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Karen – I will second that comment. What is wrong with us – I am speaking for myself.
Steve and I are now in separate bedrooms, and haven’t had sex for a month. I doubt things will change, but at least I am sticking to my boundaries for a change. No lying, anger control, and do what he is supposed to do per his therapist. So far, nothing has changed. My therapist tells me this is a must. I will either see Steve step up to the plate and come along with me, or he will not change. I predict the latter.NAP – I need a lobotomy. Wish I could be brainwashed.
Lexie- Yes, I have been attracted to other men when married to my 1st husband of 28 yrs. I was so unhappy, I am sure it was a normal thing to do.
The other two husband’s I wasn’t married to long enough to think about attractions. Ha. Caught onto their issues and got out. Since I have been married to Steve, I have never been attracted to anyone else. I guess If I really love someone, it just isn’t on my mind or happens. That is just me. I will say, however, that since I have been with Steve,
I really thrive on compliments from other guys, and I get plenty of them. Not trying to sound conceited, but as my youngest son tells me – not bad for an old bag! Am somewhat sadistic because of what Steve has done to me.I love to throw it in his face if someone tries to pick me up. I feel what is good for the goose is good for the gander. Real mature attitude, huh??? Guess I cope better that way
How are things with you. Just got back on site a couple of weeks ago, so am not up on your story. Hope things are going better for you. Last time I was on, you were having a hell of a time.
Hugs to you.I get it, I just don’t get how deep and dark it really goes. Not sure I want to. I will be free of it, too. But not letting this create an emergency that makes me dump everything I’ve worked so hard to secure for the children.
If it was just me, I’d have turned around and walked away in the airport and just found another plane to somewhere I’d never been to board. Started over with a whole new world.
Lynn,
I agree with Nap and The diamond ring thing. Just be sure you are sporting it on your middle finger when you show him!
Also, would love to jump on board Diane’s suggestion and send you a present too! Private message me your address! I think we all should do it so he can shit his pants when all the packages start showing up. I’m dead serious!!
And….as usual…. I agree with Karen, once again! She always makes such a good point!! Kudos, kmf!!! XO!!!
You all are so very inspirational to me. You make me laugh when I’m crying, and recognize my own stinking thinking and shore up my reserve when I’m just an exhausted puddle of indecision on the floor.
You ladies are sooooo sweet to think of sending me a present. I like the thought of what would happen if H saw that I’d received a lot of packages. It seems selfish of me, though, for you all to go to that trouble. H thinks he has corrected this situation. So, I don’t think he’d make the connection if I started getting packages. But it’s a funny thought.
Looking back, there is so much I have to be thankful for I feel like a whiny spoiled child in a way, for even mentioning it. But it really did matter, a LOT. Well, I got it. Loud and clear. He forgot me. H cried when I said that, but I didn’t feel bad saying it. I didn’t feel anything.
H said last night after dinner that he had asked his oldest son to get a specific gift for me (because H had “not had time to shop”), while we were away, and his son forgot until all the stores were closed on Christmas Eve. I explained to H that this holiday, after the damage done these last two months by discovering, in an excrutiating drip fashion, the degreee to which he had devalued our relationship and me throughout our relationship (which technically, with a REAL man would still be in the honeymoon phase). I really NEEDED something from him that demonstrated my value to him. Not monetarily, but symbolically.
Me- “Which story is a lie: The first story you told at 1am Christmas Day, that you forgot to get a gift for me, or this new story, blaming your son?
H – paused as if it had not occured to him that now he was proving himself, yet again, a liar. Then he apparently thought he had the best answer and said “The first”.
Me – “Don’t you think that’s cruel, to tell someone they’ve been forgotten to cover up for someone else?”
H – “I hadn’t thought of it that way.” Then started going further into detail with the “son didn’t do what I told him” story.I stopped him about four sentences in.
