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So, here’s the man sworn to spend the rest of his life winning me back. 1am Christmas Eve, after I’ve finished stuffing the children’s stockings. He starts getting that look, and I say, is there something you need to talk about. H, “Yes, I guess there is” me – I’m listening H- after dramatic pause and puppy dog eyes, “I forgot to get anything for you” Me – no reply, no change in expression (took ALL the control I had to keep from either laughing at the absurdity of that, or crying) H – “I’ve just been so busy”. Me – no response. H – Say something. Me – what do you want me to say?
H – I don’t know.
M – no response
H – rolled over, turned out light, “goodnight”
M – “Merry Christmas”Passive aggressive (it’s a form of abuse). So sorry Lynn. My h in the 25 yrs we were married managed to ‘forget’ every major holiday, birthday, mothers day at one time or another. I started having horrible anxiety when these special days would approach. Then I started buying my own presents and they were really nice and what I wanted.
Love, Napand yes, mine would also not bother, or get me a really cheap toaster, hand mixer, coffee maker, etc.
I am successfully avoiding this topic. Not a drop of Narc Supply from this, I will die before I’ll make a scene, or cry. But God, is it that important to make someone feel like crap? How do you live with yourself if you’re a Narc, that intent on bleeding every drop of emotion out of another human being?
ahhhh… that is a very good question Lynn, and one I’ve also pondered, myself.
Have you ever read Sam Vaknin, the NPD expert? I’ve gotten a lot out of what he has to say about “malignant narcissism.” very interesting stuff.
Narcissists do not feel badly about bleeding every drop of emotion from another human being, anymore than a mosquito does. In fact, he feels justified, because he is fulfilling his own needs. He is taking care of #1 and if you work into his scheme, then fine and if not, then you can just run along, except for the WIFE/PLACEHOLDER. She serves a very special function. She is the one to give him credibility as a person and besides, he’s entitled to have a WIFE. If she doesn’t like the way he conducts his “personal” life, then he will either find a way to put her down, or depending on what other issues he has, he might go into a rage, or he might grow distant and unavailable. Or he might apologize for something he didn’t do and leave out the real deal breaker. And then, just to keep you completely off balance, he’ll do something very nice and very “loving.”
But, he cannot sustain it. He can’t sustain it, because it is not REAL love. It is all based on what his own fucked up needs are. And its on a continuum. But, for all narcs, their behavior is inconsistent and shifts capriciously. This is where the expression “walking on eggshells” came from.
Its crazy making behavior.
so, the way he lives with himself, is quite easily and well, actually. Even IF there’s conflict. Its never his fault. Why he’s justified, as in the famous film director, to yell, insult and condescend to his son’s friend’s mother. After all, if my son was misbehaving, surely its because *I* am a bad mother. And a poor role-model and on and on…
But it is he who’s the bad role model, yelling at me on the phone from LA, when the boys are in Manhattan and I am 40 miles away, at home. And then, he gets off and tells my son that I’m an asshole.
But no… he did nothing wrong.
He’s perfect.
He’s a very extreme case, but I believe that the basis is the same.
They simply do not understand when they are being hurtful. They cannot feel your hurt and they feel completely justified in their actions. It is EVERYONE ELSE, who has the problem, or is at fault– never himself!!!
But… BRAVA on holding it together!!! What he did was classic P-A behavior at its best.(I meant worst) And furthermore, when he asked you to make a statement, he was provoking “drama.”
He knew that you would be angry. And yet, he “forgot” because he was too “busy.”
My h doesn’t forget. He just doesn’t deem it necessary.
Thou shalt not have too much joy or too much from me.
After all, he thinks: “I may not be able to do what’s expected of me…”
never mind that he truly has no idea, in the first place.
Merry Xmas Everyone – I thought the day was going great until Steve ruined it for me once more. A Narcissist in every way. I had my family over – two sons, two grandchildren, and the fiance of one of my sons. She is the one Steve objectified in the past. His Counselor told him to look in her direction (1second rule) like he is acknowledging what she is saying and then quickly look away. Do you think he could do that??? Hell No!!!!! He lookd at her quite a bit. When he and I were out on the porch, I said it was fne for him to look at her. (Knew he already had, and wanted to see whathe would say. He told me, “Not going to do it.!” He was very emphatic about it. We come in the house, and within a few minutes he is looking at her.
Can’t decide if this is pure NARCISSISM or P/A. He fits the bill so well for so many of these disorders – particular BPD.
Anyway, all he had to say for himself was, ” Well, I didn’t trigger.” Pin a rose on his ass. He is supposed to be doing what he says he is going to do – what is the saying, “They can’t say what they are going to do, or do what they say they are going to do.”
Well, he ruined one more holiday for me. We are still in different bedrooms, and it is going to stay that way. I just can’t figure out why he is so vehement about saying he wasn’t going to do it, and then turn around and do it. Any ideas, other than he is a sick fuck???
Hope you all had a better christmas than I did.The answer is: he really is a sick fuck. That’s my idea. Sharron, it’s the same dance, step off the dance floor.
