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Hi friends! Ugh, I feel like I”m always the person with a thousand questions–feeling very needy these days! Hopefully, soon, I’ll be the one with wisdom. So I brought up the prospect of full disclosure with my SA. (I’ll just put the abridged version of my “story” here). I discovered 2 years ago that he was acting out with prostitutes, via videos I found on OUR own home computer. He went to a therapist. However, 4 weeks ago, I had D-day, part 2, where I discovered a gmail account indicating he had never stopped acting out. In some ways I feel this second d-day was even more devastating than the first. I think it’s because I had years of feeling lonely, abandoned and distant. After the first D-day, I thought we were getting to a good place. So anyways, SA hubby has been in therapy since my discovery a few weeks ago. He also started attending 12-step meetings in our area. I’ve been feeling cautiously optimistic, but trying not to be naive. So long story short, even though I saw the videos on our computer, and the gmail messages, I feel like I need full disclosure from him directly. I brought up going to his next therapy appointment with him, and told him why I’d like to go. He immediately became defensive, and said that he didn’t know if he would tell everything. He also made the point that I wouldn’t be able to believe him anyway. What I can’t show you in words here is the desperatation and “skirting” behavior on his part. It was so recognizable and obvious, that I almost had to laugh. He said in these words, “I’ve been lying to your face, and you want me to tell you all the horrible things I’ve done. Why would you believe me, so what’s the point?”
I get that he’s defensive and ashamed, but for some reason (I guess because I’ve been an idiot in denial), I thought I’d seen the worst of it. There must be so much more I don’t know.
I had promised myself after the second d-day, that I would remain distant, and start to prepare myself for a life on my own. So I don’t know why I feel so horrible and devastated tonight. I also feel SOOO angry and so f-ing lost. So maybe I pushed him too hard, too soon…but this initially came to light 2 years ago. Any advice, comfort? Right now, I feel like I HATE him, and I know that’s irrational, and it scares me. Thanks, ladies, and XOXOZ-girl, you have every right to determine what you need from him to make this relationship make sense to you. If he is not willing, there is nothing you can do about that but it doesn’t mean that you adjust your needs for his comfort! I have been there where the SA skirts the issue because he is afraid of the last straw. My SA hubby agreed that I deserved to know everything and make it my call to stay or leave. He couldn’t change the past, but he owed me the truth, at least. I know he has tried, but I’m now insisting on polygraph because bravery is not his strong suit. I only want the truth at this point so that we have hope of the kind of true intimacy that only comes from baring your soul. If he’s not willing, I’ll never have that and neither will you if he withholds the whole truth about his behavior. Love and hugs to you
Thank you so much, Lylo. I’m so sorry you are in this situation too. None of us deserves this…thanks for the strength you are already giving me.
Hi zumbagirl,
My 2nd d-day was a year and a half after the first and I thought he was in recovery the whole time, too, and he never had been. Be strong, be firm, ask for what you need, and get it. Define your boundaries well. If he doesn’t like it he can live somewhere else not married to you and do whatever he likes. Make sure he knows that, too:)
Stay strong!
MarieWish I could help you with horrible, devasted, and f-ing lost… but you will come out the other side stronger and wiser, not ‘tougher’, if you are true to yourself and take care of yourself. You can be a positive force in his life but you can’t fix him. He has to really, really want to do that. Xo
Hi zumbagirl – You mentioned your’e hubby was in therapy two years ago. How long did he stick with it? I think the fact he has been deceptive and in an addictive addiction for the past two years does not give him a good prognosis.
I understand your need to have full disclosure, and that is part of recovery for an SA, You have the right to have it. However, your SA hasn’t even begun to to understand his addiction, and apparently doesn’t want too. At this point, you can only expect more lies from him – he has been lieing to himself and everyone else for so long that he will continue doing it until he is out of the denial stage and well into therapy. At this point, sounds to me like he is probably only getting invovled in 12-step and therapy for you.
