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You were right that I was upset by Karen’s post today as it was both presumptuous and incorrect: but Diane seems to want to know what she said (see her comment above)which was hurtful, scary and upsetting to a total newbie. I quote:
2 weeks 3 days ago, I posted “How do I get through this?”
Some other people offered various advice , much of which I took and have acted on. However, Diane chose to write:
You are an abused woman.
You are geographically isolated and financially tied.
Get a really good lawyer and talk this through.I had already made it clear I was in total emotional crisis and paralyzed. The tone was not kind–nothing about caring about me or my predicament, just three sentences and that’s all. Fine for someone months down the road, but pretty awful for where I was. cruel and angry.
I have since taken some of her advice, but I have also noted that if a person is not very clear that they are LEAVING their husband, she is quite short and terse. I don’t think that we should judge other people’s choices–but that is just my opinion.
There are times when we are in an emotional crises that saying ( or typing) things out in a simple format is helpful. I remember Trish being devastated and I typed a post to her in a very factual manner because the facts are just the facts.
None of us are counselors are therapists ( except March and Meg). We are not perfect. We carry our own pain too. I do not know of anyone on this site that hasn’t had their feelings hurt or had a post directed to them that they didn’t agree with.
Patsy, you seemed to be in terrible mess. We all tried to help the best we could. If some or all missed the mark then it was not for any mean spirited reason.
Remember every woman on here is wounded. Maybe some are vocal, some are silent, some are loud, and some are quiet but we are all wounded and the wound may be healing but the scar is still right there front and center.
Yes, we laugh and joke at times. We also cry and vent at times. Take what you can use and just leave the rest…
Thank you, Patsy, for confirming that you rewrote and misrepresented what I said.
If you look at ALL my posts to your threads, you will find many truly heartfelt expressions of compassion. I can certainly copy and post them all here as proof of that. And with other sisters, when I have spoken out of turn I am quick to apologize and stand corrected. Everyone makes mistakes. So I don’t appreciate you laying down one false accusation only to take up another. What’s that about? Not me, anyway.
It is strange that you now suggest you are very shy, since you have posted long and detailed descriptions of the abuse you have endured. I took those very seriously. Perhaps you weren’t aware of the picture you painted of your abuse. It was very disturbing. Have another look at the life you described. As I said I took it very seriously and responded with grave concern.
Karen also took your words very seriously and responded directly to the situation you described–a very serious and dangerous situation. Is it possible that in your many long and detailed posts, the story got away from you, and you “rewrote” events the way you rewrote what I said?
I also note the use of “cunt” in reference to his Asian woman. Very rare for women to use that term about other women. Do you think I am also a cunt? You also describe me now as cruel and angry towards you. I’m certainly experiencing that from you. Are you ever responsible for anything you say?
Sisters, what is being done to me here is called gaslighting.
You may be a Patsy, but I’m not. I sincerely hope that you get the professional help you need. I’m out.
Patsy, I am very much like you in the sense that I am a little shy and have a harder time talking about the personal details of my life with my husband and opening up myself and my story, and I am in awe of the women who seem to this so easily. I admire you for being able to ask for help when you are needing help. That is a huge step and worthy of praise! And you are doing it. When I think about why it’s hard to post, the answers are there for me.
1. It’s hard to be honest and vulnerable and accept whatever responses come back. It takes a tremendous amount of courage to say, “Im listening, give me what you’ve got.”
2. When I got/get responses back that I’m not ready to hear or maybe just don’t agree with, I would “bristle” for lack of a better word, say to myself they don’t know me, I knew this was a bad idea, I should have deleted that post. My therapist told me that if what I want was a group to comfort me and agree with me, that’s great, necessary even, but that’s not where “growth happens.” She used those words and I remember thinking, who cares about growth? I just want to stop being a hysterical, barely keeping it together mess.
