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I’m sorry to be the ‘Mean Girl” but you will never sleep again if you keep thinking about him and all the shit he did and trying to argue your point to him and make him “get it”.
Cut up, burn, trash everything you want. No problem. It won’t help and it won’t get through to him. If it makes you happy for a moment then get rid of all of it. Just don’t think he really cares.
I really need to clarify my other post, it will get better if he’s gone. As the static of their abuse clears, and you see the reality, it gets MUCH better, and when they are officially OUT, it’s a different world.
Dear Patsy,
I am going to take a bit of a different view point here than many of the sisters and say this. Many women show up here wanting help. We usually think they want help t get out of or understand their situation. That isn’t always the case. Sometimes they want help to remain in their situation and they really just want us to help to make it hurt less while they stay. We really cannot provide that advice, because it really isn’t possible. As long as you are caught up in the drama of discovery and reacting to it….there isn’t much that any of us can say that will help. I think that is where you are at Patsy. You are completely out there, involved in some sick dance with your husband, that you do not want to cut short. I’m going to venture, that it is very unlikely, he is following you around your small apt ,regaling you with details of what he did, what he thought and who he is. I think it is much more likely that you are following him around, asking and dragging explanations out of him, about his sexual activities and why he prefers her to you? That is all well and good and is often part of this horrendous process, BUT while you are in it, no amount of advice to “just get away” will reach your ears. You don’t really want help, you want to vent and that is fair enough. We don’t know your entire story so it is hard to comment BUT one thing that is clear to me, is your husband has Yellow Fever. I have never actually met a man who came back from that sexually. Some stayed with their wives but spent the rest of their marriages making excuses for why they couldn’t f–k their own wives. Many of their wives never knew what happened to change things ,but I did. The answer is simple. They gorged themselves on young flesh and eventually they could no longer become aroused for their older, Causcasian wives. Your husband has told you who he is and what he wants. No amount of help will change his sexual preference. Sadly, he was telling the truth when he described how he felt about her body and yours and what he says now is simply more lies. He must need you for something…either as a front for his new job or to hide his other activities behind. I listen to you say all the things he has done and then I listen to all the excuses you have for why you need to remain there with him? You are seeking more work in China and he is seeking more work in China. How is YOU working there or HIM working there going to fix anything? Some of the other ladies here do not understand where you are, BUT I do. YOU HAVE TO GET OUT OF THERE. You do not stand a rat’s chance in Hell if you stay. It is unlikely he stands any chance or even wants to stand any chance. He currently needs something from you- a front, a reference…I don’t know. You say you cannot go to your mother because she would emotionally abuse you and then you describe your life with him. Your mother could not possibly be worse and you also have siblings. At this point, ANYONE you would turn to would be an improvement. You can use all the excuses in the world for why you need to stay there, but none of them will wash with me. I KNOW that world. If you refuse to leave, it will eat you up and there is NOTHING any of us will be able to do to save you. Sadly, Karen
Yes Karen, you are right when you say thst you don’t know the back story, but I can tell you that I just found out one month go that he did anything besides have a six month affair, and fantasized about a bunch of inappropriate stuff. I have since been told one awful thing after another, including this week. NO I am not ready to jump on a plane today, given that we both got fired thanks to his actng out. We have very little money, and I mean very little!!!! If I had a small savings, I might have the strength to say goodbye to the man I truly believed was the love of my life, but even if I did, It might take a little longer and a few counseling sessions to deal with it.
once my consulting is off the ground–we are in the middle of a big possible client, I can do my part from home (the U.S.), but I am not an idiot so I don’t intend to be cut out this week by leaving prematurely after all the work I have done and given the seriously bad job situation in the U.S. for unemployed 50 year old women.No, I wish this was all a nightmare from which I will wake up, but you really don’t have any reason to say what you did. I am WELL aware that some of these guys have yellow fever. He may be one of them. I came to this website to try to find answers, get some hope, stop feeling alone and maybe even get enough strength to try to live new life. That may well mean I must leave as soon as I reasonably can. But I really don’t think you should make so many assumptions about me as you do not know me, nor what I have already lived through with my FOO or anything else.