I can understand your anger and frustration. You have every right to be angry. I am sure you feel like knocking his head off his shoulders – especially with the attitude he is displaying.
I went through 3 years of lieing and dececption. I separated from him x2 and am now filing for divorce. He was seeing a therapist, went to an Intensive Out-patient program and has been active in 12-step programs. The lieing continued until the day before I made the decision to divorce. I realize not every case is the same, but they all seem to show the same patterns.
I am just going to tell you like it is. I don’t think your’e husband is the least bit serious about getting better, and if I were you I wouldn’t stay with him. He has years of therapy ahead of him, and that is even pre-supposing he is serious about pursuing it. You will not see progress for a long time, and you will continue being hurt over and over again. I know we all have to come to terms on whether to stay or go in our own time, but I don’t think your’e husband has a chance in hell about being serious about recovery. Just my own opinion and am talking from my own knowledge and experience.
Wish I could be more positive, but most of us find out, after much trial and error, that a life-time process of lieing and addiction is very difficult to get over – (if ever) even in the best of circumstances, and that is when the SA is serious about recovery.
I know if will take time for you to work through this, and you need to take all the time you need to make an informed decision. Are you in therapy for yourself? If not, I suggest you do so to help your work through all of this.
I am so sorry you have to go through all of this. We have all been there, or are still going through the pain. We are all here for you,
Love to you.Zumbagirl – had to write this in a hurry, so hope it makes sense.
Hi ZG,
Full disclosure is such a private and personal decision. My SA has not given me full disclosure. His therapist has offered to have it in his office, but I declined. I decided that I had been through enough trauma with all of the knowledge I already had through my own investigating. The pain was so intense that I didn’t want to have to go through all of that all over again. I know he has done worse things than what I am aware of and I know he would give me full disclosure if I asked for it, but as my Mom always said “some things are better left unsaid”. I’m at peace with this decision and now I can work on healing and supporting him in his recovery. Who knows, maybe someday if we stay together forever he might just tell me on his own. I wish you all the best. I hate that we all have to go through this emotional hell. Please know that you are not alone. Do what feels right for you not for him.Thank you, cbslife! I think what is bothering me is that he outright said he might be unwilling to tell me. I think I had thought/wished it would be based on my discomfort, not HIS. And now I worry that even bringing it up and creating this stressful night will cause him to act out. I know I’m not in control, but I’m still in the habit of tiptoeing around, feeling bad, etc. etc. I just wish I were stronger/wiser…in time, maybe?
HI all – there seems to be a lot of us on the site tonight, so thought I would give an update just to let you know how long these guys stay in denial.
My husband told me he does not want the divorce to go through, and he intends to get over this before it does in 90 days. Ya. Right.
I really do feel bad for him – He is a mess. Lost 12 lbs. Crying
frequently and having anxiety attacks. It is very sad that someone can be so screwed up. But, all the more reason for me to have made the decision I did.
Hugs to you all.Thank you, also, Marie and Sharron. Sharron, yes everything made sense–thank you for taking the time to write so much. To answer your question, he was probably in therapy only about 5 months. Not nearly enough, but I was naive/stupid at the time! Also, part of it involved me–couples therapy–which I now know should not even have been addressed so early. Ugh, I feel like a horrible idiot. The hard part now is that I have a 17 year old and a 14 year old. The 17 year old is a jr in highschool–taking SATs, looking into colleges, etc. I just feel like I can’t disrupt their lives with a divorce right now. I feel like if I can just hang in here for a few more years, and be emotionally detatched, I can just get through til the kids get on with their lives. I have no idea what to do as of yet… š
Sharron–you must be very strong–is that just “you”, or did it come with time? I wish for that kind of strength. Want to sell me some? š Love to you.
Zumagirl – I have not been strong in the past. Everyone on this site knows how I was a “wigwomp” – Sitting on the fence and couldn’t get on or off. It took me three years to get here, and lots of pain and trauma along the way. I think we all wish so much that this is the one SA that is going to change and get better.I just finally came to terms that he was not going to get over the lieing/deception, and per his therapist has years ahead of him in terms of working on recovery. I just couldn’t do it anymore. So, don’t give me so much credit – it has been difficult for me, as it is all of us.
