a relationship with an addict, is a must. The difference is in how you go about enfording them and using them.
For example. Long ago my i caught the SA was viewing porn at home on the computer while caring for our 2 yo.
Consequence – i locked the computer, he had to use the computer at the library and our daughter went to daycare. I did not argue about the circumstance or that it was a violation or whether he meant to do it, or if there was a computer glitch. It just was.
Hi Sharron,
I finally have a little time to read through all the posts I have missed during my weeks of packing and getting ready for the vacation.
You have discussed boundaries, but have not gone into any detail as to what they are.
Could you give us an idea of what your boundaries are for yourself and what you will or will not accept in your life with Steve so we can understand it a little better and maybe help you with the questions you ask?
I guess I am confused about the whole TV thing. Is this a boundary or a rule?
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