I finally got brave enough to separate in-house, which was very hard, but I did it. I am severely disabled, and not young, but must work for many more years in order to survive in any level of comfort. I now don’t feel that I can even turn to this sisterhood for help to get stronger, if this kind of harsh and UNTRUE judgment can just be thrown at me when I am feeling so fucking fucked up and weak. the oher posts got me through the night, and helped me from letting him back into my room when he knocked and begged. I stayed silent until he gave up. For me, that was a victory; that helped me get stronger in my resolve to maintain as much distance as possible. But what you said just makes me feel alone all over again. I am sure you are generally a nice person, but I don’t think this was OK to write to someone you don’t even know, who is obviously struggling to save my own fucking life here. Now I am just crying and so sad that I can’t even get gentleness and kidness here. If I weren’t going to the doctor, forcing an in-house separation, coming to terms with the truth of this horrible situation, then giving me a nudge might make sense, but not the first fucking night I demanded an in-house separation. And by the way, HE chases me around the house trying to tell me this and that about is recovery. I told him 2 days ago to stop it and tell his sponsor–who, unfortunately fir me is out of pocket fir 15 days–so I told hi to go see his one friend here in SAA rather than dump his shit on me. So please stoop assuming what you don’t know.
And BTW, last time I checked, several sisters are still living with their husbands. I likely will leave at some time in the relatively near future, but I am NOT an idiot, and won’t go until I can be all right. I thought this was a support group for women in all stages of this horrible experience, nd that our decisions would sill be respected. I haven’t written much about myself until last night because I am SHY and it is hard for me to admit what a stupid fool I have been, let alone trust other people I don’t know yet.
Breathe just be calm and breathe…..
When this shit storm hits, it is impossible to function in any rational manner. It’s okay and most of the time Karen is the very one telling the rest of us to cut somebody some slack. She said the truth to you and it very hard to hear.
I am usually sort of mouthy, but I see you are in plain old shock and just trying to survive. That’s okay and Karen will be the first to tell you it’s okay.
You got angry and that is good. Anger means you have fire and strength left.
We are here to support you. We are worried that you are in bad circumstances and we all want to help you out. Do what you can to help yourself right now.
No one thinks you are an idiot. Hell, I am still with my H and he has cheated on me over 20 years. How idiotic is that? I found out a year and 2 months ago and I am still crazy 🙂
We are all pulling for you. You vent and share all you want but don’t forget or dismiss Karen’s post. She was NOT calling you out. She hurts for every new sister on this site just as we all do.
You are going to be fine but it will take some time…
Actually, she said that this web site could not help me because I don’t really ant help. She said “I am in some sick dance with my husband” and that this is the wrong web site for me because I don’t really want help, and that there is nothing you sisters can do given that I prefer to stay sick. Please read the unkind–and UNTRUE crap she wrote. I think perhaps SHE is feeling these ways and is assigning feelings attitudes and intentions to me that I don’t have. I have taken much solace and advice from all of you, but I was stunned and hurt by her completely unfounded assumptions just when I needed a little love. oh well.
And maybe we need to call people out when they are being cruel and unsupportive of new sisters who are just trying to find their way through this horrifying situation.
Patsy,
I know Karen would never intentionally hurt anyone, and I am confident that things will work out. She can be a little tough love, but she also has great wisdom.We are all concerned about you, Patsy. You are hurting, isolated, and alone and feeling very vulnerable for a whole lot of reasons.
We are all in “some sick dance” with our husbands. In some way we all are.
I just want you to use that anger and focus it where it belongs. Maybe Karen said things that were not helpful to you. We have all done that and none of us mean anything mean by our words. Karen has been there and done that …I do not want to speak for her because she is capable of speaking for herself but I know for a fact that she was not trying to hurt you.
None of this is easy or pretty and I have been guilty of harsh words. Several sisters called me out at the beginning and although I was upset, I knew they just told me a truth I did not want to hear. Maybe that is not the case with you but it’s happened to all of us.
Keep with us. It gets better.
Dear Patsy,
It is very clear that your situation is unbearable and that you are suffering. I think we all relate to the pain and anguish you are experiencing now. I am very sorry for these experiences, for the words and messages this man delivers to you under the guise of communication and help-seeking. It is absolutely despicable.
Change is such a difficult step. This trauma blinds us, paralyzes us with pain. It is as if every bone in your body is shattered and the only way to heal is to run a marathon.
One of the reasons we come here, I think, is to have others look at and observe us and give us their learned impressions – learned because they’ve been or are where you are.
