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I do love this guy but it has been many years of this and I have been to crazyland and back. Did I ever tell you guys that I once had a conversation on the phone with one of his stripper friends (20 years ago). She threw it in my face that she had icecream with him and my daughter who was what 1 1/2 years old. I felt the blood drain out of my face..and told her that if she ever went near my kid again I would put a gun to her head and pull the trigger. I still think about that how crazed I was. Yes I am scared. I hate to be alone. I don’t know why. I am laughing at myself as I say that. He will not get help ladies.
Then fuck him, Kat, and help yourself. Any man that would take his baby with him to hang out with a whore is beyond help. Period.
He took your daughter for ice cream with a stripper friend? OK, I have to say, that is really messed up. And that was 20 years ago, so he has had 20 years to get even more messed up.
I’m really sorry that you love this guy. He’s reeled you in and now he can do what he wants and you will still come to back to “I love him”. Been there done that too.
In your post at the top of this page I think you hit the nail on the head. Neither you nor your children will ever be more important to him than what his penis wants. So, does this guy have any capacity to receive your love and value it and return it, or does he just use it?
hard questions, I know, and I realize I’m getting fed up with what we will endure. Maybe I’m out of sync now—to far gone down the path of what’s real, and too little tolerance for the denigration of hope when basic human decency in a marriage that lasts 5 days is considered an exceptional offering and a cause for hope. Who are we kidding?
Kat,
I say this with love. You are likely a co-dependent. I know because I am one, too. We don’t get out of the way when they treat us like shit. You might benefit from a CODA or COSA meeting. (do they have those where you live? – you can look it up on the web). There is also a great book called “Co-dependent no more” by Mellody Beattie.
Or – you could be so traumatized that you can’t get out of the way. But the fact that this has been going on for so many years – you would benefit from a COSA or CODA meeting (if it’s a good one).
You would also benefit from going to someone who understands this stuff (likely a CSAT). Where do you live?
I hate to see you walked all over, gas lit, etc. I say this because I was in your shoes a year ago. It caused further trauma for me and I hate to see the same thing for you.
I didn’t kick my husband out of the bedroom and instead, used to go downstairs on the sofa, read SOS, any SA book I could get my hands on (I have a whole library), Mellody Beattie, and wanted to get in the car and drive across the country. Sometimes I used to go to the 24 hour grocery store at 2am just to get out of the house. I didn’t want to kick him out of the bedroom because I thought the kids would get upset (he had just been on a binge and lived out of the house a few nights a week which upset them terribly), and also, I was afraid he would bail (imagine that?), or rage. I went to a Minwalla intensive at ISH for partners and when I went home after 5 days, I hyperventilated and cried on the way home from the airport as I didn’t want to go home to him. But I did – and I suffered. He was in the middle of denial, minimization, rationalization and gaslighting. I learned all about it at ISH so at least I knew what he was doing….but I put myself in the line of fire. Please try to get yourself out of it – and take care of yourself. He may figure it out on his own but he won’t as long as you are there to hug him and listen to his drivel. He is sick and protecting his addiction.
You can do it!!!
Oh – and one addition to Bev’s advice about barracading the bedroom – tell him if he doesn’t get serious help (e.g. with a CSAT and 12 step SA groups), then you are changing the locks. Outline YOUR requirements to feel safe and at peace.
Deb
One more thing Kat, Lili is a coach/counselor at PoSARC. She really helped me when I was totally F`d up ( as opposed to partially F`d up now). It might help….
All is quiet. No fights. Very little conversation. I was told I was Codependant 20 plus years ago. I believe I read that book. One of my cats Rosie is having surgery today. I have 9 cats. I am a rescuer of strays and ferals. I am sure this comes as no surprise to any of you. Anyways she is special to me so I am less concerned about him today. The H however put his head in my lap last night. I just sat there which is a change for me as normally I would snuggle back. If I haven’t said it THANK YOU to everyone for being here for me.
Thank You!! She is home doing well. I am okay…The H and I had a conversation a long one. It was better than usual but I know all of this crap will probaly happen again. But I was happy the tension and anger had subsided. He made no promises. He never does. March what is Blech? Sorry I am not up on all the lingo and code yet…I hope that you are all well and finding serenity today.
Kat, he won`t “probably” do it again. He WILL. Yes, you are co dependent. That does not mean you deserve crap the rest of your life. People have committed worse sins than codependency. You are not allowed to use codependency as your crutch any more.
