Guilt?

Great post Heidi.

Bev
The tears flow when I read Ur post. The pain u feel, it’s all our pain. That somehow when our sah are embarrassing recovery we feel this enormous guilt for not moving forward, for not forgiving, and we feel the guilt so very deeply when we look into our children’s faces knowing that we will be the ones who make the decision to end the marriage.
I cannot tell you how many days I prayed my sah would screw up so I would feel justified in kicking his ass out of the house. I needed to have that one last peice of evidence that he was not able to sustain recovery and that I was right for not being willing to let down my defenses and walls, I was not willing to risk being hurt and made a fool of again.

I think two things.
1.). We need space, time and they need consequences to their actions. They need to feel badly. The kids need to know he has a problem and we need to heal away from them
2.). That the only way to salvage a marriage is to understand they will never be who we want them to be. This does not mean they can never have feelings. They can never live or they can never be sober. But they can never be who we thought they were before we found out.

So the break I feel is a necessity in determining whether u can start again. Building a new foundation for a relationship with honesty and commitment
Without letting go of what we thought we had. Without making a real break, I’d even say divorcing. You can’t build a new relationship. At least I cannot.
My sah can never be sorry enough for what he’s done. And he can only be sorry to a point bc there is so much history and hurts between us.
My therapist shared her experience w her sah when she was able to accept the fate of their marriage.
She said I had to accept that he may stay in recovery. That he may be able to become human and intimate w another, but that that person would never be her.
That rang so true for me
Anyway, I am here bc of the kids and finances only. However in those moments where I feel he is not trying and not working hard enough for me, I suddenly begin thinking I’m making some mistake by wanting a divorce. Lets all say it together. Abandonment issues. Our foundation is destroyed and I can’t rebuild it.
I can get no real clarity until he is out of my house. He needs the consequences and I need him away from me. And if I make a mistake in my decision I will adjust course at some point in the future.
I love you bev
I cry for you and with you
The decision you make is not yours. He caused it. Do not ever lose sight of that.
They will never understand the pain they’ve caused. Never. They are broken fragile men. We need them to be strong during our time of need. And they are incapable. Thy are incapable of being who we want them to be.

annabegins, that was a great post. It says it all. xoxo

Bev, I am new here but I’ve been “in recovery” for a little over 2-years now. I am still utterly clueless. I am utterly clueless even though I am a psychologist! (Some day I will write about what was going on in my professional life at the time I made my aweful discovery. It is the mark of being rediculously clueless.) There are several things after that I decided to do that made a difference, each made small dents in the pain. Two of them came to my mind when I read all of these amazing posts.

First, do you have a couples counselor? Whether you stay together or ultimately divorce, a couples counselor can pave the road for a smoother journey. Our couples counselor called us both on our BS ans helped me to tell the difference between times when my SA was being sincere and times when he was not even trying to connect with the consequences of what he did. My only two regrets were (1) I initially resisted couples counseling, so one year passed before we got any of the help we needed together (e.g., a safe place for me to express my pain and a neutral person there who could help my SA to understand what I was going through — and the same for him, which increased my understanding), and (2) we did not look for someone with specific training in SA. Otherwise, couples counseling was one of the best decisions we ever made.

If you don’t already have one, look for a couples counselor who specializes in SA, sexual abuse, or PTSD. Our couples counselor is very good, and we would not switch now because we have a good rapport with her, but she does not always do what I would want her to do, or she does not automatically understand the dynamic because she does not have that specialized training.

Second, my individual psychologist sent me to a 12-week “DBT Class.” (Dialectical Behavioral Therapy) At first I was really mad at my counselor for recommending DBT for me!!!! My thought was, “He’s the one who is crazy! He’s the one who needs DBT class!!!!” Nonetheless, I did go to DBT classes. The other women in the class were hurting very much and their psychological problems were (in some ways) more severe than mine. In the end though, through their experiences and mine (including my reactions to them) I learned so much!!!! I now have skills I can use. I have concrete “do this now” skills I can use to get through the day. I even have an emergency kit at my bedside! It is not a cure-all, but I strongly recommend DBT to anyone and everyone who is hurting. Just ask a psychiatrist or psychologist in the area to recommend a good DBT facilitator (My class was facillitated by an R.N. who was a certified DBT counselor . . . And she was so good!!!) I regained some of my ability to “keep my witts about me” in DBT class.