Love, NapSharron, SA’s objectify all remotely attractive women. I don’t understand how your h can NOT look at someone who is in his home, participating in conversations, etc. And if I were at someone’s home and someone there wouldn’t look at me for more than 1 second at a time, I would be extremely uncomfortable. This seems like a test no one could pass. How awful a test for you, too, constantly eyeing him to see what/who he’s looking at. The only way out of this is blinders–or acceptance that he will have to see and look at women in a responsible way.
I was thinking about you Lynn… and your H’s lame excuses… blah… and then the idiot psychologist or whatever she is, on AC who said something that there is always a break down in communication which leads to discontent in the marriage and can lead to a man (or a woman) acting out…having affairs, etc.
So, let’s see.
Husband doesn’t get a present for his wife. He knows he hasn’t. He waits until the 11.999th hour to tell her that she forgot and waits for the ensuing “hammer to the head,” which he didn’t get, so he rolled over and went to sleep.
Could it be that Lynn did not COMMUNICATE that she expected a Christmas Present? Did she not communicate adequately, her disgust that her husband is a selfish ass???
Did he not get his need for drama met? And then need to go and find it elsewhere– ie: doing something he vowed not to do, because it is naughty and risky?
BINGO.
After all, you never told him that he couldn’t do that. Or you did, before you were married, but failed to communicate the same wish, AFTER you were married.
You see, Lynn– the answer is… you are a lousy “communicator.” 😉
no wonder your husband needs to act out! no wonder he doesn’t know what he’s supposed to do. You never told him PRECISELY WHAT YOU NEED. YOU DIDN’T REMIND HIM TO GET YOU A CHRISTMAS GIFT.
you are supposed to monitor his every move and tell him EXACTLY what is EXPECTED OF HIM, LEAVING NO STONE UNTURNED!!!
otherwise, how is he to ever know?
no wonder we’re so completely exhausted… no wonder, they need so MANY woman!!! what ONE woman could do ALL of that?
xo ~ L
Hi March – You are right all SA’s objectify women. In my h’s case, none of them are attractive. Because he has such a problem with lusting/objectifying, his Therapist told him to do a 1 second look, or look past them to acknowledge what they are saying, and this was a way for him to get through Xmas without a problem for him. I might add this is a gal
he has sexualized in the past. I think the therapist was also trying to get me through Xmas without anymore trauma.The real issue here is that Steve was very firm about keeping that committment and then went right in the house and continued looking at her. I don’t know if this is bpd, narcissism, p/a, or all of them. I have never seen a patient, in my entire psych career, as angry as he is – he reeks with it!!!
Thanks NAP. I don’t know why I keep needing the validation. I know you are right, and have pretty much reached my limit. After seeing Steve’s therapist, I have begun to see it so much more clearly. That doesn’t mean I know how to handle this yet, but I am starting to really hate the SOB. Bu,t again, am really wrestling with going back and living like a pauper or living a nice life-style until I die-probably won’t be too long since I am almost 70. I have maybe 10-15 yrs. I know what you are going to say – accept him as he is, or get out, and I know you are right. It is just so hard to do. I know, same song 100th verse.
His counselor is really helping me to see how sick he really is, so maybe for the 1st time, I will actually get there. This last session, he told me he see’s Steve lie almost every time he see’s him. Any progress? I should say not.
I still have not figured out why I struggle so much and go through so much emotional abuse and don’t break the tie. Guess I am as sick as he is. I truly feel that way, but as I tell Steve, life is a choice and I will have to make one before I crack up.
Thank you March and NAP. Hugs to you.I hate to see you so conflicted Sharron. I understand it too. I have to say, however, I don’t understand the “objectifying” thing that you see.
I mean, I’m not sure if there’s a man on the planet who doesn’t do that and I think that most of us woman do too
Attraction and lusting is normal human behavior. Yes, its creepy and inappropriate for him to fantasize about his children and other relatives, but he’s psychodude and this is the way that he is. I’m not there, and so I can’t tell if he’s also condescending or putting you down in other subtle ways. One second rule? I don’t know. I think that’s a recipe to drive everyone insane. You looked two seconds. No, I didn’t it was 1.5 seconds and then I looked away.
Who friggin cares???
I don’t actually hear that he’s doing anything TO you, that’s negative or abusive. At least, not in this post. Its that you don’t like what he’s doing to others, or maybe its that you don’t like what’s going inside his pretty little head. But, honey, you cannot control that. I don’t think that you are going to leave him either. And that is fine. I’m sure that he’s a sexy charming man. (when he wants to be) and he affords you to have more security and a better lifestyle and there ain’t nothin wrong with that!
I guess if I had a wish for you, is that you could let what’s going on inside his head, that you cannot control– go… and not worry, because it is what it is… and no amount of therapy is going to change it.
Love,
Laurel
Last year my h gave me the wrong gift set I asked for and when I unwrapped it there was a big bugger on it. Gee thanks for the buggar!!!
Now, I get to chose, either be real and speak my honest emotions, or be fake and play like it’s all ok and wear the POOR COMMUNICATOR badge I now wear thanks to the 1 minute psychiatrist.