The tension did not “subside”. He talked you out of being rightfully angry. I don`t care how co dependent you are or if you want to be a crazy cat lady, or if you think his crap is ok because you all have a high sex drive or you two are some special sexual super heroes….You are not any of those to the point of allowing your life to be ruined by a guy wacking off to porn!!!!
Show the SOB the door. Tell him the ride is over and he can watch gay porn til the cows come home but NOT IN YOUR HOME.
Sorry, I like you and I think he has convinced you that you aren`t likable and valuable. You are. I am really glad your kitty is ok.
“blech” means “yuk”. As in,” I wouldn`t let his head near my lap !!”
Kat,
The “I only did it because I knew you were looking argument”
Let me tell you about my experience with that type argument. NOT that it will make it make sense, just that this is how they turn things around on us.
About a week after discovery I was downstairs making breakfast and I needed to call my husband’s new counselor to verify an appointment later that day. My husband said “the number is on my phone, I left it beside the bed” so I went upstairs, picked up the phone and what’s on it? Match.com! So I pitched the phone at STBXSAH and told him he was wasting all our time going to counselors while he’s on Match.com. He denied having ever been on there, said he hadn’t touched the phone after the counselors call, it was a pop-up. I didn’t believe it but couldn’t prove otherwise.
Two weeks later, can’t remember why, Match.com was on the computer downstairs when I opened it one morning. I showed it to STBXSAH, he said, “Yes, I looked, because you said you had a profile on there once and I wanted to see if it was still open.” No, I had told him it was down for at LEAST 3 years. Not buying it. He swore he’d never been there, ever, to look for anyone or anything but me just that once.
And then at my SECOND disclosure it comes out that STBXSAH has indeed met and had one night stands with four Match.com women. Two were whores. Hhmmmm.
Then at the THIRD disclosure, he not only went there to look and then met women to have paid or NSA sex, from there; he’s got an ACTIVE profile on there all through our marriage, still does after all these counseling sessions. It’s been active within the last 24hrs and he’s listed as divorced. I posted the profile on here, it’s disgustingly sappy about his “gentlemanly” habits and adventurous eating. His answer to that “of course it says it’s been active in the last 24 hrs, you pulled it up just now. You need to let this be in the past, that is over.”
And now, after he’s been gone for six months, I know that he had 3 profiles on Match.com with different names and profiles, and they were also on 7 other dating, guaranteed affair, and sex NSA (no strings attached) hookup sites and were not removed when we were married. He’s still using them, I got a few “bleedthrough” responses from his floozies by accident on my phone, and my computer because of spyware he installed to watch MY COMPUTER USE, while he’s supposed to be in treatment in a psychaitric clinic in TX.
Do you see what I mean? It was always going on. And he just found more and better ways to make it about me. Just a smokescreen/gaslighting. Don’t buy that it’s about you. It’s about his dick. You might have to be addressed if you’re in the way, but that’s where they’re focused.
Bev, There isn’t anyone who could convince me that I am not likable or valued as a human being. I am grateful for the person that I am. I love it that I have saved and helped so many abused neglected animals, it makes me feel good. I am proud of that my heart goes out to all animals that are suffering and that I have tried to make a difference in this fucked up world. I am not a crazy cat lady.Although I do like animals more than I do people. I am proud of the fact that I have been a loving supportive ear to many elderly people where I work even though it is not my job to do that. I am a bookkeeper. I am proud of all the work I have done in counseling over the years to heal the wounds and damage that people have done to me and the things I’ve done to myself. I like the fact that I can’t sit here and not feel sorry for myself. I love that I can reach out to others and tell them my story I am not afraid. I love that I make people laugh. I am attractive and smart. I am nobodys Sexual Super Hero well..except my own. Bev, It is not about my lack of self esteem…I also love that I am going to say this…March wtf???
Good for you Kat!! Now you sound like the woman I thought you were. I love it.
Now, take that anger and honesty and let it keep you safe. I love you and I am proud of you.
BTW, I love animals and have 3 rescue animals of my own. I do not think you are a crazy cat lady. I was trying to piss you off.
Bravo Bev, Lynn, and Kat….
We all don’t deserve this. Rescue cats don’t deserve it and neither do we.
