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Thank you, silver-lining. The strange thing is that my h really wasn’t an asshole to me before I found out about his sex addiction three months ago. Well, of course he was being an ahole, having this sordid secret life, but I had no clue. In the past, my main complaint about him was that he seemed detached, and sometimes it felt as if I were in a stage play. For example, when he’d hug me, I felt as if he were watching himself, if that makes sense. But I assumed it was me just expecting too much, imagining things, hyper-sensitive, and on and on. But since finding out..and also like you said, during the period of time when I finally got suspicious, and was heading to being ‘on to him’..there is this side of him that’s come out at times, not always, but enough to drive me bonkers. I guess because he’s not ‘self-medicating’ anymore, as far as I know? In the month prior to discovering his secret life, I found myself so often late at night, driving aimlessly and smoking, wondering just what the hell was going on.
Thank you again for your words of encouragement and support. In some ways the way he acts now is even more disorienting than finding out the horrible stuff, and it’s a relief to read everyone’s experiences and to feel less alone.
I just called him an asshole because I can’t stand ANY of our SA’s anymore!! In my book at this point, I think they all are jack asses! We don’t deserve this and it’s not what we signed up for! I wish you nothing but the best! And believe it- you are NOT alone!!
Annie,
After reading everything that you’ve said about your h, I believe that he is a classic narcissist.
Now, the feeling like you are “in a play”… perfect analogy. Its because he IS in a play. Everything that requires an emotional response is something that he saw, or learned, or read about… and if its something new… omg!!! look out. He will start searching wildly for AN ANSWER!
I have deemed them to be akin to card board cutouts. Oh, they look real, but get a little closer and you will find that there’s not much behind the facade.
These are not REAL emotional responses. He is not capable of this. He does not FEEL these things. He is pretending to feel them, because he knows that is what he’s supposed to do… but it is not real to him.
To make it even more confusing, he does not REALIZE that its not real. He THINKS that what he is feeling (basically) nothing, IS real and normal.
It isn’t.
But, we also begin to doubt ourselves… because sometimes it appears real… and perhaps if its something very severe like the death of a close friend, he will feel something, but not love for a woman.
He loathes and despises the power that ALL women have over him, so what you get is what you get.
I would LOVE to see his email! Absolutely. I copy and paste stuff all the time.
my best ~ L
Thanks, silverlining and Lexie..
Yeah, that’s what I couldn’t quite put my finger on all these years, I guess. On the one hand he’s funny, patient with me..I’ve got a serious anxiety disorder up the wazoo, and he always helped me down off the ledge, so to speak.. and was my best friend. On the other hand, there was that feeling of ‘what’s wrong with this picture?’ But I’d brush it off thinking it was just me, and just accepting that he had this sort of detached thing, and thinking why should I complain when I’ve got this life-limiting anxiety problem of my own.
Here’s the email he sent me last night. For some reason when reading it I felt part of the veil lift a little bit more. I didn’t feel angry, just maybe the beginning of some clarity, because it looked to me like it was full of trying to play on my sympathies. In the not so distant past, I don’t think I would have seen that, sad to say. Your prayers for my clarity musta worked, Lexie! 🙂
Email from him:
Hi sweetie,
Today I moved to the condo. I’ll make a key for you this weekend. It’s lonely.
I really liked seeing you last night. I heard you when you said you needed to see what I wrote on the first step and I’ll read it again Friday and talk to my therapist about it tomorrow. I wish that wasn’t your bottom line since I don’t really know what I wrote in there about the thoughts that I was having when I was acting out but I can totally see that you can’t tolerate any more secrets or lies. I talked to my sponsor about it a bit today; he’s having me cut about half out of what I wrote and share it at the Sunday meeting soon. I said I’d be willing to do it if he wanted me to but I really didn’t want to.
I did pray for generosity today and compassion and I don’t feel that my big ego got in the way of me being humble so far. I feel pretty depressed so maybe that helps. Not your fault, it’s mine of course. It really hurts the way you don’t use your nickname for me now; the depersonalizing is really painful. I know, karma. I also feel like crap physically so I hope I didn’t give you anything communicable last night. I really love you and want to work through this crap and I’m sorry my self centeredness got in the way of letting you feel that before. Right now, I just feel dead inside and sad. I probably need the therapist tomorrow. I also fucked up an ochem test that was important, guess I’m prioritizing nothing.
I miss you Annie.My two cents – that has “pity me” written all over it. Of course had my H sent it to me, I’d be upset and confused. It’s so easy to see when it’s not your own situation. And so difficult when it is 🙁
omg.
he’s good. he’s really good. but not so fast…
Honey, my h is also kind and funny and was my very best friend– or so, I thought. But, its never enough… there aren’t enough women in the world to fill a void that can never be filled.
