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Anne, you are not paranoid and he is not telling the truth!! My h never admitted to anything that I did not already know. We had a few small ddays where I would find out something but he never admitted to being an SA and minimized what I did find. Then one day I found 46 reviews he wrote about his prostitutes. He finally admitted being an SA, only because I had proof. He swore I knew everything then two weeks ago I found his Craiglist account with 27 discusting ads he placed. They don’t give anything up, their mantra is lie, omit and minimize.
Anne, I understand your plight with having small children. It’s confusing because on the one hand you could move on without him, yes with difficulty but with an ultimate goal of peace for your life. OR stay with him for the children’s sake and see how it goes. It’s a line in the sand for me. I feel I have to have tried everything before I walk away. Otherwise I will always wonder did the family “have” to break up..could it have been saved. I think you need to try in your heart but when it’s enough…and you only know when that is….then you can’t stay in an abusive relationship. The children will sense that when they are older. My oldest is 10 and she knows something is “up” so to speak. I get concerned for that and down play as much as possible.(mom and dad’s secret/quiet conversations in the other room)
It’s fine to give it a go for the sake of the family and the kids but it is NOT fine to let them continue down their addict path and blow the kids apart later. We all want to feel like we gave our best (whatever that entails) but we do NOT get to protect our feelings and use the kids. If you are sincerely doing this for the kids then your number one goal is to get that man help. Whatever it takes. Even if he takes the help and leaves you. These guys are warped. They need help big time. If you want a snowball’s chance in hell of making them into decent fathers then you have to be the strong one.
Don’t misunderstand me. I am all about us getting help. I care about us. I do care that these guys will continue to gaslight and fake shit and hurt you again and destroy their kids in the process. We cannot fix them. Our love cannot fix them. It takes a talented professional to even get thru to them.
My H got help because I was serious about the intensive with Minwalla or divorce court. I knew I was over my head. I never kidded myself that I could save him.
I want to echo what Bev is saying – I have young children too and the desire to keep the family “intact” for their sake is very strong. However, if their father is living a double-life – he may be physically present but he is not “there”. We kid ourselves at the expense of our children when we think otherwise. I’ll never forget what one of the sisters told me one time – and it was early on in my journey but it has stuck with me – she grew up in a household of secrets and that is incredibly damaging. She is still dealing with issues of the secrets her Mom kept in her attempt to protect her children. Now, I’m not necessarily advocating on telling the children what is going on (that is a debate for another thread) but my point is that you need to protect YOU first and then the children will in turn be protected, if that makes sense.
And, Anne, what Donna says is so true. You are not paranoid – you have these feelings for a reason and he should not be denying or minimizing your emotions. That is what is so incredibly valuable about this site – you start to see the patterns in their behaviors and the things they say and realize their tactics for what they are – sophisticated tactics designed to keep you on the hook.
Kmf – you’re right. Distance is not a long term solution and we are coming up against that issue now. He says doing it “my way” (aka: living in another state, giving him time w me, making sure he regularly sees the kids) isn’t working and th solution is for us to spend MORE time together – in other words, for me to move back. I guess I’m just scared to throw the “Minwalla card” as I think he will deny he is an addict and I do wonder if he really is an addict? He seems to have stopped? As you can see I keep going around and around on this issue…
Donna – I’m so sorry you had to go through that. I’m waiting for the other shoe to drop. He may not be acting out now out of fear? But I would bet anything there is a lot more to his history. It’s validating to hear that not admitting anything unless the proof is put in their faces is a pattern for these scumbags.
Bev – I guess there is still a part of me that wonders if he really is an addict. As I write that I know it sounds ridiculous but I still wonder. Anyway, I will do whatever it takes to protect my kids. And if that means giving my husband an ultimatum about Minwilla then I will do it. I guess I just want to be sure that this is the right path before making the leap.
Feelingconflicted – What if the double life is over? What if he really has turned over a new leaf? I just have no evidence to the contrary and I just so desperately want to believe that he really has seen the light. But I also get and feel that a guy who trolls for, seeks out, and has sex with prostitutes is by definition pretty effed up. And I don’t think that gets fixed overnight. Even with divine intervention (which by the way my h says he experienced the night I left).