Speaking of which, let me share a cat story. I was with my first husband for two years. He was physically abusive but I kept making excuses for him…..I must have done something to annoy him, he had a bad childhood, he’ll get better, the black eye is because I walked into the door, etc, etc. but I mostly blocked out the incidents (don’t even remember them to this day). We got a kitten (I’m a big cat lover) and I walked in one day and he was terrifying the kitten (it was crouched under a piece of furniture). Something in my head clicked…..this kitten doesn’t deserve this and you know what? Neither do I. My friends moved me out that weekend and I never looked back.
Deb
I had the same blech response to his head in your lap, Katmandew. Sounds like you are a helper and society needs helpers. But, 20 years + helping a SA get well?
To me the word Blech was not helpful and had no value to the words I had written. Just like “He’s so fucking gay”. I know I can’t make him get well he has to do it for himself. All I can do is try to make myself well. I do that for myself by joining groups like this and reaching out. I go to counseling and I read whatever I can on the subject. But I am obviously not leaving him. That’s not to say that I will never leave. It has been 20 plus years but there have been long periods of time in between when he was not acting out. We have a long history, lots of great moments and some bad.
Dear Kat,
I figure there are 2 types of these dudes. The right in your face, nasty, loud types and the nice guy, wouldn’t hurt a flea types. The latter are more dangerous because they nice you to death, while they are abusing you? No matter what their approach, they all have the same motive…to maintain the status quo? You goal is to have something change, because you are hurt by the way things are. His goal is to have everything remain exactly the same. He knows he is hurting you, but he is more concerned with getting what he wants than he is concerned with your feelings.His hugs and apologies are meant to keep EVERYTHING the same, calm things down, get you where he wants you to be. Thats why he doesn’t promise any change…because he isn’t going to engage in any.He learned a LONG, LONG time ago that you were afraid of being alone so here is the unspoken deal from your best buddy. You either put up with anything he wants you to put up with OR he will threaten to leave the relationship. Now he hasn’t come right out and said that but you have gotten the message loud and clear and he knows it. Where does that leave you Kat? Well, you have a couple of choices and they are all difficult. You can change the status quo while living with him by simply withdrawing yourself from him compleletly, refusing to discuss the crazy stuff he wants to gaslight you with, refusing sex, refusing companionship, refusing support ect. When he tries to engage you, you can simply say that you are considering your options because he refuses to address what has become too big a problem to you to ignore anymore. OR (and emotionally easier) you can have his things waiting on the doorstep and a place arranaged for him to go stay (if you can do that) and you leave a note saying you are not interested in talking to him UNTIL he agrees to accept that he is hurting you and you need to know what he is going to do about it, other than saying it is no big deal. Any other activity you pursue with him will get you NOWHERE. Oh you can have big talks and he will pretend to listen and hug you and have sex with you BUT as soon as your back is turned he will be back at it and probably more devious about hiding it. He may white knuckle it for awhile until things calm down but he will eventually return to it. You have to be really clear on the fact that he does not want to give this up. He doesn’t care enough that you are hurting to stop it…as he has indicated? YOU are the only one who can force a change here Kat. Only YOU. In order to do that you have to be prepared for the fact he may leave you if you do not continue to accept his sexual activity. It is a poor situation but it is what it is. Either you go on as you are and put up with his stuff or you say no more and mean it and develop consequences for him. The absolute best consequence is to not allow him to live with you. It may seem that your situation is much more complicated than that, but it really isn’t. Either you are going to acccept this as your life or you are not. If your choice is the latter then you are going to have to rock the boat. Funnily enough, with these guys you rock by becoming very quiet, very calm and very unavailable. They don’t get to draw you into big fights where they turn things around on you. You make your position such that you are only interested in discussing 1 thing….and that thing is how he is going to prevent hurting you. He will try every tactic in his toolkit to divert you away from that topic by either having sex with you, screaming at you, ignoring you or continually trying to make everything go back to normal. You will want things to go back to normal too in order to ease the tension but you have to stand firm. If you digress from your goal he will soon have you right where he wants you. They say insanity is doing the exact same thing and expecting a different result? You have to do something different Kat. You cannot force him to change but you can change how you respond to him.You have described have many good qualities in yourself. Don’t give those qualities away to someone who is not appreciating them? Make him earn the right to be in your company. Teach him that in order to have you, he has to stop hurting you and respect your feelings. If you do this…you will soon find out where his real priorities lay. He will either choose you or he will choose himself. With these guys…it really is just that simple. Karen xx
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