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I had my first session Tues with our therapist since kicking H out on Mar 10th. I stayed home from work again (been depressed) so I figured I’d ask and she had a spot so I went, albeit looking like a homeless person but hey I showed up!! She seemed concerned that I hadn’t really made any head way in making any decisions one way or the other as far as reconciling or ending it. She thinks the “limbo state” that I’m in isn’t good for me. I told her I do not want to be pressured into getting him home like I felt last year when I kicked him out. She said she feels like she’s dug deep enough with questions to H to believe his pa has been strictly viewing (movies, erotic books, video) and H has had no encounters physically with any women. During all my “surveillance” work with the phone, the computers and tracking his car I never believed he did either. There just wasn’t anything to send up a red flag that any physical encounter occurred, there wan’t even any chat/im ever one time on the eblaster reports. I told her that while I do believe his pa has been strictly “in house”-that’s my term for just the visual with no encounters-it’s hard for me to fully defend him at times to others or even on this board. That’s because so many women on here have husbands who are way, way, way into worse pa than my H like CL whores, affairs, casual sex, etc. I told her my H pa is minor league compared to many other women whose husbands are into major league hard core stuff. She said whether it’s minor league or major league the damage and destruction done to women and our marriages are in no way to be excused or diminished just because one man’s pa isn’t as severe as another man’s pa, the hurt and pain is still the same. I just feel foolish at times defending my H to certain people in my inner circle or on this board because I know some think if H has a pa it just HAS to include whores, affairs or casual sex. Here’s my disclaimer tho: I know that in sharing with others I open myself up to receive support as well as opinions and I welcome those because some come from experience while others come from a place of support with no experience. The dr also said I didn’t look good and missing work here and there due to depression was not good. I have an appt Thur with my m.d. to get back on my Lexapro for a time to get me over this hump. I briefly needed them 4 yrs ago and it was a lifesaver. When I say depression I’m not talking harming myself, I’m talking no energy, could sleep all day, just not giving a shit in general and it has become an event just to freaking brush my teeth twice a day. My shower today that I need to take before I meet with our church deacon later tonight about all of this will be my first shower in 3 days……eewwww blec!!! I know what you are thinking. Anyway the dr thinks if I think I may want to reconcile than I should consider moving in a direction of contacting H and not by text to begin talking. If I think I want a divorce then I need to move in the direction of healing from this. I told her that everytime I think about possibly calling him I picture what he’s going to say (because we all know what he’s going to say!!) and for everything I know he will say the response in my head is “but for how long?” and it keeps playing like a broken record. The dr did tell me she believes he is truly remorseful, truly sorry for the pain this has caused me and my kids and about every session he cries explaining something to her. I reminded her that these were all the things he said and did last year and while I TRULY 100% without a doubt believe he is doing all those things again that he stopped doing last April (counseling, group, purity pledge, bible study) and is re-committed to getting help all I could say to her was “But for how long this time?”
Dear For-Now.
I am so sorry for what you are going through. I just want to agree with the therapist on the point that minor or major league–the devastating effects and the dishonesty and betrayal are the same, as evidenced by how you are feeling.
Until this last fall my husband had “only” done cyber and phone sex. It felt like a terrible betrayal and had huge negative effect on my self esteem as a woman and sexual being. But who knows, even though I thought it was a serious problem, maybe I stayed because I trivialized it in my own mind. We had four separate d-days over the last 10 years, and each time i believed he was sorry and understood the pain it caused me and I believed in his committment to stop. The last time was just horrible and I left to stay with family. I needed space to get away and he said he needed to work on himself. That “work” took the form of sex hookups with 6 strangers and a case of herpes. I believe that men can only play in this for so long before they are going to escalate–is is simply too easy and too tempting. My husband met single women for free on dating sites. Is that better then meeting with prostitutes? Im not sure…he had to lie and weasle and pretend he was someone he isnt–more of the same pathological behavior he has with me.
Im not trying to rip your husband down. In fact, I just posted yesterday that I myself have been resisitant to advice on this site because deep down I have though that MY husband was different, and that the women here dont know HIM. But the clearer I get and the more honest I am with myself it is pretty apparent that what they describe is CLOSER to who is is than what I am projecting onto him. he throws me a crumb of regret and I lap it up and am right there to support him again.