I guess that is why I am so opinionated when I see someone like you going through all of this, and I just don’t want you to prolong the pain – it just isn’t worth it.
My husband did not do near the things that so many of the SA’s I have read about on this site. His main problem was porn addiction-domination/submission and lusting after women. But nevertheless it impacted our marriage just as severely, because he was not able to show intimacy. I know if he had done what you say your’e husband has done, I would never had stayed. No-way No-How.
Good luck to you in working through all of this, and I know you will gain strength as you go.Zumbagirl-You have to do what is best for you. You say you need to stay in a few more years for the kids – that is well and fine if that is what you need to do, but can you really remain detached?? I doubt it. And how much emotional and physical pain will you have to go through in order to accomplish that goal? Just be sure you are not using that as an excuse to not move forward with a decision. Kids are much more resiliant than you think they are, and I would not be surprised if they aren’t aware they’re Dad has a problem. Kids don’t miss a trick. I am sure they can tell you are unhappy, and would not want to see you like that. I know when I went through my divorce of 28 years to the kid’s dad, they told me I was a wonderful mother, but they always knew I was unhappy. Kids are very perceptive. Plus, your’e husband surely isn’t a good role model for them, and that can take it’s toll. I am sure it would be devestating for them if they ever say what is on the computer. You do not want them to model his behavior. Just some thoughts.
Don’t feel like an idiot. We are all naive when it comes to the SA. They are great manipulators, fantastic liers, and masters of the game when it comes to deceiving and making us believe what they want us to. All of us have been there.
Hugs to you. I’m going to bed.Zumba… I was the “other woman” (one of dozens) with a sex addict swinger…(my predator) and that is a story I’ve told repeatedly on here and mostly on the mtasa site. And on my blog– ad infinitum. š Honey, you don’t want to know what he did. trust me. If he can’t tell you, then you don’t want to know. Painful doesn’t even begin to describe it and he can’t go there, and why do you want to? If you’re looking for motivation to leave, then just understand this much. Its real. He’s sick and he’s probably one of the unrecoverable ones (95% are) and then, steep yourself in this reality.
The question is… Do you want to stay with this sort of man? A lot of women do… and they look the other way or find their own affairs or whatever. I’m not saying that you should or shouldn’t. But that is why you feel so awful. Who wouldn’t? The choices are grim at best. Its like go down with ship or drown, or jump off… but into what?
I’m really sorry for your situation. Please don’t think of yourself as an idiot in denial. Hey… we all want to believe and that is a good thing. He betrayed your beautiful trust, over and over and over and for that he deserves to have his head bashed in.
I don’t have any intimacy with my husband, but I’m okay with that. We are great friends, and he treats me with a huge amount of respect and he is here for me and at this stage of my life, that is something I need more than anything… and my (tough to raise) kids are doing really well, at this moment in time… and so, I’m feeling so much better. I hope you will find a way to find your own peace too. best ~ L(PS: it took me a while and I still have tough times… but its a lot better now– at least the ocean of tears is down to an occasional trickle) š
Thank you so much–many wise word for me to think about. Sooo worried about the kids, but starting to see that maybe I’m keeping them in a worse situation. Hugs, Sharron. I’m off to bed too!!
reposting, because mine came in one second before yours… haha…
Zumbaā¦ I was the āother womanā (one of dozens) with a sex addict swingerā¦(my predator) and that is a story Iāve told repeatedly on here and mostly on the mtasa site. And on my blogā ad infinitum. š Honey, you donāt want to know what he did. trust me. If he canāt tell you, then you donāt want to know. Painful doesnāt even begin to describe it and he canāt go there, and why do you want to? If youāre looking for motivation to leave, then just understand this much. Its real. Heās sick and heās probably one of the unrecoverable ones (95% are) and then, steep yourself in this reality.
