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Karen
Karen is correct. Time does truly heal. We each go about our healing process iN our own way but that fog does eventually lift and the reactions do seem less severe over time
And each is here to listen to be a sounding board to answer from our own experience. Just the knowing there is shared experience here helps so much with the isolation. You will begin to engage in life again but it takes time and takes a little healing of you
Xxoo. Prayers, thoughts w youKaren,
Thank you for having the courage to share your story and seek help. I think I would be having all the same feelings you are having. It’s very hard to completely trust someone who has betrayed us so badly. It sounds like he is working his recovery for the past 5 months however that lingering unknown what the future holds is very difficult to live with. I think you description of somewhere between lost and found is so true. It’s really a good description. We are put into limbo land by all of THEIR choices; it’s very unfortunate and unfair. I think it’s important to always trust your gut. If this continues for you, can you live this way? It’s a very difficult choice and reality. You have gotten great responses, I hope you have found more clarity.
Love, NapPS. If he gets angry when you want to talk or ask questions, he still has defenses. In true recovery, he should welcome your needs and you should feel safe, he shouldn’t be getting angry.
Lynn,
Your story about comparing your journal with his disclosure reminded me of what I went through recently. I had to listen to my DASTBX’s secret recordings of me. Most were of me crying and being upset with him. I compared the dates of his recordings with is sex email account. It was eerie and chilling to hear my being upset with his detachment and his response (all the “I love you”s said very coolly, no validation or empathy) with the emails he would send the same days to prostitutes.
Yes, we are dead-on and do need to trust our guts. But reliving it like that in real time (replaying those conversations was like being there again, as I’m guessing readin your journal was like to) and knowing the truth really helped me to “get” the gaslighting in a way I didn’t really fully appreciate before. And I could put myself in his place, too. Hey, why listen to your whiny wife when you have some hot action to look forward to and all you need to do is fork over a little money, no strings attached. “Yes, Honey. I love you, honey. Will you just please stop crying because I’ve got to go get laid tonight.” That dose of reality really helps when I start second-guessing myself.
Karyn-
What he did to you is so wrong. And if your gut is saying something is off now, I would listen to it. His anger is a big red flag.Karen,
Your comments about the lack of feelings in his disclosure are right on the mark. To answer your question about counsellors helping with the disclosure – again, right on the mark. I found all 3 drafts of it….the first he wrote and emailed to counselor. The counselor edited sentences here and there and sent it back to him. Husband took that and added a little more and sent that second draft to counselor. Counselor refined it a bit more and sent it back. Husband included those edits and that third draft became the counselor-approved disclosure that husband read to me during the formal disclosure. I’ve had a chance to see from the email exchange of all 3 drafts how the final version developed. All the statements identifying how husband’s behavior put me, our family and his job at risk were counselor additions. All qualifiers that in any way minimized his behavior were removed. That bothered me because I felt the counselor was taking my feelings and right to know into consideration, but husband was just documenting facts. When he read the disclosure to me, I remember thinking that his voice was soft, but he expressed no emotion – no horror or shame at the reality of what he had done or how difficult it was for me to hear. Twice, I needed to leave the throw up. He politely sat waiting until I returned and picked up where he left off, still without change in his delivery.The comments to my post were so informative to me. I’ve read everything I could get my hands on from reputable authors and have learned much about sa and the partners’ ensuing trauma. But none of that came close to the actual voice of experience women here have shared.
I asked my husband about feelings last night. Feelings in general. Feelings specific to different aspects of our current situation. His response was alarming. “Karyn, you talk a lot. You say a lot of words. I don’t know what you mean half the the time. The best way I can describe my feelings is somewhere between Data and Dr. Spock. They’re very basic. Sometimes I wish I had human feelings…sometimes I think I do have some of them. When my mom died, I felt a lot of sadness and need for your comfort. When your mom died, it just felt like any other day. I couldn’t understand why you wanted me at the service. There wasn’t anything I could do there, so I went to work instead. I still don’t understand why that was such a big deal. It didn’t affect me so it made no sense to me that it affected you. That’s the best example I can think of to explain it. All this thinking has given me a headache and worn me out. I need to take some tylenol and go to bed. I love you. Good night.” (That conversation spanned about 20 minutes and it was 7pm.)