When he says that he “feels dead inside, and sad.” Here, he’s telling the truth, but he’s using it to garner sympathy… blecchhh, especially because just before that he “felt” very depressed and also felt “pain” and “hurt.” Which is it? Dead or in pain? Dead people don’t feel hurt and pain.
sure, sure… whatever… its all of it. he’s in pain, he’s dead, he’s hurt… HE’S FUCKING HURT???????????? CAUSE YOU AREN’T CALLING HIM HIS PET NAME???
(sorry to shout, but… really now…)
he’s depressed, he’s still dead, (if only) he’s sad… he’s remorseful, he deserves it, its karma… he’s humble, he’s got his ego reigned in.
its all nonsense honey… I think he’s merely got his sleeve caught up in the meat grinder and he’s spewing out whatever he thinks might possibly bring him some quick relief.
and he’s sorry… yes, yes of course. THAT goes without saying, but of course, we can’t hear that one, enough, can we?
Is he sincere? He’s not capable of being sincere; not at this juncture. He doesn’t even know what he JUST WROTE ON HIS FIRST STEP! And his sponsor wants him to DELETE HALF OF IT? And furthermore, he doesn’t understand why THAT has to be your bottom line?
“damn that woman. she expects me to tell her the TRUTH?!?!?! Who the hell does she think she is?”
wow. its a farce of ginormous proportions.
Re: anxiety. Coincidentally, I was just chatting with a young beautiful dancer friend of mine who suffers from anxiety and has found a lot of relief with Celexa. I don’t know if you have tried meds, but maybe there’s one that could help? But, who wouldn’t be anxious living with someone like that?
No one is all good or all bad. My husband is a fantastic father and in all other respects is honest and has integrity. But when it comes to his fragile ego, and his non-existent esteem, all of that flies straight out the window and it all becomes about himself; his wants; his needs; just him, the rest of us be damned!
(((hugs)))
Laurel
Celexa rocks! I highly recommend it to anyone! Best thing the good doctor could have suggested!!
PS- I love you, Triple L! What a way to pick apart that email!
Annie- one day at a time, sister! Just keep it real! XO!
Celexa was a miracle for me for about 3 years, before I became immune to it. Now I’m on Pristiq and Wellbutrin. Big fan of the meds these days.
Thanks, ladies. I am on Paxil for OCD. And also have Xanax that I can take if I’m in a really acute anxiety state.
Thanks for your feedback on the email. I agree.. There was an awful lot of passive-aggressive self-pity in there or something.I gotta say that I am really scared about what might be in his 12-page ‘sexual autobiography.’ That’s an awful lot of pages. My main fear is that it includes emotional connections or words of love to other women that he..of course.. has sworn never happened. My heart is pounding just typing this. And a few minutes ago I saw he’d sent me another email titled ‘My appointment with therapist yesterday.’ I haven’t opened it. Need to be in a calmer state before doing that. I imagine it will be full of how his therapist told him it would be a very bad idea to let me see his autobiography, or that the therapist wants me to come to an appt. with my h, for him to show it to me there, which would be really awful because it would prove just how devastating it would be to me. I’m speculating.. don’t even want to open the damn email. I think I’ll go for a walk and try to clear my head. Beautiful autumn day outside here.
Also wanted to add, that I feel rather self-centered right now. Haven’t been too good at supporting other women here yet. So focused on me me me. Did you ladies find that was in the case in the beginning for you as well? You’re all so supportive and generous with your time, and just want to say I really appreciate it.
oh honey, don’t you worry your head about being self-centred. No one on this site is in the same league as the self-centred narcissistic SA’s we’ve had in our lives!
We all arrive here in different states of panic and need, and in different styles of talking and not talking.For me, I know that every once in a while I run up my flag and throw myself at the mercy of the sisters about some thing that just bogs down for me. And in the early days I was often a mess on the other site. I still go back and read some of my early posts to see how far I’ve travelled on my journey.
So don’t hold back, anniem, you’ll want something to read later, too. Because, yes, there’s a “later” coming for you too.
warm hug,
Diane.I have dread in my stomach FOR you.
I think everybody needs more support when it is so new to them as it is to you. And you are a smart lady for seeking it out. There most definitely are some exceptional woman here.
I’m not as new to the SA thing as you. But new here and to really telling anyone. I’ve been so isolated for so long I don’t know how to give comfort or receive it real well. But this seems like a good place to learn.
Good luck with that email. Keep breathing.