Me- “You sound like a teenager, just stop. You have command of millions of dollars of resources that affect dozens of jobs and families. You travel and teach PhD’s extremely complex procedures that affect the daily safety of millions of people. You have three credit cards, that i know of, that I’ll never see from work and lots of people at your command, yet you’re telling me you can’t manage to get a gift before Christmas day?”H – “No, I couldn’t. Walmart was closed. (Walmart?!? I think, nice, he knows i have a philosophical hatred of Walmart.)”
Me – “It doesn’t even close!!! It’s 24 hrs here.
H – “It closed for 12 hours over the holiday.”
Then he gave me a GPS he bought while we were together there yesterday, restocking after our trip. Lexie, Karen, Sharron, as you said, I have NEVER asked for a GPS. It was actually funny in a way, the implication that I need direction.
I asked if he thought that made everything alright, and he said “No.” But I could see in his posturing and hear in his voice that he was proud he had resolved THAT.
While tempted to do the ring thing, I don’t think I’d get away with using his credit card for such an expensive purchase without him present (latest disclosure puts the whore related expentidures over 10K between June and Dec 2010, a month before he met me). I don’t think I’m brave enough to even try. What if he got mean and decided to take me to court for fraud? What if that affected my custody of the children? First H still makes threats that he will take them away, and that would provide him a field day. I can’t take this pain I’m struggling with now, trying to prepare to be on my own with two children again, and fighting that monster in court again, all at the same time.
Oh ladies, it’s not going to be over until I’m gone, gone, GONE. How will I ever have the patience and strength to do what’s necessary to prepare?
Just think of the ring thing as a joke. I understand why you really don’t want to do it for fear of the consequences! It is still a great fantasy. I spent many hours eyeing my SA’s midlife crisis corvette. Ugh. I would have the Carrie Underwood fantasy! I dug my key into the side of his pretty little suped up 4 wheel drive (red corvette)- carved my name into his leather seat! I took a Louisville slugger to both headlights, slashed a hole in all 4 tires- maybe next time he’ll think before he cheats!!!
Ahhh, what a beautiful thought! Hey, it got me thru the day more than once!! Hang in there, Lynn! I’m pulling for you! It won’t be easy, it never IS! It will be worth it in the long run!
I will still send a gift if you change your mind!!! 🙂
XOXOXO!!!
Dear Lynn,
I say this with concern and love. I don’t think you should have any discussions with your husband about ANY of the insane things he does. He is playing with your head ALL THE TIME and it isn’t good for you. He is confusing you and hurting you every chance he gets….in P/A ways. You are providing him with far too much narc supply and that keeps them strong. And the last thing…well its more delicate and your decision BUT I would not be having sex with this dude. I would not do ANYTHING that might allow him to bind me to him emotionally because I am certain you are going to have to leave him, Lynn. Every time he opens his mouth I am more sure. Please take good care of yourself. Karen xx
Go to Walmart and buy a big cz with some colored stones, etc., something pretty but just bordering on gaudy and don’t answer when he asks where you got it…
Lynn,
Your h sounds like SLs and mine. So sorry! They are the ones who case studies are written about. The Walmart thing floored me! He’s a goner…….. I think I would tell him to take the gps and shove it up his ass and to never buy you a present again. You only accept gifts from gentleman. Then never buy him a gift again except make sure he has to pay your lawyer fees!
Love, NapKaren and NAP, (Diane, Sharron, and everyone else who has either stated or outright said “QUIT TALKING TO H” you’re right.
I keep telling myself no more interactions. No conversations, no sex, no nothing. I am so outgoing, though, the continuous silence kills me. If it weren’t for you ladies here on S.O.S. I’d be a goner. We are FAR from anyone and anything I used to enjoy.
Well, I do have the studio, but getting there, between lessons and activities for the children (homeschooling my 10yo son, 15yo daughter in high school and dance) is pretty tough. It’s hard to justify the gas to go there between their activities. It takes 10 mins to get there, 5 to set up, 5 to find something for children to do while we’re there that isn’t in someone else’s space, at least 10 to get my head into the proper place, then 10 to clean up, 10 to get home. So if i find an hour, I really have 10 minutes to paint or share with any other artists who may be there. Sigh.