Hearing how others observe us is not always easy. They can see what we can’t and sometimes they see what we’d rather not see, and sometimes they form impressions that are not exactly precise.
When I read Karen’s message to you I marveled at her courage to write what she saw. You had the courage to open up and show yourself and Karen had the courage to step up and write what she saw.
She may not have seen all of you, but please consider what she is saying. In my experience on this forum, Karen is always wise and loving and concerned. I rely on her wisdom, as I do on that of all sisters here.
You don’t have to agree with Karen, but consider that perhaps this is how an outsider might see you. A sister here is safe! Another observer might not be.
You remark that what she says is “UNTRUE”, but I can say that what she wrote was out of deep concern for you. It takes courage to come out with our thoughts and ideas, to take the time and effort to communicate. I believe Karen has done this with the best of intentions, and she has put out effort and energy on your behalf, with care.
Of course you are the only one who can respond to her views, which you did. What I offer is my opinion of what I observe. I hope it can be helpful.
And once again I really truly am sorry for how dreadful life is for you now. My heart goes out to you. Sending you comfort and hugs,Boy, aint that the truth about the sick dance, Bev. I know dr. evil keeps me in it no matter how hard I try to get out.
I also did the wanting to break things thing on one discovery. I am too cheap to actually break anything, so instead I threw his clothes in the tub and filled it with water. Our marriage counselor called me out on that one. And she was right- I needed to stop reacting to him. It’s an understandable reaction, but when I calmed down, it didn’t really change anything and I just felt bad about myself. It also took the focus off of the crap he did and put it on my reaction.
It’s all a sick dance in some way. I had a whole “ceremony” and burnt my entire wedding album picture by picture. I threatened ( and I meant it) to drive his truck, that he used to get bar skanks to give him BJ’s in, through the fence and into the pool …I meant it. He sold it.
It’s all a sick dance but I do not apologize or regret one sick thing I did in my deepest, darkest, thought I was going to die time….
I sort of wish I had driven the truck into the pool…That’s just me though. Most people would be horrified by that…
I know that Karen is probably a very thoughtful and nice person. It doesn’t mean that what she wrote to me was all right. I also understand that she has probably helped al of you at some time or another. If I decide that this is a safe place for me-and right now I am very unsure–she will likely someday offer me wisdom I will need. I am also sure that I will offer wisdom some of you may need, such as right now. it is not helpful to tell people that this web site is likely not for them because all they want is to get help to “stay in the situation,” and get some sort of relief from the day to f]day anguish. I made it perfectly clear that I am doing my level best to get out from under a particularly savvy and intelligent narcissist. I do NOT need Karen “observing” my behavior right now. I need love and support and someone to help me laugh at all the expensive as cologne that went down the drain–the only light moment this week. If I still come to this sight in a year and a half saying the same things ans whining about bad treatment, THEN Karen canb feel free to make all those judgments. I am NOT her or any of you. Like each f us, I am unique, though we share many of the same horrid experiences, and sometimes react in similar ways. I wanted someone (thank you Claire) to recognize how difficult it was to do an in house separation and help me feel good aboutn myself that I was brave, not that I don’t belong on a site where people are trying to get better, not stay sick. Also,I DON’T have the MONEY for an attorney!!!!!! Plus one month in, I am not sure what I want to do. I need counseling, which I am getting next week to start with, and I really don’t understand the attitude any of you have about this. I am a new sister. maybe you should hear my voice on this, and be a little more careful and thoughtful. Maybe you should reach back into your memories and see how it would feel to you if your only lifeline back when Dday was a few weeks in the past, and you still had no idea how to try to deal with it, but were already taking EVERYONE’s advice, while they basically said you were too into staying sick to participate. I cannot get an attorney this week. I cannot fly home tomorrow. I have a one entry visa and business I must conclude. That is real life, sisters.
Patsy,
Your h is a sadistic man and I’m so sorry hes been hurting you. I really like the idea of you starting a plan and taking advantage of his ‘fake caring’ to get your ducks in a row. You are wise to do so. I can feel the trauma and the pain in your post to have your h say such hurtful things to you and especially about your body. Soooo ruthless and as far as I’m concerned his ‘Chinese cunt’ can have him.This is all relatively new and your emotions are very raw right now as anyone of us would be at this point. Karens post is her opinion and that’s all any of our posts are. We just can’t forget the really raw pain someone feels when it’s so new. It’s an open gapping wound and it needs TLC.