Basically, his feelings show themselves when he has a need. When all needs are met, he has no feelings that register at an identifiable level for him. This cannot be the way he’s been for the 25 years I’ve known him. I may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I certainly would have noticed this alarming deficit. On the other hand, I can look back to situations through the years that no amount of reasoning would cause him to engage at times I really needed him. I guess I justified it and excused it somehow. I don’t know. Time is going by and it seems one wall after another collapses to the floor. Pretty soon there will be no shelter at all. Scary as hell.
It is ALL about their feelings.. period..the end. I just had to face my parents and go thru this whole sordid story and I BURNED MY WEDDING ALBUM!!! Painful, very painful…
When I asked Mr. Sociopath what he thought I should tell my best friends ( I either lose them or I tell them something..) He cried because I might tell them the truth. He begged me not to… because it would embarrass HIM.
Every feeling he has is about him…. nothing to do with anyone else. They are all souless…
Karyn59 and all of the sisters who have written on this post.
This post and so many of your individual responses resonate so deep with me. I do not have the energy at the moment to respond to each of you, but just want to say thank you so much. Thank you for taking the time to write about your experiences and your feelings. It is so validating and through your words I am able to see more clarity in my situation.
When I respond to a post, I get so happy when someone replies back to me. I am feeling bad that I can’t do that right now for each of you. Each of your words and the time you have taken to share have changed my life and contributed to the healing of so many woman here.
Ok I just wanted to get that big piece of love for all of you out there.
Karyn59, because this is your original post I want to take a moment to shout out to you with warmth and big hugs as you battle through these moments. I really got an eery feeling when I read what you wrote about your husband having no feelings. It is so hard to come to an understanding that this is factual for them. I have dealt with this as well, and it is hard for me to come to terms with it. I continue to fight this to this very day. My intellectual side understands that he lacks this capacity, but my emotional side remains foggy about it. It feels weird to me that I wanted to believe that he was feeling the same kinds of things that I was, that I fooled myself into seeing what was not there. I think that is what you are saying when you indicate that you justified and excused his lack of engagement. Reading your words about his lack of compassion for you when you needed comfort when your Mom passed, helps me to see my situation with more clarity.
I must remind myself that what I was feeling during our 27 year marriage was REAL. I think that is sometimes what prevents me from being able to wrap my mind around the whole thing. If I was projecting what I was feeling on to him due to his inability to feel, was what we had real or not? The answer of course is yes, it was real. It was real for me. Whether it was for him or not is something that I have to let go. It hurts me to think of experiencing moments of our past and realizing that much of what I was going through, I was doing it alone. It makes me wonder what it would have been like to experience my life with someone who was present. It makes me sad to think that I have had this underlying sense that I was alone, but betrayed my own intuition and denied what was being presented to me. Why did I do this? Perhaps because if I believed that he was not really feeling what I was feeling it would make what I was feeling not REAL.
I think I am rambling again like I always do, and I don’t know if I am making sense. It makes sense in my own brain, so thanks for staying with me.
There is this very hurtful place inside of me that leaves a big hole of darkness wondering if I really allowed myself to interject emotions on his behalf to fill the void of reciprocation. That is a very deep thought and I wonder if any of you can relate to what I am saying? I think that this is the heart and soul of what is so painful inside of me right now.
Bless all of you.