3. I was afraid of taking too much space in the room, still am a little and that’s entirely about me, not this site.
What I learned about myself in this process is that I need to talk when I need to talk about things. And that I will get better and see things more clearly, just by writing them down. That I will get comfort and that will help. That I will have people who agree and that will help. That I will have people who disagree and that will help. That there will occasionally be posts/responses that hit me “wrong.” And my therapist was right, that’s where my growth happens. I have found that the things that bother me the most are the things I need to look at, because sometimes they are about me, and sometimes they aren’t. But I have to sit back and be honest and decide what is and isn’t my issue.
I care about you, Patsy, and I care about every woman on here. The issue isn’t whether we agree or not, whether something was said in a way that was comforting or not. the issue is that we care about each other and that something was said, and that’s a positive thing. It takes courage to post our reality, it takes courage to respond with our own reality. Please stay, please be yourself, please take what you find useful, please leave the rest. love, CourtneyPatsy, I am still married even though I am separated. Not once in the 9 months that I have been on this site have I ever experienced Diane as cruel or angry toward me or any other Sister on this site. Quite the opposite in fact. She is one of the most compassionate, caring women on this site. If you can not see that, you are not seeing clearly at all. Karen is open and honest and forthright in her posts. That is who she is. She too is neither cruel, angry or uncaring. Please do not mistake honesty for meanness. As I said in my post on your other thread and as Bev also said, we are not professional therapists, we are women who are trying to help others while we move through our own pain. We are all doing the best we can. Karen and Diane are two of our most precious assets and I love them both dearly. If you can’t see their worth, I would suggest the problem lies in your perception and not with them.
This is a very unique community, and a sanctuary from the “Co-idiot” world out there. In this place the objective is more about finding your center, as opposed to learning how to whirl around as a human gyroscope for a disordered narcissist and convincingly deny your vertigo.
Patsy,
I went back through and did not see that post that Diane was supposed to have made. Regardless, short posts are not terse, harsh, acerbic, or unkind simply by virtue of brevity.
Your calling out sisters individually, praising or remonstrating them at length based upon what they “should do” bothers me a lot. You can speak for yourself, of course, but saying someone is not appropriate with new “sisters” is speaking for others. You are one new sister. I was, too. Those women you called out were also the ones who addressed me as a new sister, and so many others, and here we are, still. I didn’t always hear what I wanted to hear, either. But here I am and happy to be in their company. Hearing what you don’t want to hear is hard, but living with the hell you can’t see or acknowledge yet is harder.
I hope you do get what you need here, but no sister should be taken down if they didn’t provide it the way you expected or wanted. Maybe it would help to know that you can say “that hurt” here and it’s the beginning of a discussion. Not a slamming door in your face, or something you have to defend or pay for. You don’t have to come out guns blazing here, just a white flag is enough.
Please forgive me. I love all of you and you helped me through the darkest of days.
But I reread through all of this, and what I saw was defensive. But I didnt really see shaming, blaming or manipulation. All of this in a thread entitled “help”. 🙁 Someone asking for help….
Diane was called “short and terse” –I mean seriously, I know it hurts when you are trying to help someone and they accuse you of being insensitive. But short and terse isnt much of an insult really. I dont think she was looking to hurt any of us. I think she felt people were responding to her in a callous way (which by the way I disagree with, I think you were all fine and trying to help.)
And I know in her next thread it got harsher, but very quickly she was being called out as a possible fraud etc. I love Diane and Karen, and think they did nothing wrong. But I also dont think her criticisms were so horrible. (though Im sorry they hurt Diane so much) I think if we reread through it all, it sort of looks like the heaviest of criticisms were levied at her. (see the other threads)
I dont want to hurt people or make anyone angry here. I will let this whole thing go. I just wanted to call it out. I think we did lose objectivity. I love you all. I dont think this was our finest hour. Who knows maybe things like this are inevitable? I just want to stand up to say maybe a mistake was made…Bonnie, maybe I am misunderstanding, but she just above the short and terse, she also said Diane was hurtful, scary, cruel, angry, not caring about patsy and her predicament- would any of those ever words fit the Diane you know?
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