Love, Nap
Hi,
I hear your anguish, your pain, and I remember being there so clearly. I hope you stick around here with us, you need support and lots of understanding and love right now.
I spent a year in shock, yes, I lost a year of my life to shock.
I want you to try to keep your distance from him and being in different rooms is a good start.
His words slice you to the core when he compares you to another woman. So VERY hurtful!!! I am so sorry….
You are doing the best you can for right now, I agree with the meds, for a time.
Divorce can be followed through later, for now, I wish I could help you with the PTSD you must be dealing with, the persistent recurrent thoughts, the images cycling over and over. Yes, you need help and a good counselor.
Please know, his cheating has nothing to do with you…REALLY….I know even that is hard to hear 🙁 some day you will understand and believe that his cheating has nothing to do with you and everything to do with his childhood, his issues and his broken moral compass.
This is going to be a long recovery for you, and you will recover, I know it does not feel like it right now, but his behavior does not define you and you can and will get through this.xoxox
Hi Patsy – please don’t give up on us here – even if all you do is observe for a while. It took me 2 years to find this site and like you – I lived in separation in the same house with my husband for many years without the benefit of support and I am not sure that I could have heard someone telling me what I needed to do to get out – I just could not do it at that point for many reasons, fiancial, emotional, logistical, etc. And I do not regret that decision because it kept me in a situation where I had influence over my children – which would have been lost had we divorced. No one’s story is like any one else’s like everyone here has said, Karen is sharing her wisdom and experience – your pain and story is private to you. Your circumstances unique and will change as you can change them and can sustain them. Many outsiders looking at me – even now since I have separated, would tell me that they don’t understand why I am not divorced – I don’t need them to understand and you will get to a point where you will know how and when to make each end every move – and for this week chucking out his cologne is the power move you could make – there’s a lot to be said for throwing someone’s stink down the drain – more power to you – we won’t abandon you – and the courage it took both you and Karen to speak your minds is a good thing – my hear tnad love go out to you – in Kindness Meg –
it would be really a kindness if any of you could try to understand what I am saying about the new sisters who haven’t already left, are leaving or are more in the place the “older” sisters are. Some of us new sisters need what probably most of you needed. I have gone back and read old posts, and my impression was the whole “tough love” thing happened much further along in the process, and only when someone was really refusing to see the danger they were in. Otherwise, there was a lot of gentleness, kindness and support when new sisters did hard and brave things to move into a better place with this awful tragedy in their lives. I believe this has changed as some of you have been on the site for a long time. I can understand that, because you likely are trying to prevent us from going through things you went through, or avoid making mistakes you made, but this is creating a “clique” attitude that if a new sister can’t yet be in the same place or appear headed for the same decisions and place, you become harsh and acerbic.
I would really appreciate your efforts not to be defensive, and not to refuse to self-examine. All of you have been asking me and others to self-examine, which I have done and will continue to do as fast as I can. When I first came to this site, I couldn’t leave my apartment and was dependent on SAH for everything. My colonectomy years ago was severely botched, leaving me with a serious pain disorder (for which I take NO medicine as I would rather use biofeedback and prayer than be addicted to opiates) and constant leaking in unpleasant places, as well as the likelihood of an accident at any time. I am likewise very phobic about doctors, especially here, where they don’t even have to take any school past a BA level.Yet on everyone’s (especially Trish’s) advice, I forced myself to go–to tell a stranger that my fucking husband is a sex addict, and basically got the co-addict BS combined with a distinct feeling that he himself was a sex addict (they are common here).
Then, I arranged to have a telephone appointment with a trauma style therapist–also at all of your advice, for next week, despite that fact that I can’t afford it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You all suggested that the “dribble” of info was hurting me and retraumatizing me, so I set a a boundary with my SAH (something he is VERY unused to) not to reveal any more crap to me, so he immediately broke the boundary repeatedly. I demanded that he tell his sponsor–not me–until I have a therapist and a polygraph, but he put me in a position to tell me vile things the night before he had his interview with the CEO of the company we NEED him to get a job with. So I had to hold it all in–no reaction–so he could feel ok and rested and we didn’t have a knock down drag out. he did it again yesterday, so I made the extremely difficult and scary decision to have an in-house separation. All of this on your collective advice. Diane even said in a very terse and hurtful way maybe the second time I posted anything about myself:
1. You are an abused woman
2. get an attorney
3.Leave now.