The question isā¦ Do you want to stay with this sort of man? A lot of women doā¦ and they look the other way or find their own affairs or whatever. Iām not saying that you should or shouldnāt. But that is why you feel so awful. Who wouldnāt? The choices are grim at best. Its like go down with ship or drown, or jump offā¦ but into what?
Iām really sorry for your situation. Please donāt think of yourself as an idiot in denial. Heyā¦ we all want to believe and that is a good thing. He betrayed your beautiful trust, over and over and over and for that he deserves to have his head bashed in.
I donāt have any intimacy with my husband, but Iām okay with that. We are great friends, and he treats me with a huge amount of respect and he is here for me and at this stage of my life, that is something I need more than anythingā¦ and my (tough to raise) kids are doing really well, at this moment in timeā¦ and so, Iām feeling so much better. I hope you will find a way to find your own peace too. best ~ L(PS: it took me a while and I still have tough timesā¦ but its a lot better nowā at least the ocean of tears is down to an occasional trickle) š
Thank you so much, Lexie. You (and everyone else) gave me a few tears tonight–but for once, the good kind. I have lots to think about, but am so grateful for the support of you ladies. I hope to be as strong as all of you one day. Maybe that will be what comes from this.
And P.S., someday, we all really need to meet up together. š Hugs and thanks to you, and goodnight!!Hi Zumbagirl,
My husband could not do recovery. I think he tried and hoped to, however, his addiction was too strong. He too was into real bodies either prositutes, casual sex sites, massage parlors, masterbation. He even skipped a 12 step meeting to meet someone for sex…once they advance to real bodies they are pretty far gone. Mine likely was doing it even before we got married. I love my h very much. I was always there for him through thick and thin and very devoted. It wasnt enough. The addiction won. Its very sad and true. He has alot of good qualities I love. I just cant handle being married to someone who is constantly having sex with other people. What I know hes done already makes me sick…I dont want to know anymore.Ok, Now after my bold and ridiculous reply on another thread (which hopefully won a few giggles), I now have tears rolling down my cheeks….for all of us…. this is so hard on us ladies (not to mention the kids and even the idiot SA’s) It is all so unfair. I hate it that we have all been going thru this and basically our choice is stay and live the life of not trusting, being our husband’s mother, practically, avoiding triggers ourselves, etc. Or, choice #2, we divorce our husbands of X many years whom we still love and admire for so many other reasons minus the SA. It makes me want to scream at the top of my lungs….. Not to mention the fall out we all deal with no matter where we are in this process….. for me it’s looking back over these 17 years, now that I know as of 3 months ago, and having a million AHA moments as everything starts to come together. What a strange scenario we have all found ourselves in. Sometimes, I feel like I married the devil himself!
Zgirl, I would like to talk to you on the phone sometime and hopefully offer some help or support. I actually hope to eventually speak to each of you at some time or another as I feel your joys and pain and truly (however strange it seems) feel like you are all the sisters I never had! Love to all and good night!
Hi Zumbagirl,
Just to speak from the point of view of a child whose parents are divorced, and to re-iterate what Sharron said. I’m the youngest in my family, and my parents waited until I was 18 (and finished highschool – I think that’s your senior high), before initiating the divorce. I know they had my well-being in mind and were doing what they thought was best for me, but I wish they hadn’t. Although there was some physical disruption with the divorce, the emotional disruption of them being together and unhappy was far worse for me. I know that I don’t speak for all children, as I am a particularly sensitive person, but I was aware of the pain they were both in (especially my mom) and I wish they had gone through with the divorce years before – when they started talking about it. As I said, it might be different for your children, but I don’t think that divorce is always as “bad” for the kids as people tend to think it is.