No matter what you do, I hope you find peace. We all deserve peace in our lives and freedom from this horrific chaos!

Therapy only works if both sides are working on healing. My co-parenting therapist, who just found out about his continuing addicting, says all I should do now is keep him informed via the internet. His addiction is interfering in everything.

If the SA are not committed to recovery (or is faking recovery), couples’ therapy of any kind is a waste, and they will use it to manipulate you and learn to lie better. I’ve confirmed that with 4 therapists now including 2 CSATS that I trust.

bev, what are the dates in november?

I think the reason I shy away from couples counseling is because his narcissism is still in the way, even though it’s been a year of him not porking/porning, to the best of my knowledge. It just gives me the shudders to imagine sitting with him talking to a counselor right now. I picture him charming the pants off the counselor with his earnest puppy-dog eyes. He’s been pushing couples counseling forever, and he says it’s because he wants help in showing me that he loves me. But I don’t really know what the hell that’s supposed to mean. I know the phrase ’embracing humility’ is a little nebulous, but he’s not there yet, though he does have times when he shows signs of understanding what that means. But for someone who’s been into Zen Buddhism for years, his big old defensive ego is still alive and kicking way too often. He’s got more self-awareness now, I’ll grant him that, but I just don’t feel safe enough yet to sit with him on a therapist’s couch. Maybe I never will.

ISH Beverly Hills is not all that far away from me. I would like to hear more about this thing you are going to.

On another note Bev, your post about how the books just don’t cover things like the first time you have sex with them after recovering from one of their episodes, or feeling compared to (insert pros name here), is so true.

I really hope you are able to get through the holidays keeping things status quo.

Hugs, Gabby

I agree with Debinca (including the fact that ours don’t seem to be popular opinions). Couples (affair recovery) is a must and yes… only if you are SURE recovery is being done. I have seen in the books the triggers that happen in certain everyday situations and the best ways to try to handle it when it does. I do believe that in order for us to heal, recover and succeed when we choose to remain in the relationship takes work on both our parts. I realize (tho I fought it tooth and nail at first) that while I did not cause the problem… I am not the SA… and he continued to re-traumatize me over and over again…. some and I mean some of the fault does lie on me for some of the actions that I have participated in. That is not to say that I am wrong for having normal reactions to traumatic events… I just want to say that I realize that I have healing to do as well. I do believe that the addict can change… if I didn’t then I would fall into that same category (being a former drug addict) and I just simply don’t buy it. What I believe is that he can do all the healing and recovery, etc… he could be 100% sober for the rest of his life…. but if I don’t do the healing and recovery that I need to do, then it will all be for not. And, whether we choose to stay or to leave.. if we do not heal, our kids will still suffer. And I believe that if I do not heal and stay angry with him all the time and can never find it within myself to truley, truley forgive (not forget… forgive) then I am no better than he is or was.

“And I believe that if I do not heal and stay angry with him all the time and can never find it within myself to truley, truley forgive (not forget… forgive) then I am no better than he is or was.”

I don’t understand this. I don’t understand how choosing not to forgive him makes me as bad as he is? I thought choosing who I forgive or don’t was my personal choice (sometimes based on the actions of my transgressor) I didn’t think it was a reflection of my character? Karen xx

I never once said that any of you should forget what your transgressors have done and in some cases are still doing. In fact I specifically said that forgiveness does not mean forgetting (as you can see in the quoting of that sentiment from my post in Karen’s subsequent post). Forgiveness is not for the SA (transgressor) it is for yourself. It is the only true way to heal, recover, move on and find happiness whether or not that person remains in your life. And for anyone who is still confused by the meaning of forgiveness I strongly implore you to watch the movie “Fireproof” and the Lifetime Original Movie, “Amish Grace”.
And as an added note, but in no way less important point as the one above… I am really getting jaded by the fact that almost every time I voice my personal opinions, feelings, beliefs, etc… as I relate them in MY life I receive so many posts/comments where people are taking them as personal affronts against them as to what I said and persecuting me as a result of said opinions, feelings and beliefs. Yet so many other posts, ones that are angry, negative and depressing are praised and glorified! It is really not feeling much like a ‘sisterhood of support’ to me.