Im in my own therapy as well as couples counselling. I havent filed for divorce, and still have the door open to my husband. But my eyes are really being opened here. At first I thought maybe I had joined the “she woman man haters club”–not really, but I did really think maybe some of the women here were jaded and their judgement was clouded by resentment. Dear god–now I feel certain, that I am the one whose judgement was clouded–clouded by attachment, pain and the fear of losing something that was never more than a figment of my wishful thinking and imagination.
I know I sound jaded…but I think I am closer to you than you might guess…I hope you stay here and continue to post. I hope you find it helpful and supportive no matter what you do. Hugs to you!Dear For Now,
I am glad that you have an intelligent therapist. And I agree major league or minor league, trauma is trauma. And you are suffering the result of betrayal, loss, hurt and pain.
I feel badly that you feel “less the right to be angry” just because your H did not physically act out. No matter what the degree, it is all addiction lies and betrayal.
In some ways for-now you have a harder challenge in my opinion. For those of us with H’s that are over the top with Ho’s , casual encounters, etc– there is more concrete evidence, behavior to call attention to.
For those addicted to porn, the denial can run deeper. I am only viewing. I never actually cheated. I mean it’s like you have to “prove” you were betrayed. on top of all the pain. Which of course you don’t. But the SAH can make you feel like you do. For those H’s who got caught physically acting out, well, they can try and deny argue, but there’s not much to say.
You have been betrayed and lied to and cheated on by someone you love deeply. There is no bouncing back to health in a quick manner. but it will, and can get better.
If I gave the impression I will pull back from here because of anyone’s opinion I didn’t mean to. I really see it as experience talking when I hear something I don’t want to hear or maybe makes me uncomfortable. I KNOW the women here KNOW what they are talking about because they live it, day in and day out as I do-it’s just different levels for each of us. I was bothered last night that while texting H I said “porn has ALWAYS been a part of our marriage and has been your “other woman”, so to speak, it’s just that I was unaware of it for the first two years because I had no experience with any sex addiction.” His response was “No, that’s not true. It hasn’t always been a part of our marriage.” I thought what the hell kind of planet is he from? His denial of that one FACT alarms me. It’s the diminishing game, I know it well.
and Bonnie, you don’t sound jaded. No one on here sounds jaded to me. I hear fed up, aggravated, disillusioned and destroyed at times in reading the various posts but never jaded.
Pam, thanks for what you wrote. If I remember correctly I think the dr even said while we were discussing minor v major league differences that the visual pa recovery is actually easier to overcome than if say he had a physical encounter or an affair. I don’t see how the visual is easier when its freaking everywhere…….movies, tv, on billboards, mail ads that come, catalogs that come, in public just being around other women like at restaurants or parties…….its everywhere………I don’t see how its any easier to overcome than seeing a pros or having an affair.
HI for-now,
You are in a bad spot. I remember talking to one woman (a CA in a big firm downtown here) who stayed in the same jammies for an entire week, ordering out for food and watching tv all the time. She simply imploded and that was her week. You aren’t crazy, you are traumatized and feel very unsafe. I understand why you may feel uncertain about where the next shot is coming from. I understand completely. In the early weeks someone dropped a jar of pickles in the Safeway and I ran crying from the store. I just felt so unsafe everywhere—my whole sense of safety and security in this world had been undermined at its core, and I had to begin to build a new core—a new safe place that I controlled. And I grieved mightily (and still do) about losing the safe place that was my core.As far as what exactly our SA/PDh’s are doing goes, it is an unfortunate fact that the addiction/compulsion escalates. It does not plateau. It escalates. How it escalates and at what rate may vary from person to person, but the fact of escalation is real. Intervention and programs and therapy can stop that escalation process, if the person is committed to change and recovery, and learns to self-regulate.
