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One of my H’s big issue is that he never tells you how he feels about anything. It makes him “appear” easy going and agreeable but really he is just passive aggressively pissed at you. So he has been trying to “do better. “
First, let me say that “doing better” means he is going to come tell you something and first he always gives a beating around the bush 10 minute prelude to whatever he wants to discuss. You have no idea what it is. Is he pissed at you? Is he is going to confess another secret? It’s a very long anxious 10 minutes for me.
Then he gets to the point. And you’re going to listen for an undetermined amount of time, given no time to respond until he is done. You are to sit quietly and respectfully and not interrupt. Could be 10 minutes. Could be an hour.
Finally you are given a chance to respond but the second you utter a sentence that he doesn’t like, he interrupts. Talks over you and dominates the conversation again.
Today it was an 8 minute prologue followed by 10 minutes of him stating his feelings. He told me he woke up pissed and knew he needed to get it off his cheat otherwise he’d be a dick to me for the rest of the day in his passive aggressive way. Me having no idea why.
He made it very clear he just wanted to state how he felt and get it off his chest. He didn’t want an argument. Translation: he’s gonna vomit up all this bullshit and you shouldn’t comment. Because he doesn’t give a shit what YOU think.
So after his 18 minutes he finally announces be was done and be felt better already. I’m of course pissed at the content of this “talk.” I had so much to say and didn’t know where to begin. So I started with, first of all, the whole declaration of you talking and me listening and nothing more is more self serving BS. That took me less then a minute to get out and then for the next 3 minutes he argues with me about the one sentence I was allowed to say. The whole time him being an ass and saying, “see I tell you my feelings and you critique me instead of telling me what you think.” THIS IS WHAT I THINK.
During the 4 minutes he keeps sarcastically saying, “I’m still waiting to hear what you have to say.” I’d get three words out and he’d say the sentence again. This happened a few times before I finally said, “I have nothing to say. You are going to interrupt me and be angry at ANYTHING I say. Even if I tell you you’re right, you’ll be mad because you know I’m patronizing you”
He jumps up and is screaming and swearing at me. Then storms off. He storms back 30 seconds later to yell and scream some more. Storms back out. Comes back in 30 seconds continuing his tantrum. And of course yelling, “I’m never telling you my feelings again. All I ask for is a little patience” I responded. “listen to yourself screaming at me. And you think ‘I’ need patience???
Finally I grabbed the car keys and left. Because its the only way to get out of the situation. I know him… He’d have kept screaming.
Now he wants to “talk” about it. I simply told him he’s said more then enough and it’s time to just shut the fuck up. So we’re not speaking.
I am soooo tired of dealing with an adult with the emotional maturity of a 5 year old. I want to pull all my hair out.
And the kicker is… For all of his claims that he is trying to make an effort to express his feelings because he never does… The topic of conversation was his daughter. Who can do no wrong. She has been the topic of dozens of arguments. He has never had a problem expressing his feeling about her. When she breaks a rule it’s like talking to her lawyer because all he does is defend her. So him coming to me pissed about something concerning her daughter is NOTHING NEW.
I’m so friggin irritated. And I refuse to stand there and be yelled and sworn at like a child. Which is why I left.
I’m really sorry you’ve had a stinker, Kim. I don’t know what I can say except I don’t feel too good about the dynamics you’ve laid out. I understand it’s all very raw right now. Breathe. You’ve got to give yourself a little time. Is this a one of a kind encounter, or is this something that keeps happening? I know you are trying to keep this homefront moving forward. Do you think you could get some help from the therapist on your communication troubles?
Meanwhile, hang in there and don’t give up on yourself. You will find your way.
D.Thanks Diane. No. Not a one time encounter. It’s a frequent scene around here ever since his secrets came out. If a conversation doesn’t go his way… He has a tantrum. And he thinks because he’s “opening himself up” that I should be in a glorious state of joy regardless of the content of what he is saying.
I am definitely mentioning it to his therapist. I know she was going to go over the proper rules of communication with him the last time this happened. Not sure if she hasn’t yet or if he has just disregarded what she said.
Kim, sometimes you need virtual space from each other to re-set your communication. Maybe for a short while you could have a moratorium on verbal communication and only text or leave notes about essentials. It’s so hard when the physical separation isn’t possible and we try to wade through the toxic remains of the dysfunction. You’re a brilliant woman and he can’t seem to dominate the conversation effectively. Stay strong. Xx
Communication is a two way street otherwise it’s a monologue. Keep being strong Kim and don’t tolerate it. What hes doing shows total disregard for you.
Love, NapOMG Kim, I couldn’t believe your description of your conversations with him and how they start out. It’s exactly the same thing with my H. For the life of me I don’t know why he can’t start a conversation with the subject matter first.
He always starts in the middle of his thoughts and then works his way around the bush getting ever so closer to what he is actually talking about (which at that point, I’m still guessing what the hell he’s talking about) Half the time I get frustrated and interrupt and say “what are you talking about?” Then he acts surprised that I wasn’t able to read his mind and follow his train of thought. And he can’t seem to understand why I’m frustrated. Communication has always been an issue with us. I’m not sure if both of us have trouble with it or if it’s just him because I don’t recall ever having trouble understanding others like that. Just him.
I know he’s constantly thinking and perhaps he just blurts out in the middle of a though process thinking that I already know what he’s talking about. Almost like he thinks I was a part of his thought process so I should be up to par on the conversation!