I got the ‘I found God’ speech too. Your H may or may not be an addict. I don’t know but NEITHER DOES HE.
Why don’t you call Minwalla and talk to him. He would be the first person to tell you if you are dealing with an addict or just a pervert asshole. The call is free. It can’t hurt.
I wouldn’t be too fooled by the fact that he just quit. They all “just quit” when they are scared. That does not mean that he will remain “sober”.
There are two types here that most of us question regarding addict vs not an addict.
It is this-are they an addict or are they just selfish, narcissistic, pieces of crap?
I lean more toward the latter with mine even tho mine has admitted he is an addict and sought counseling but on his terms. When I say on his terms, I mean that he won’t find a CSAT because according to him a CSAT won’t tell him anything the family therapist who has no formal training in sa hasn’t already told him. That was another GIANT RED FLAG to me when he said that last month.
Really?!?! Minwalla will do a free initial assessment? That’s pretty amazing. Do I have to ask my h to talk to him or do I? Thank you Bev.
And if I talk to him – all I can tell him is what I know and I don’t think I know everything. How does he determine who is a perv and who is an addict?
Anne, Minwalla has so much experience with this. He does not have to talk to your H at all. He will gladly talk to you and he can see thru everything your H is saying right now. He is safe and non judgmental. He is easy to talk to and he will tell you the truth. No matter what the situation with your H is and no matter what you decide to do about it, you need help for yourself. Good help from someone who knows this stuff. Call him. You will be glad you did.
Yes, and the receptionist ( I can’t remember her name) will set up a time for him to call you so you can be free and prepared. You need to hear what he has to say. It may be that your H is just a plain old cheater but that doesn’t mean that you should live with it without him getting real help…..
In the meantime, go read Chump Lady. She has a lot to say about cheaters. I think you’ll like her 🙂
I definitely second that about reading Chump Lady. She is a no-bull-shit type of gal and I always find her posts insightful.
And, Anne, it’s totally normal to be questioning all this. I think you need to give yourself the luxury of time. Let’s see if your h. can go the distance. If not, that will reveal itself soon enough. I remember back in the fall, when I thought we were working towards “reconcilliation”, my biggest worry was that we’d work through the current D-Day stuff and be fine and bam! 5 years later he’d be at it again. But funny how things turn out, I didn’ have to wait very long at all to see some of the behavior patterns start to show and of course, I found evidence due to my hyper hypervigiliance (which I do not recommend) that indicated/proved he had slipped right back into his old ways.
Christine, I laughed out loud (literally) at the recent post where everybody was writing the “profiles” for their cheaters…..Too damn funny.
Bev and Christine – I have been reading Chumplady non stop since I got your messages. She is amazing. The post about five reasons one gets stuck deciding whether or not to leave a cheater is so on point. I’m so very grateful for your support and help through this. xoxo Anne
I hadn’t read CL yesterday….omg…hilarious! I think we should start a thread on SOS of our SA’s dating profile!
Hi Anne,
Just catching up on this and want to add…it really does not matter if your H is an addict or not because if he isn’t an addict he is probably something worse such as a narc (a REAL ONE ) or is coping with some other mental illness or is REALLY not a nice man which usually means one of the former. It isn’t normal to use hookers..I don’t care what anyone says. Maybe it is the new way but I doubt it. We are NOT living in the 17th century. Normal men get a friggen girlfriend, bang the secretary or pick up some bar fly. Perverts use whores. Thats my humble opinion. I really think u should talk to Minwalla too. He is the expert and will give you professional advice and we have had enough dealings with him to think he is sane and trustworthy and smart. Hugs, karen
I LOVE the chump lady. 😉
You just make me smile, Karen. You are totally right. Only a freaking weirdo ogles, pursues, and then has sex with hookers. And he was doing this before we were even engaged. While we were dating and in the google eyed, in love phase of things. For ten effing years. Oh, he only actually had sex with prostitutes six times, the majority was “just looking.” But my gut says that is total horse sh&t. I am almost seven months in and I still can feel such intense rage and disgust.
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