Much love,
LayaSilver-lining, Your first paragraph speaks right to my heart. Yes, we should talk! In fact, how cool if we could set up some sort of phone conference call service for this site! (JoAnn, are you listening, lol? :))
NAP and Laya, thank you–what you said helps a lot. I’m so full of indecision. Part of me still feels in shock. I think this recent “d-day” was more of a d-day than the first one. I don’t think I ever absorbed the reality at that time, and stayed in denial. So everything you ladies tell me keeps me grounded.
much love, ZumbagirlP.S. Am I the only one who has cried for 39 days straight? (Well, not all day, thank God, but I haven’t missed one, lol!) I feel like I should be committed.
Zumbagirl,
There is nothing wrong with hating your husband after what he has done. Actually I feel that is healthy, to not be angry for what he has done would be unhealthy.
You trusted your husband, we all did, because as far as we knew/know they were not lying to us. I thought that my SA husband was the most kind, truthful person. But unf. these guys already know, and they know that we will support them, and they know what they can get away with. We as women often project our values onto other people, and unf. in this situation is was not wise. We loved/love our husbands and thought this was a true and honest relationship, two meeting of the minds coming togetehr. But it was not. One was honest, the other living a life of lies and deception. I had a d-day one of which i discovered things, and then he said he would get better on his own. Was attending therapy but did not want to go to 12 step. He said he could beat this on his own, like all his other addictions (LOL, who knew, not me??). Anyway three months of this went by, I was hopefull and optomistic that he was 100% sincere about this and trustworhty. I was happy that we were beating this together and doing this as a couple, and I was here if he needed me. Well fast forward three months. I had installed a monitoring software on the computer. Found him viewing porn while wathcing our daughter, hours a day, in plain site in our living room. I continued to try and support him, and try to live free of emotion. But it was not possible for me. I grew ever resentful and hatefull, to the point where I just did not want to see him anymore. I kicked him out 6 months later, after recalling I found a prostitues call card in his wallet year ago, he had some lame ass excuse (but no more for me). My thoughts on disclosure are this. I was willing to give him time to get it all out in the open. I could then accept or reject what he has done, and make my decision for me (but my SA has never given a disclosure, he has only admitted to what I have found). I think for some of us, we really do want to know the whole truth. In getting the whole truth not only do you find out what he has done, but also what he might do again in the future. Past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior. Granted an SA in recovery has better odds, but truely he will fall of the wagon most liekly again, and i feel that i need to know what that would consist of, and decide if that is something I can deal with or not. It took me over a year to reach my decision. It takes time for everyone to reach a point as to when they know what to do. This site is very helpfull in getting you there sooner, reading everyones story and giving advice. Reading and participating here, means you are no longer in the dark.As for laya said it is not necessarily a bad thing to get divorced. The age your kids are at, may have little impact. You just never know. The damage from my childhood mostly came prior to my parents divorcing as well, similar to laya. Then my mother was so obsessed to find the next husband, she was never home or suporting us later either. Really take a look at your family unit and see how it is functioning. Who takes the resposibility for what, what are the kids gaining, how much is he a participant in their lives, is he a good participant, who is bearing the load, is it equally destributed or are you overcompensating. Quite often parents in an unhappy relationship are not as good as parents as the could be as they spend so much time obsessing over the decision or the situation. Seperate they may be great parents. I hate that there is such stigma to divorce. Bad decisions are made every day, but marrying the wrong person has such lasting effects.
I was worried to make my decision. I was worried I could not make it on my own, that I would not be able to buy our house. That I would not be able to support us financially on and on. Fast forward over the past couple months I have got a pay raise, and benefits from my current job, i called a divorce attorney who so far seems fantastic, the SA appears to want to get the divorce over quickly, and appears will agree with most/all of what I want, and I can be approved for a mortgage to buy our home, by myself. I could not be happier. I guess what i am saying, is that sometimes our fears are not true, but keep us stuck. We also may feel guilt over leaving someone who is trying hard, but time will tell. But we all just don’t want to see you waste your life. Goal number one is to reach some kind of arrangment where you are happy in your own home and life with him. If you can acheive this somehow, then stay. If you cannot, self sacrifice will not bring a happy life for you, nor will living your life for others.
I wish you strength and courage. Hugs ((((()))))
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