I”m truly sorry if me sharing that information is upsetting, but I think you deserve to know how this whole thing works.YOu can’t build a safe place if you don’t know where the land mines are.
lots of light, and I believe in you,
Diane.Diane, you have said what I continue to say to him and the therapist. There is escalation to this and I take that seriously yet H swears that’s just a line for him that he refuses to cross and assures me that will never ever ever happen. I’m sorry but that gives me no comfort whatsoever. Everything I’ve warned him about or feared might happen has happened so far. falling off the wagon, hiding things from me, needing professional help yet not going, being unable to do this by himself while he claims he’s doing fine, not calling me as he promised when he felt the urge, bringing an erotic porn book into my house after I clearly said no porn of any type and that it was not to happen again…….all this crap has happened since I tried to tell him/warn him last year. It’s like the thief giving out pointers on how not to steal as he loads up his pockets with other people’s shit. It’s hard to put any stock into what he’s saying.
btw Diane- LOVE the land mine reference and taking a shot…….its true I cannot build on land where there are land mines and I worry constantly from which angle the next shot is coming from.
It sounds to me like the therapist is not understanding you have PTSD. You can’t be expected to believe anything from him, nor should you. Your whole therapeutic journey should be about recovery from your trauma, telling your story, understanding and recognizing your symptoms and your triggers for PTSD episodes developing self-soothing techniques (B. Steffens book helped me with this–they sound doinky but they actually work), rebuilding your safe place–without him–you can invite him to join you in life, but your safe place has to belong to you.
That’s what I’m leaming toward. The dr said whether we stay together or not forgiveness should come at some point and I agree. I have been able to do that with others in my life. But I am going to steer the ship for awhile. I’m not agreeing to anything that doesn’t feel right. If we start talking or having dinner it will be on my terms. He will have to understand that and respect the consequence of living at his parents in the interim. If I choose to invite him over to see the kids or just hang out with us he’s going to have to understand it’s simply that. I refuse to give him false hope on moving back home when I’m unsure myself at this point. If I feel the need for sex then he will have to understand not to read anything more into it unless I tell him otherwise. I’m not going to feel guilty if this separation lasts several months. If I invite him over when the kids are gone and he ends up staying at my request he’s going to have to leave in the am when I leave for work. Thinking of having these boundaries clearly in place makes me breathe a little easier.
Hi For Now,
I think your boundaries sound great- really healthy. And you sound like you are in a strong place and able and willing to enforce them.
For-now, I wish I had done what you are doing in the beginning. I stayed due to finances, and felt lack of power to do anything. Some physical seperation early on would have done a world of good, I think. I am really glad that you are able to do that for yourself and children. You are doing great.
btw — i hope I didn’t come across poorly–. I just happen to be one of the wives whose H has been really over the top. I am sensitve to that, and just would not want you or anyone to feel that their problem/pain is somehow different because of viewing. Meant with love and support, and did not mean to come across otherwise. I am glad for your post.
Pam, you did not come across poorly and you did not offend me in any way. 🙂 Thanks for your thoughts, to Diane and Bonnie as well!
I remember last year when we were separated he came over, we went out to dinner, kids were gone and later we hit the sheets and man did I need that!!! Anyway, the next morning he mentioned going to his parents to get his stuff. Talk about awkward, I had to explain to him that yes I wanted sex but no, moving home was not the hidden meaning of it. That boundary will clearly be in place before that happens again. ha!!
This one of the pitfalls for men when they go to SAA. They hear stories so much worse then theirs and think, “I’m not THAT bad” and the superiority complex kicks in.
All that matters on here, on SOS, is how WE feel not what THEY did. We are all in the same boat.
I don’t think that just because he was looking at porn it means he MUST have done worse things.
But I do think, as with any addict, if things aren’t stopped, it will escalate. I’m sure nearly everyone of or H’s started with “just porn.”
I do agree that limbo thing is going to emotionally drain you.
If he can make an imaginary line and not cross it.. why hasn’t porn been on the other side of that line?
Ugh, Kim so true. My SA just felt he didn’t fit into his SAA group of depraved individuals. He just could not believe THOSE losers and their sad lives. Whatever.
Kim, that’s what I’ve asked myself……H has been very disciplined not acting out when the kids were here. He only seemed to do it when they were at my ex’s. So if he exercises self control in regards to the kids and his job then why the hell can’t he exercise it with porn in general?? I guess its like the functioning alcoholic type scenario……if that even makes any sense.
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