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I would like to ask your opinion on what to do.
I am sure it is going to be difficult to answer this question with out all of the information, but I will ask it and see where it goes.
My lawyer has asked me to get an appraisal of my home. I have called several appraisers and found one who would do it for $650.00.
The problem is that my husband is claiming that we do not have any extra money and is very upset with me for hiring an attorney. Her costs are already at $15,000.00 and I am not really exactly sure what she has done for me. It is embarrassing because I feel so ignorant with all of this financial stuff. I hired this lawyer because her credentials met that of the one that my husband hired, but I do think that she is very pricey. I find that I am in a very uncomfortable position as I mettle through all of this because I want to protect myself, at the same time, I don’t want to be naively spending money that is not necessary.
I did hire a realtor that gave me a figure that he would list the house for sale as. I think the figure is a bit high, and it is about $100,000.00 more than the tax value. My husband is using the higher figure as the one to be used on the ending balance sheets to determine the distribution of assets. We are talking about $100,000.00 figure that is in question here. My experience has been so far that money gets eaten up by these lawyers and before you know it $100,000.00 will just be gone spent on their fees anyway.
My husband told me that I should fire my lawyer and just use his. I told him that I would be willing to fire both of our lawyers and get a neutral lawyer together. He was not willing to do that and I of course will not fire mine and just use his. He said that my lawyer is out of control and charging way to much. He says that I am going to have a hell of a lot of lawyer fees to pay when this is all over.
I am so nervous because I have been financially dependent on him and fear that the court will not honor the history of our marriage and the fact that I have been a stay at home mother. He has all of our money tied up in the business that he bought and is claiming a much smaller income than what we had been accustomed to for the duration of our marriage. I am so worried that I am going to be stuck with big lawyer fees, home equity loans and who knows what else, while he reaps the benefits of owning his own business.
How can this happen? Should I hire this appraiser or is my husband correct in the fact that I am going to have all of these huge bills?
Thanks Cindy
No he is NOT right. Save money AFTER the divorce.You CANNOT trust him Cindy. If u don’t like your lawyer get another one BUT don’t share his and don’t listen to ANYTHING he says. If were NOT for him…you wouldn’t need a f–king lawyer! How dare he badger you about costs when this is ALL his doing? Karen xx
the lawyer I interviewed said he would be happy to represent my h, but he will be my lawyer no matter what. He said it would be to my advantage if my h agreed to that.
If you share a lawyer it should be yours not his. What if you had 2 more realitors come through and give you a market analysis? You are allowed, and it is possbile that you will want to move at some point. When I sell a house (4 times) I always had 3 realitors go through, I told them each that they had competition and then I sold the house by owner. If you get 3 estimates, average them, or turn all 3 into the lawyer and if there is a big discreptincy, insist your Husband pay for the apprasial!!We used one atty for my first divorce. He told us that as long as we agreed he could represent both but once there was a dispute it becomes a contested divorce and my ex would have to get his own. We continued agreeing so it wasn’t a problem. If there’s large divisions of marital assets and property I would probably get two just to be safe.
Cindy,
I think $650 to save $100,000 off your side of the balance sheet (which he gets $50,000) is a bargain. I understand why he doesn’t want you to spend the money. He’s wanting to undervalue his business and overvalue the house, both to his advantage. However you’re way too smart for that.
Love, Nap xo
PS I think percent growth since he bought the business should be added into the value of his business, unless they factored that in already. The more his business is valued, your half is worth more.
When I divorced my first husband, I got records, receipts, etc. for EVERYTHING that could prove monthly spending. He owned restaurants and hid money, embezzled from the business, you name it. On record, he didn’t make nearly as much as he actually did. PLUS, I found out when I was combing through EVERYTHING, he was booking bets, doing all kinds of weird stuff. Point being, Once I could show that we’d had a standard of living that exceeded what he claimed to make, he had to make some serious concessions to keep from having to answer for that legally. I even had the video store print out the history that showed I’d spent something like $1800 in late fees. (I tend to procrastinate.)
Do not share his attorney!
Would the realtor give you a highball estimate because he/she thought you were going to sell and wanted to promise you the moon to get your business? I don’t really know how that works, just thinking.
I see 2 issues- the appraisal which the cost is not that much in the big scheme of things and the 3 realtor idea sounds good. You might want to explain why you are getting their estimate up front?
The attorney, which is a tough one. I get sick to my stomach when I see my attorney invoices. I know mine is tough and good, so I just don’t look at it but file it away. I do the same with daughter’s college expenses. I can’t control either and they are necessary, so I just have to let it go. I don’t know if that is the best strategy but worrying myself sick over one more thing isn’t good either.
I’m sure there’s an assertive business-like approach, but I’m not sure what it is and I am too emotionally exhausted and can’t focus on anything (hard to even follow a recipe or a newspaper article) from the PTSD. Maybe that’s just a cop-out, but I use my strength to take care of my kids and the things I feel like I some control over.