So other than here, there’s precious little adult conversation going on.
I really am a whiner, geez.
Oh yeah, it’s NOT adult conversations with SA. It’s supply. Keep reciting that to myself, it’s not interaction, it’s supply. I am not a dealer, I don’t do ‘supply’.
I’ll do better. Chew gum or something.
Amen.
Karen’s so right on here.
Everytime you open your mouth, Lynn, you demonstrate that you have grasped and understood and every shitty thing he’s ever done. He gets the satisfaction of knowing everything bullet found its mark. And if one didn’t, he can go back and fire again.
It’s a new kind of masturbation for them—the humiliation game and you get to be the patsy.
He is playing with your head. Get out of his game.Geez this is insane. Good thing we have each other’s viewpoints to help find the way.
D.We can tell each other: Don’t talk to him, don’t sleep with him, don’t feed him, don’t do this or that. Everything is abstract when it’s someone else. I just played around on Facebook, because Lexie friended me, and I saw a couple of you were friends of hers too, so I looked at pics and saw lives, years of growing together, children, dogs, innocent moments before discovery, the tapestries that are our families–so long in the weaving. Now, I see others as real–not abstract, and it hits home, how human and heartbreaking. It is almost as hard to look at your pictures as it is to look at my own. And true, we have to cull all of this down to its true core: what it is, not what it was. But god it’s difficult, nearly impossible, when the very walls of our homes seem to weep with the history.
Wow, March….what a post and how true! The thing for me (and some of us) once we REALLY dug in to this and understood what we are dealing with- we realize it never even really “was”. For me, that is the most heart breaking part. 🙁 He was an SA all along. Sigh…..
Feel free to friend me off of Lexie! It’s under Patty Porten!
March, I completely understand your point. It is heartbreaking for me also. BUT the more I read on here what is being done to the other women, the more convinced I am that there is NO LEEWAY with these men. You cannot afford to soften UNTIL you are well out of their grasp? Then you can exercise your human compassion that they are empty souls. BUT IF you want to survive in the game they play you have to fight back! I do not mean to be histrionic but their goal is power and pain…pain inflicted on you in an attempt to gain power over you. They are consummate abusers and they batter with lies,with holding and head games. Treat them as you would any batterer…with contempt and a healthy distance. It is too dangerous to let them in your head, your body or particularly your heart…if you want to have a heart left to ever love with again? There is nothing abstract about what they do to us. It is real, horrific and methodical. They count on our humanity and our loneliness to make us vunerable and everytime you walk down the “But we had so many good times” you play right into their pathological little hands. You fight them by disengaging from the battle and you give them NOTHING. No supply negative or positive. Remaining neutral allows you to win the way Switzerland wins. Said with love and respect and as a weary fellow solider on this journey…. Karen xx
And the swiss are the happiest in the world…and have government health care…somehow they seem to make it work and they take care of their people.
Love,
FloraPerhaps the perfect spot for the next retreat?? Then, we’ll just all stay and never come back and live as one big, happy family of sisters. This is Z girls dream, lol…. And I have to agree!!! XO!
I love you Silver! You have to visit more often. Surely you are getting tired of all that sex and romance by now??? ;)Yours is a voice that needs to be heard over and over again by all the sisters because you and Diane are our voices of hope? I am SO HAPPY for you girl! Karen xx
Dear Lynn
I am so sorry your H did not gt you a present, and all the following drama that occurred. You know Lynn, even if you bought yourself something amazing, does it take any of the hurt away? I mean unless it’s a secondary home, bought in cash, just for YOU— forever, who cares. damage done. He blew it. Can’t really get Christmas back. He did what he did.