Before that, I had timidly tried to post a few suggestions for Teri and a few other supportive welcomes and such, because I have been through an extremely ugly divorce. but I was so scared to tell my story–so humiliated. So fucking alone. some people like Bev, For Now, Teri March,
and even newbie Cat are really good at opening up. I am not and never have been.
This list of three from Diane did NOT help me. It made me cry and afraid. I already had a plan to get an attorney–my family is full of them, and my sister and brother-in-law practice family law and have for 15 years so they know the judges well, in Whidbey island Washington. I need to make SURE the jurisdiction is there, or I will have to find non-existent money to pay someone who may not fight as hard for me! I am intelligent, though freaked out, upset and in agony and loss, though still worldly and sophisticated.What I needed was to feel less ashamed: LESS ASHAMED. Not more ashamed, not as if I am different that you all and somehow just seeking a way to bitch and complain. I needed to feel less alone.
Can you please explain to me why you all can talk about itching powder and box cutters in suitcases, sneaking laxatives in food, throwing their shit out, but somehow my wanting to toss his fucking aftershave down the fucking sink was evidence of a lack of serious desire to heal?????????? I only told that I did that to lighten up what I was embarrassed was too heavy a post.
You may think I am the only one to feel this way but I am not.
OMG you are not the only one to feel that way – I have had days where I thought I would go stark craving nuts and that nothing would ever look like the life I thought I had or that my life would be mine again – I wish I could tell you that the shame has gone but it has not – we are not here to add to your shame and if we have I am so sorry – I can only speak for me when I tell you that you are right – there are many comments made about hitting partners on the head with shovels, slipping laxatives into their food blah, blah, blah, and that revenge shared by many is no less a desire to heal than yours – it took all of the energy I had not to call H’s boss and tell him that the image he was living was a bunch of bullshit but I knew in the end I would fuck myself over even harder. Like you I am not from this country and do not have any friends I have confided in locally, which has left me playing a part that is not true and kept him immune from the legacy of his lies – you certainly don’t need to feel further traumatized by SOS – and again you are right people are in different stages with their discovery and their decision making – yours is not our to judge but to support – I don’t know your story just like most people here don’t know mine – we all have a shared story of sorts but not a tryture and deep knowledge of our FOO and prior history of overcoming – I will not assume that for you as i don’t want it assumed for you – and I do truly offer kindness but it has to be felt to mean anything – I promise to keep a space for you – love Meg
Omg patsy, I’m sorry! It’s so hard to be the new kid on the block, the kid that’s asking for understanding and help from complete strangers. Please don’t give up. These girls are here for you, more than you know. You’re feeling, I’m sure, angry and defensive about putting yourself out there and perceivably not receiving the support you need. I’m sorry. I really am. We’re all at different places, some harder than others and I’m so sorry you don’t feel embraced by the sisters here. I know without a shadow of a doubt that the sisters words were not meant to hurt you. Give it time!! We’re all here for you. We’re all struggling, just not likely in the same exact place. Please don’t give up. Hugs xxx
thank you so much. that means a lot. I really was about to leave this forum, but now I won’t. I know my emotions are high right now, but I still think we should be careful with each other! thanks for being there today!
Patsy I’m so sorry that you are in this horrible place. We all feel your pain and I know that things can be easily said but not easily done. Let us walk with you Patsy. Much love, Catherine xox
Patsy we are all at different points of a long complicated journey. Please know that it’s not always easy to “watch” another woman be abused. What you have written about your situation strikes fear in my heart for you. What we fear may happen we have witnessed in other sisters. We have seen others get sucked in and lose the ability to get out.
If your boundaries are being violated you are being abused. You need help. If you are sick with worry you won’t focus on work and are at risk of losing it all – I lost two jobs through SA related trauma ineffectiveness. You do need legal advice and quick. Trying to play normal in a seriously fucked up world won’t help.
Sisters who are telling you this are doing you a favour although it may not feel like it. Sometimes the right thing to do isn’t the most sympathetic or sugar coated. I’m sorry.
I am also deeply sorry for your hurt upon hurt upon hurt.
Please find a way to start resolving that hurt by loving you, not by exacting revenge because ultimately that won’t make you feel better. And btw – sell the Rolex and stuff of value and use it to do something for you.
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