I HATE being the heavy. I am so laid back, and here we are, Christmas, and I’m the heavy, again. Slam, no, honey, it’s not about love and peace and joy. YOU have to be the hurt and angry bear, remember?
This morning, after I get out of the shower, H, who is still in bed, leans out and makes a flirty remark inviting me back to bed.
I walked up to him. “You mean you want to have sex?”
H- “well, yes”.
Me- “No.”
H- “Why.”
Me- “I am hurt. You completely forgot me at Christmas. The excuse you gave was “I’ve been too busy to buy you a present. I, on the other hand spent an entire month preparing the house, the visit schedule, the foods, the clothing, and presents. You know it’s not about the money, anything that said “I thought about you” would have been great.”
H- just looked down, and said nothing.
Me – “I have never felt so taken for granted. You are asking me for sex like it didn’t even happen at all. You not even going to acknowledge it.”
H- just shook his head.
Me- “All those times you called the other women, all the porn, as bad as it was, there was always the outside factor: you were tempted, you had previous connection to these women and felt it important to keep in touch, you have this addiction, whatever. In this case, there was nothing but you and I, and I simply didn’t matter. You just forgot me. It was disdainful and it hurt.”
H- I’m sorry I did that.
M- Just waited for any other comment for a minute. Nothing. I walk out. Go make coffee. H comes down dressed, says “I’m going to work in the yard, and leaves.”Another great day in the neighborhood.
So, I communicated my true feelings. I suppose that I’ll be accused of not listening and communicating in anger, again. Now I’ll endure the silent treatment for a few days. He’ll act out because he’s “lonely and panicked that I’m not committed to the relationship”.
Ta Dah! I’m the bad guy again and hurting like hell. And I had to speak the truth, which gave H his Narc supply and he won. I don’t want this relationship. Have I said that, oh yeah. Sorry.
hi Lynn,
I’m sorry he hurt you on christmas. Bravo for being strong enough to tell him today and not let him weasel out.Only you can take yourself out of this relationship. When you want to, you will. Who knows what will be the final makings of that moment.
In the meantime, send me your address and I’ll send you a Christmas present.
D.xoxhoney, the psych ON AC is a complete and utter 100% idiot, and we all know this.
You (or anyone) CANNOT COMMUNICATE EFFECTIVELY WITH A NARC.
EVER!!!!!!!!!
You have been more than exemplary. I would’ve put my husband’s balls in a vice…
going dancing. 😀
Lynn,
I’d take his credit card, go out and buy the big diamond ring, go outside with it on your finger and say “Thanks for the Chistmas present”! Then walk back in the house.Lynn – What a narcissistic asshole! I 3rd it – Go out and buy yourself a VERY expensive gift.
I wonder if it is a common denominator with these sickos. Steve always acts like nothing has just happened, and ignores the issues completely. Then, all sweet and sugary!
ie: Last night, after he didn’t keep his word, as usual, I am ignoring him and he talks like everything is “Peter Perfect.”
No pun intended. Then before bedtime, he comes over and wants a kiss goodnight- I said “No Thanks,” and he walks away mumbling something under his breath like he just doesn’t get it. Guess what, none of them do.
I feel so bad for you having such a thing bestowed on you at Xmas time. Total Narcissistic behavior!Lexie – I see where you are coming from. (Just now read your post). I have to disagree with you, however that all men and women lust and it is natural – maybe for the society we live in right now, but not the way it should be.
I think we, as women, get used to the idea that men will be men, and accept it. I think that is sad.
I had so many men tell me, when I was dating, that “This is just the way God made us.” Bull Shit! They made themselves that way.
Anyway, as far as Steve. He is the typical SA – not just looking to appreciate. Has dissociated doing the objectification’s and goes into a trance-like state. That is what he did with my future daughter-in-law last time she was at our house. I think the therapist is very appropriate when he tells Steve to give a quick glance to someone, acknowledge a statement, answer, but look away quickly. Steve has not been able to do that in the past.
Besides, most of this issue is he says he is going to do something and then does not follow throught. Not only does he do that, but then turns the whole thing around, tries to put me on the defensive, and denies there is a problem.
Unfortunately, he is very good at sucking me in. In otherwords, really knows how to push my buttons. Anyway, am sick of him and his behavior.
I am just going to do what the Therapist advised, and that is to live in separate bedrooms and live my own life. He feels Steve will either correct his issues and come along, or he won’t get better. Of course, we know what the answer is!!
Thanks for writing. Hugs to you.Sharron living with this man is pure poverty in so many ways. If you divorce him and totally end it, not only will you not be poor, you will have the opportunity for a rich life.
Love you and wish I could brainwash you, NapMaybe we are talking about two different things, Sharron. I am talking about feeling attracted to someone who isn’t your spouse. Has this not ever happened to you? From what I’ve heard many people say, it is normal human behavior. You know the old saying, “I’m married, not dead.”
I’m not there, so I don’t know what is actually going on, but my heart goes out to you, because I see that you are suffering as a result.
hugs ~ L
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