We are in tough positions doing things that there are no manuals for at a time when we are stressed, vulnerable and in pain. Allow yourself to not do things perfectly, but don’t allow yourself to give in to him.
Thank you all for your replies.
Kmf – I feel your anger in your post and it fires me up. YES, damnit! how dare he badger me. You have helped me to open this protective side of me that I need to put more strength into.
Hadj608 – I like the idea of getting other realtors in for a market analysis. The realtor that I had brought in about three with him, but they were all from the same company. Perhaps I should have a different company come in.
for-now – I think it is good to agree as much as possible and save on atty fees. The problem I am having is that I really don’t know what I am agreeing to. He filed for divorce, but has not spelled anything out as to what his intentions are. I received a proposal two months ago, but it was full of holes. It really did not tell me much. My lawyer was going to make a counter proposal, but than he did not pay her so she could not move forward with the counter. Than time and money was spent in trying to figure out how she should be payed. Even though in the first and only mediation meeting that we had, it was determined that my lawyer get paid the same way that his lawyer was paid. However, that never happened. Than they tried to say that he did not know what my set up was for paying lawyer fees. It just keeps getting more and more complicated. I really hate all of this. I mean if he wants a divorce than tell me in black and white what you intend.
NAP – Yes, $650 to save $100,000 seems like a bargain. It is not that easy though. What I am finding is that $650 turns into more and than that unfolds something else and before you know it all your money is gone. I really feel like that is how these lawyers operate. Maybe I am paranoid and but I am just not sure who has my best interest at heart. I know that my lawyer is good and is supposed to be working for me, but I have a feeling that how my case turns out is not going to impact her what so ever. She will just go on, and I will be dealing with an empty bank account and life. I am smart enough to know that he is undervaluing his business and overvaluing the house. What my research is telling me is that I am also smart enough to see that according to NO FAULT divorce and underhanded business tactics, there is NOT much I can do about it. This is what is making me super frightened by our current laws and systems. We as woman who have taken on a supportive role to our families continue to be oppressed in our society. Woman have come so far in our world to fight for equality. We have made great strides and continue to fight for our rights. Exposing glass ceilings and other corruption continues to expose what we are up against. I believe society is slowing coming around full circle to value not only the role woman can play in a business/career setting, but also value the role woman give in supporting their families. I did not support my family financially, but I did make a difference in my families life. That difference is what is in question. Who pays for that difference? The simple answer is that my husband paid for that difference. We both made an intelligent choice for me to stay at home to raise our children because that is what was “right” for us. So when it was convenient for him to have me play a supportive role to him, that was great. Now that it is no longer convenient for him, he wants to walk away and take away what I have supported all of these years? I am facing not only the heartache of losing my husband, but also the judgement of society that is suggesting my contribution to our family is no longer worthy of financial compensation. A man can easily walk away from his responsibilities because after all, a woman should not have been dependent on a man in the first place. A value can not be placed on the contribution that was given by me (the dependent person), so the court will look at what is currently available. The financially savvy business person who knows the loops can make the statements look pretty much how he wants them to. He has worked for multi million dollar companies and has been applauded for his business knowledge and financial ability to play with numbers that is advantageous to their profit margins. He is rewarded time and time again with his ability to carve out exactly the right amount to make all of the figures check and balance. He is smart and he has the drive and passion to make business click. I don’t know how he does it. It has always amazed even me. I have admired his abilities and have supported his drive. I have benefited from his knowledge and now I am on the other end of it and it scares the hell out of me. I can fight and try to defend my end, but the bottom line always comes down to the bottom dollar. I am afraid that once again the dollar will prove to win out and he will be rewarded by the courts and be able to have the numbers line up in such a fashion that I am the one who will suffer. I guess time will tell, but if by most accounts, this is the pattern that is prevalent. And so the oppression of woman continue on………..
March – I would love to talk with you more to find out how you found out some of the things that you did. That would helpful.
Teri – I understand the sick to your stomach feeling that you speak of. You are right though, I have been worrying myself sick over all of this, and I really just have to forge on. I am emotionally exhausted. I have to let go because I can’t solve most of these problems. It makes me angry that woman in my position have no real litigation rights due to the No fault divorce. A person who is burned by a fast food’s hot coffee has more rights than a woman who devoted her life for 27 years to a man who promised to love, honor and treasure her. Something is seriously wrong with this picture and I don’t know what can be done about it. When all of this started becoming clear to me, the way this was going down legally, I thought to myself that I was going to fight for us woman. I was going to do something to protect this segment of the population that is being cast aside by a fast forward moving society.