I am glad you were direct about your feelings, and being hurt about it. I mean what a battle. We say something, we are the bad guy, giving them a “guilt trip” in which case they will need to act out. WE say nothing, and we enable bad behavior by not addressing our needs and letting them get away with bad behavior, that caused us harm. I mean ugh.
Lynn, life with SA is FILLED with these hurtful moments, ruined holidays, etc. The days turn into years. You are early in this right? 1 year or so? How many more holidays like this would you like? They will keep coming. I say that with love.
Lynn, even my addicted, substance abusing, anger/psychotic/ railing, threatening – scare the sh*t out of me, bastard of an H bought me presents. And shut up for wknd for the sake of our six year old. I am ten years married. Disclosure 18 mos ago. Lynn, life with these guys are filled with moments of “anything to win us back” “begging us for forgiveness” “declarations of love”. Then, with the first oppty to show it, they blow it.
I wish this were different. sorry for your pain.Lynn,
My h didn’t get me anything either. 🙁 We’ve been married 20 years, and he has sporadically gotten me gifts over the years. I have tried to clearly communicate that it means a lot to me, but I was often told that I was selfish. It’s been a mixed bag. Sometimes he’s gotten me gifts, and they’ve been wonderful (and just the thought was wondeful!!) But then I get the selfish speech. I have gotten him gifts every year because it’s fun. This song and dance has happened with most holidays. I usually get a speech about how holidays weren’t important to his family (although I’ve seen home movies that appear to show otherwise. Who knows…)
I think with having a second d-day, I was kind of hoping he’d get me somthing…even something little…just to show he cares. I know I’ve been trying to remain detatched, but I haven’t done well with it these past few days. (To be honest, I didn’t get him anything…it was too painful to get a gift, knowing what was going on when I had gotten him gifts in the past.)
So I really think I’m just going to get myself something nice and tell him thank you…a new bag? Some jewelry? Whatever…I feel like I could just use a treat. I think you need a treat too.
And if you ever want to exchange flowers…wink, wink!!…I’m in!!!
Love you and thinking of you! Julieps, SL, I love how you remembered my vision of all of us living together in a happy commune one day. 🙂
Oh Zgirl,
Don’t you know by NOW that I hang on your every word?? Of course I remembered!!!Karen,
Thank you so much for your kindness, support, and genuine happiness for me. It means soooo much! I feel so blessed most days by the turn of events my life has taken! I would have never even dared to dream this a year ago! Although scars from 17+ years with SA will remain with me forever (and still very fresh), I do believe I can bring a message of hope and obviously, I’m never afraid to mention it. I want the same wonderfulness and happy ending for each and every sister. You will never know the possibilities of a hopeful future until you set yourself free. Very simple concept, very difficult execution-but worth the risk and pain.PamC- very nice post. I agree with you 100%! My SA ruined countless holidays for countless SA dumb fuck reasons. Sigh…. (and he was even a gift giver…. But unfortunately, a sneaky little asshole as well….)
It’s funny….but it’s also what makes the world go round…. I am talking about what each of us is willing to accept or not accept. Some women don’t really bat an eye being called a bitch (I have a couple friends who actually take that as a compliment, lol) Some will accept physical abuse, some won’t. On the subject of holidays and special occasions…. Some expect gifts, others do not. Just to be clear on this one- I expect gifts- and good ones too! And guess what? I always get them! It’s just one of those things that is important to me. And it’s not about the money or the material items….it’s about the thought. And I think this could fall under standards, expectations, tolerations, and setting the bar. We all must have high expectations and standards for the way we are treated by ourselves and by others. The gift giving/getting thing can provide a small example…. But obviously this can spill over to more important things in our lives as well… As in getting respect, faithfulness, loyalty, etc. We MUST be more insistant on how we want, need, and EXPECT to be treated. Anything less is simply not tolerated….not acceptable. We need to convey these standards to our partners and stick with our guns. (or consequences….which may still include GUNS), lol….
Just a little food for thought. Love to my sisters!!SL
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