I read his email, and it pretty much said what I expected it to say.. I copied it below. I don’t intend to respond to it. He keeps pushing the polygraph, but the polygraph won’t tell me the things that I am afraid are in this first step. The things that I fully believe he is hiding from me because he knows that they would drive me away. Maybe not even so much as what he did.. God knows that what I know about those things are already horrible enough.. but things that involve emotional connections or who knows what. I’ve told him this before, but he keeps saying ‘polygraph’ like a stuck record.
I dunno.. Lately I’m feeling that I just might be turning a corner, where I’m really feeling that things can never work out with us. I just feel sort of numb and resigned.“Annie, I talked with my therapist yesterday about sharing my first step document. His view was that it’s akin to taping my sessions with him and then sharing the recording with you. I guess I think I need a safe place to get out addict-crap, and the program and my therapist provide that for me. If you really are worried that I might have done other acting out activities in the past, let’s get that polygraph scheduled. Please don’t make this the thing that makes or breaks our relationship going forward. I do love you very much and that’s not going to change.”
*HE* NEEDS A SAFE PLACE????????????
come here little boy… I have some candy for you…;)
Do you know the term “gaslighting?”
here is a primo example of said “phenomena”
there is a shred of truth in there… about 1%– maybeeeee… the REST is all total MINDFUCK!!!
don’t fall for it!!!
geee… maybe the thing that’s going to break the relationship is the FACT THAT HE CAN’T KEEP HIS DICK IN HIS PANTS!!!?!!!
but, NO, now he’s shifting the responsibility for this MESS onto you!
sorry to shout and don’t you dare back down. If you want to read the entire fucking thing, then DEMAND to see the entire fucking thing!!!!!!!!!
*YOUR* SAFETY COMES FIRST!!! (but have someone that you know will be there for you, with you)
The numbness is normal honey… at first… It’s your body protecting itself…
I’m so, so sorry…
((((hugs)))
L
Thanks, silverlining and Lexie. (Laughing at ‘i’ve got some candy for you.’) And yeah, I’m learning what gaslighting is about.. It’s so frigging crazy-making.
And here’s what I don’t get.. He’s always had a phobia of impotence, and a sexual aversion problem. I know those are bonafide fears of his after 22 years of him confiding them to me, and books he’s read over the years, and online support groups he’s belonged to for these fears. He told me, post-discovery, that these phobias were what drove him to ‘act out,’ in order to prove himself, because I have to confess that I shut down on sex 10 years ago (whole ‘nother story), apparently around the same time that he began to trade being a ‘dry drunk workaholic’ for sex addiction. At first he blamed my sexual anorexia for his sordid secret life, then over time, he stopped doing that. And during those 10 years there were times I said to him, that I wanted to overcome my anorexia problem, that I knew it wasn’t fair to him, but he’d always say, ‘It’s ok, hon, I don’t have much of a libido myself these days.’ And so I stayed in my ignorant little gullible bubble. But he says he had to stoke up on Viagra to act out with these skanks..er, women. Which appears to be true, as I found lovely little empty bottles of the stuff on the top shelf of the closet after I kicked him out. I guess my question is if this kind of thing is common with sex addicts.. the phobia thing, and the subsequent..supposed.. need to test oneself or to prove their manhood when their woman has closed down sexually. That’s one reason I need to see this first step thing, because I have no idea if he’s using these phobias as a way to try to soften the blow for me, and I figure if that first step document is at least an attempt at some honesty, I need to know what the hell is the real truth here. Because in the beginning, I was still in the habit of thinking I could tell when he was being sincere..I know, I know, oh dopey me. But now, I have absolutely no idea how deep the lies go. How can he think we could possibly try to stay together if there’s something out there that he won’t show me, when that ‘something’ is all about what shattered my life in the first place? Scuse me while I go and repeatedly thunk my head against the nearest wall.
Kim, I know what you mean about isolating. I was already quite a bit that way..anxiety disorder and all.. but this has turned me into a virtual recluse. I just don’t want to go anywhere or see anybody. I’m afraid I’m rapidly turning into one of those batty old cat ladies, because all I really want to do these days is stay home and cuddle with my three kitties. And scuse the rant, but it pisses me the hell off that the only support groups in my area are that COSA or S-Anon shjt. I mean, in-person support groups. This support group is wonderful and I really don’t know what I’d do without it, and without all of you.
Oh honey–again… hang on… please… this could’ve been my post until the workaholic part… (exchange with online scrabble)… I am going dancin’ (my passion) which I haven’t done nearly enough of, recently. I’ll be back later, but hang on… I feel so badly for you! You’ve been suffering for waaaaay too long under some erroneous misconceptions. Not your fault, though. We all have, in one way or another.
((((hugs)))) ~ L
PS: lets try to fashion a response that will blow his little addie mind… I’ll think about it while I’m doing my tendus! LOL
ciao!