I also think that you two need some silent time. If at all possible try to refrain from any major conversations. Maybe if you feel the need to discuss something in depth, write a letter. And that goes both ways. That way you can sit and read, re-read, and process your thoughts before responding. Sometimes we speak before thinking.
I’m so sorry that you are going through this. Please know that I’m sending positive thoughts your way and I hope the very best for you.
The feelings that he needs to express are about him or him and you, at this point. Any other topic is a DISCUSSION. If its not a discussion, then who gives a shit HOW he feels? That’s the distinction, IMO. And he also needs to convey his feelings and thoughts in a constructive, considerate way, in a back and forth conversation, not an never-ending diatribe as if you weren’t even there.
Otherwise, its known as a sermon. right?
Its so depressing when a narc gets a wee bit of knowledge and then distorts and twists it, so that the idea then becomes something unrecognizable.
If you have not read it I highly recommend reading the article in the forum A Must Read. It describes the speech patterns seen. This article perfectly describes many of the behaviors we see with our SA. The garden variety sociopath/narcissist. It’s an excellent read.
Except for the preamble, this is the same type of “conversation” we have around here. When I ask him to talk to me, to let me in, what I’d like to get from him is stuff about his history, his childhood, what he thinks of the world his child is growing up in, his view of god, how he feels about me, sorrow or regret about what he’s been doing all these years, his vision of the future for this family…But when he gets it in his head to do the favor of sharing his thoughts, it’s always about how the house is bothering him (how he wishes I would wash the baseboards), how he can’t keep up with the maintenance and is getting overwhelmed (Should I mention that for the ten years he was acting out, there WAS no maintenance–hence…). Or it’s about how we’re “bleeding money,” that I’m spending too much on groceries (I’ve had the same grocery budget for 12 years). And, yes, I’m supposed to be GRATEFUL he’s “telling me how he feels.” Frankly, I don’t give a shit how he feels about those things. If he wants the baseboards clean, he knows where the 409 is.
What kind of miracle would it be if he came to me one day and said, “You know, Tania, now that the holidays are here, I was thinking about how difficult that first Christmas was for you and how I did nothing to help…”I guess in hindsight it may all seem petty in light of his sex addiction. But I swear the little things are adding up. He seems to be experiencing an emotional roller coaster in recovery. I’m almost tempted to tell him to just go act out please.
I spoke to him briefly last night. He had to leave for work so I waited until 5 min before he left so that there was NO WAY he could bait me and drag me into an argument. He is anal about work and wouldn’t do anything that would make him even a minute late.
So all I said last night was #1: This all had to do with your daughter and you always come to me to complain about that so this is not you doing ANYTHING new.
#2: I want you to come up with one instance where you have come to tell me “how you feel” about anything other than your daughter. Because if you can’t… then you haven’t made any progress in this area.
#3: If you ever raise your voice and/or start swearing at me again, the conversation is over right then and there. And I’ll just leave the house again if I have to. Length of time unknown. And you can deal with the kids and things here. (the only reason I came home yesterday after only an hour was because I was in nasty clothing because I was cutting tile all day and I had to get a shower, change and be at my daughters school on time for a parents presentation in one of her classes)
Lylo & Claire,
Good ideas. I think we both should save anything potentially volatile for email or for the therapist’s office. There is no way he’d act like that in front of her.Claire,
Sometimes there are disclaimers in the pre-speech as well. He’ll sometimes say: I don’t want you to get mad. (any conversation that starts with those words is guaranteed to make me mad.) But I want to get this off my chest. Otherwise I’ll passively aggressively pick at you for everything you do. And I don’t know why I feel this way. Am I over reacting or are you wrong? Because your not perfect so that’s a possibility. But if I don’t say this, I’ll just push it down and fester and it’ll build. Like I said, I haven’t explored much the reason why I am upset. I just know I am. It’s like a cake covered in icing. I can tell you what flavor the icing is but not the cake. Blah blah blahAnd the whole time I am wondering what the HELL he is talking about. This sounds like the middle or end of some conversation, not the beginning, and I have yet to figure out the subject matter of the conversation. So I’m normally irritated before the real conversation even starts.
Lexie,
I told him pretty much that at the time. He doesn’t get to disregard the rules of communication simply because he thinks he should be commended for trying to figure it out at 41. You don’t get a “free pass” to speak however you’d like.NAP,
I haven’t read it. I will. I did read the thing on cognitive dissonance. Maybe I need my son’s girlfriend to talk to him? She’s a neuro-cognitive research assistant.March,
I don’t see complaining and bitching as sharing ones feelings. I just see them as complaining and bitching. My H actually told me a few weeks ago, “I never get involved in Xmas. I’d like to help this year but I don’t know what to do.” I don’t even know what to tell him to do. I’ve done everything for so long, I wouldn’t begin to know what task to give him that he wouldn’t fuck up! He can’t even assist in tying to think of things to buy for the kids because he has no idea at all what they would like or want. Because he doesn’t pay attention to anything that goes on around here unless it directly effects him. I told him the other day that some limits need to be put on his daughter concerning TV. He’s like, “why?” I asked him if he had noticed that she spends every waking moment in the living room watching TV for the past 4 months? No. Of course not. “she does?” We have a semi open floor plan and there is no way to come into our house and go to any room without passing the living room.
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