Love, CindyDear Cindy… This may not help but children ( many times) will have “imaginary ” friends… It is very real to them and they finally outgrow it…They can also look back on their imaginary times and smile…
We have “imaginary” husbands…
Cindy, where you said, “It makes me wonder what it would have been like to experience my life with someone who was present,” this is so true. I remember Diane mentioning how different it was to be with someone who was actually present, when she was talking about her new man. I think many of us just unconsciously adapt to their lack of presence. We think that’s just the way it is, and it’s so easy to turn it onto ourselves..if we’re inclined that way, and I sure as hell am. Having a severe anxiety disorder, I could easily turn it on myself by telling myself, ‘Well, hell, I am so much in my anxious head that I’m not exactly 100% present myself, so what am I complaining about?’ And while that’s true in my case, at the same time, I told him about my anxieties and didn’t go ‘self-medicate’ them away by trolling for skanks. I was/am pretty much ‘what you see is what you get,’ a full-blown neurotic. 🙂 And when in a burst of affection I’d throw my arms around him, there weren’t any steps in between my affection and showing it. But with him, it always felt like there was something studied about a hug from him, if that makes sense. He recently told me that he can see that he does that. He was raised in a very weird cold household, so objectively I can see that it would be understandable that he does this. But at the same time, after learning about his secret strange life, I don’t think I can deal with that particular trait of his, even though to be fair, that part is not really his fault.
And I agree that this is a great thread, and am grateful to Karyn for starting it. I think it would be especially helpful to sisters who are trying to deal with how strange their SAs are in the aftermath of discovery, even if they feel as certain as they can be that their SAs aren’t ‘acting out’ any more. xoxo
Karyn,
I’m so sorry that you are going through the yin-yang thing. Do I stay or do I go……
Many of us need to listen to our intuition more. I know that I don’t – as I’m not sure of my own reality most times. And I don’t trust myself.
I think you need to figure out what will make YOU feel good – safe and happy. Now – that’s the hard part. Try imagining your life different ways – I know that opens up my mind to possibilities – and helps me figure out what is important to me.
Big hugs – we are all in your shoes (or have been there). I still haven’t gotten a disclosure from my SAH. It does sound that your SAH is in robotic, emotionless mode – the question is – can he ever get out of that? Make yourself a list of what you need/want – and a time limit of how long you are willing to wait for that. And the non-negotiables….
Big hugs
Deb
Karyn,
How long ago was your SAH’s poly? I know that Dr. Minwalla insists that the addicts in his treatment plan do a poly ever 6 months. Would that make you feel better re: your feeling that something is amiss?
Deb
Jesus, Karyn…..he is telling you how it is for him emotionally? Can you handle that sweetheart? Sounds like a lonely choice. If you want to have a marriage in name only (and thats ok-solves the finance and being alone issue…maybe even the no sex issue?)then this may work for you? But, if you want MORE than that….I don’t think he can give it to you. He doesn’t sound like he is very connected to anything but his OWN feelings and that is exactly what a narcissist is. They can feel their own pain…they just cannot relate to anyone else’s. You better think on it some more but try to stay with us. We do understand better than your husband OR his therapist…perhaps because we needed to. Love karen xx
Karen59,
my dear god, this trash disclosure is a brutal abuse, I dont know how did you sit through it, I felt like throwing up multiple times just reading it,
my heart is with you, and may your path be full of light and sunshine,,after all the darkness that this man let you live throughEverything I have read about full disclosures is that they’re meant to only include the facts and not emotions, they are specifically formatted that way so it can be polygraphed, in the form of “Was your full disclosure complete and truthful?” No polygraph examiner will ever allow emotions to be tested/included.
Karyn, my SA photographed me nude without me knowing while I was getting out of the shower. It hurts me so much that he could do that to me. I feel so violated. He would go on certain voyeur websites where sickos would post their partner’s photo. He swears he deleted the photos off his phone and never uploaded them on the internet, but gosh who knows.
ARGH!!!!
This is what people who have not lived through this don’t get. They hear “her spouse is a sex addict” and they think it’s all about them, their actions, and we should be able to either ignore it or get out. Bam! Decision made, story ended.
It’s not so cut and dried as them and us. Who could ever imagine how SAs violate US! And once they do, escaping it is so much more than just getting a new address.
Oh sisters, I lift you all up when I do my morning walks, I hope you know.
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