I want to see the therapist who says to the SA, “The first thing you need to do is lay it all out to your partner, all of it, so after years of lies and betrayals she can finally make an INFORMED decision about her own life. You have no right to keep any information from her–about what you’ve done, what you’ve thought, what you’ve said, any of it, because until now she has been living a lie of your creation. It is time her life got REAL. If she leaves you, tough luck. If she stays, it will be on her terms and with full knowledge of who she’s dealing with.”
March,
Excellent post !!! This would save alot of heartache and money, maybe even some marriages. Really sums it all up!
Love, NapThanks, march and NAP, and I agree with Nap, that your post is excellent, march. That sums it up perfectly.
And Lexie..lol.. I’ll wait in anticipation. Ahh.. tendus.. I miss those days. Took ballet for 11 years and I really miss it. These days they’d probably need the paramedics permanently stationed outside the ballet studio for me. So glad you’re following your passion.. Do a grand jete for me, since I’d probably dislocate my butt if I tried one.
I get really angry when I think about the fact that even the therapists and SA groups throw us on the altar for the sake of the SA’s. When we are at our most traumatized and vulnerable, they pile on, sacrificing us for the SA’s “recovery.”
I have been searching for a year for some form of support group, online or in person, that had nothing to do with codependancy or the 12 steps. My H has been up my ass about it too. “You need a support group.” He nags me about it. As if I can whip one up out of thin air. I told him to find me one and I’d go to it. In the mean time shut the hell up.
anniem ~
I’ve made a lot of progress over the past year distancing myself from my H. He does his recovery thing and we are still together but emotionally I have taken a lot of steps back. I’m not sure if I’ll ever trust him enough to take steps forward. Time will tell.I agree about the polygraph. They can only answer the simplest of questions. And not many of them either.
I hope you are taking care of yourself physically through all this. For almost 15 years I weighed between 92 and 102. I am 5’5″. In the past 6 years I have slowly put on 30 pounds. I want to lose 10 of it. But I am putting that on hold because with everything going on, I don’t want it to get extreme.
A lot of these guys have a “type.” My H’s type is thin, co-ed age and slutty. Since I’ll never be the last two anyway, I’m trying hard not to let myself spiral into thinking he has done all this because of my physical appearance and weight. I am so uncomfortable with how I look now. I feel like a beached whale. What he has done has played on those insecurities. It effects me enough that I refuse to allow him to see me undressed since all of this has come out. I have times when I feel extra down or depressed and I won’t eat for days. But I’ve been holding my weight steady.
Kim, you look nothing like a beached whale. Your picture is lovely. The one thing I do believe is that their addiction doesn’t have to do with what we look like. After all, wasn’t the beautiful Sandra Bullock’s husband a sex addict..unless I have him confused with some other sleazebag? And judging from the pic I saw of my h’s Craigslist gf.. apparently my h’s type is rather obese and manly-looking. Point being, I’m not sure these sex addicts have a ‘type.’ Seems like it’s a case of any pussy in a storm, pardon my French. Kim, do you have your story posted on this site? If not, do you mind if I ask more about how you deal with that feeling of emotional distance, and if at any time you were separated from him when it all came down? Because we’ve been separated for about six weeks, and I’m still fumbling around, trying to make sense of things, and trying to imagine what it would be like if we were back in the same house together.
And march, I went to a counselor only twice, and she kept asking me if I’d gone to a COSA meeting, and wanting to delve into *me.* After years of therapy for OCD, I was pretty much bored with me, and just wanted to figure out how the hell to deal with this crisis, so I didn’t go back to her. I don’t know what this cardboard cut-out 12-step thing has to do with *us.* No offense meant to anybody for whom the COSA type of thing is helpful, but right now, the last thing I need is another label attached to myself. I’m already dealing with the labels ‘duped, betrayed, shellshocked, and traumatized.’
March
Your post about finding a therapist who would insist that the SA get everything out in the open, etc was spot on. Why can’t the SA accept when the game is up and stop trying to control everything? Do they think that they really have everyone fooled? If they could just put half of the energy that they spend on secrets and lies and keeping all those balls in the air – well – if they could just spend it on telling the truth and being honest with themselves and their partners. Think of the possibilities for real healing to happen.
But no….HI Anniem,
I know you didn’t ask me but I wanted to respond.
First, I really think you sound like a smart woman who’s instincts about herself are bang on. I totally get how we can just get a little sick of ourselves, and constantly “working on something”. Sometimes we just need to live and let ourselves live. And I agree, who needs another label and another theory about what’s wrong with us? We were conned. And the “in” was the core of our being. Period.Achieving emotional distance really takes the passage of time. It’s 2 years since d-day, and over a year since I gave up on reconciling. We’ve lived apart since January 2010. Slowly and steadily it happens. No short cuts.
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