I am afraid that I am just to tired. The fight has wore me out. I am sure that this is what has happened to many woman who went through this before me. You just get to exhausted by the time it is over to expose the corruption that is taking place. When you take a look at what it is that I am fighting against just to live a comfortable life, it is just to overwhelming. It would be taking on big business, social movements that ebb and flow based on a corrupt political environment. All of this just for little ol’ me hanging on to what is at the heart of living, having the faith to believe that a person words are true!!!!Oh Cindy, I have no words of wisdom regarding the divorce process, but I will share this quote from Gandhi that has gotten me through some tough times: “When I despair, I remember that all through history the ways of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants, and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible, but in the end they always fall. Think of it–always.”
It galls me to hear how these men screw everyone over with their sa’s and have the fucking nerve to make our life HELL in a divorce. Karma is a bitch and it slaps harder than I ever could. No matter how bad it gets just remember they will all get what’s coming to them in the end. It may not happen right away but it WILL happen!
((Cindy)) I don’t have any advice on this, as my first husband and I didn’t go the lawyer route when we divorced. I just wanted to say how sorry I am for all this. I keep thinking of when you posted a pic of your beautiful Christmas tree, and how I just wanted to jump into the picture and curl up, because you made the whole room look so cozy. Like for-now said, I keep thinking of karma too, in your situation. Because you are such a sweet, caring person and this is just so wrong. I want you to have your beach and a cozy room that you can see the ocean from, and to feel peace and comfort in your life, because you deserve it so so much. Sending much love to you. xoxo
In the words of my brother ( he is NO Ghandi!):
” STOP fighting like a girl!! These assholes count on your emotions to rule you. Put your heart up and take your brain out. There will be plenty of time to fall apart later.”I have no clue about divorce ( yet ). But I do know that my brother is right. Stop crying and get angry:)
The details sound daunting and completely fucked up but you cannot focus on the unfairness right now. Gather up all info you can get. Pour yourself a solid shot of Crown Royal ( or drink of choice) and let the anger flood. Then, have a second shot, decide what you REALLY need to fight for… Money, house, kids.. Etc. Once you get a clear picture go back to your attorney and let her have it.
Then divorce yourself from worry and let the chips fall 🙂
Play smart! I am rooting for you!!
Ahhh, Bev!!! I knew there was a reason I loved you!!! 🙂
PS- Crown Royal happens to be my choice!! (XR if possible) lol!!Cindy- a good lawyer is worth every dime and yes, they
Cost lots of dimes!! Call me when you get a chance. 317 797 5328… I would love to chat and help!! XOXO!!Sharron,
I have treated myself (post divorce) to about 4 bottles of XR over the course of 5 months or so…. Each time I pour a little shot, I toast and thank Dum Dum for a generous settlement. Lol- it was the LEAST he could do!!! 🙂I was an appraiser. I don’t know about the appraisal fee. In my the typical fee for an average home is about $400. However when i was getting my divorce my attorney quoted a fee appraisal price of about $600 – which is overstated by $200. Appraisers are pretty hungry for work right now, you may be better served calling around and hiring them yourself, vs. through the attorney. I have done several, if not 100’s, of divorce apprasial and we did not charge more just because it is a divorce. And in actuality or fee of $400 is high, alot of these mortgage companies right now are paying less than $300. Thus the starving appraisers.
If both attorneys can agree on an appraiser…and the appraiser would hopefully be unbiased. But often an appraiser may be hired for the husband who wants a low number, and the appraiser will sway to the low side. Every home value, expecically these days, can be made high or low…depending on who the appraiser is. Personally iw ould never do that, but unf. there are some out there who do.
Now the tax assessement is how different than the value – $100,000…when was that value. Here in CT those values are established every 5 years. I think i have heard in some states they only do a statistical valuation which is obviously less reliable. Either way tax assessement is not something you should hang your hat on….unless its my numbers anyway 🙂
Atty.s…never share. For him to represent both is a conflict of interest…and he will just represent your husband. You could both fire your attys and go to a frim which does mediation. And in that case…this new atty is a middle man to help settle the divorce. They are not an advocate for either party.
I had to fire my initial atty after he racked up fees of $10,000 and i had nothing to show for it except a temp agreement. They kept going back and forth and him saying we are not going to get anywhere with these fools and we are going to have to go to court…i need $5,000 more dollars. And also telling me along the way that court will cost about $10,000. I don’t have that kind of money, nor do we have any assetss to speak of.
So. I fired him and went with the other atty’s office i had origianlly interviewed as the same time as him. They are a mediation tyoe of firm…this guy got my divorce done in 3 months and we did not have to go to court…go figure. So sometimes you do have to fire your atty. I still not paid the first atty…and i don;t plan to. He can sue me. And i am pretty sure the ace is in my pocket as we were able to settle without going to court….
If you are conserned that the fees your atty has charged are excessive or unwarranted…you can ask for an itemized bill. Which is more than what they typically give you. And at your request have them furnish you an itemized bill which will state the date, amount of time spent, who did the work and what they did. If these items are grossly overstated vs. the work that has been actually completed…you may want to fire a new atty.
Good luck Cindy…
Love,
Flora
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