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So yesterday I asked my h for just an example of what was in his first step, and he told me that a year and a half ago, his 23 year old employee said she wanted to work on a Saturday when he was working. And he said his thought process was that maybe this was a sign from her that she was interested him, and that maybe they’d have sex in the office. Apparently that didn’t happen, but the most worrying thing about this is that although I have never met her, my son has, and he told me that she is a tiny little vulnerable thing who looks about 14, with almost a pre-pubescent body, and has a lot of neuroses, and is very childlike, still lives with her parents. Because this is just one.. probably relatively mild.. example of what is in his first step, I felt myself go completely cold when he told me, icy hands, the whole bit. And then I told him I had to hang up, which I did. He tells me this is all just part of the ‘crazy addict thinking,’ but for me, it’s different. It’s not about one of his nameless faceless hookers or his masseuses or his Craigslist ‘friend with benefits.’ And to top it off, I saw on the phone record that she and my h had been texting each other yesterday and the day before.
I think this may have turned a corner for me, as far as being able to consider going on with him. He is, of course, now trying to shift the blame onto me, telling me that this kind of disclosure should have been done in a therapist’s office. But the thing is, it doesn’t make any difference to me how it’s disclosed; it’s the fact that this was in his mind at all, and the fact that this is obviously only one of many chilling things that he had going on. Yesterday and today I just went into numb mode, trying not to think about it, and to just do routine chores and all that. I guess our SA’s think it’s easy for us to separate the addict from the person, but how on earth do we do that? Where does it all end?
Hi Annie,
Just to remind me, you are the one who asked for the step 1 disclosure…and he kept putting it off. I guess our little meters were right on…he did have stuff to really creap you out. But honey for this, i think you had to know, and there is more you probably will need to know, or maybe this is the worst of it. But what you know now is that not much of anyone was off limits….Yuck.I don’t personally think there is a devision between the addict and the person. Really. Yes and addiction is a compuslion which needs to be curbed. They need to find other ways to occupy their time, stay our of strip clubs, no computer….but i think the thoughts will alwasy be there, and maybe will be put farther down the list of things to do…however it will always be there.
Ever talk to a smoker?? Who quit?? The ones i have talked to say its a pull everyday. Its a conscoius effort. But the toughts are still there, they have just learned to no act upon them.
I wonder if that is what sex addiction is like. Just learned to control their impulses, and hopefully fill there lives with more postivie things. In other words thoughts about office girl will not go away. He may even need to a get a new job or transfer. He needs to change his routine.
This is a though i had just now. thoughts anyone??
My thoughts are with you annie. But you were spot on. Good think to put under your belt…that yes you are right.
We are behind you,Love,
FloraSo sorry Anniem,
It is a terrible thing that is all I can say. We are so hungry to know the truth while at the same time hope and pray that it is not as bad as our minds can imagine. We want sooooo bad to somehow just wake up from this nightmare. Please, tell me that I had a fall and have been in a coma and this has been some kind of drug induced bad dream. We continue to wake up each morning only to be re-tramatized and realize that our heartache is still there. We try to strecth our minds into what might have happened and what kind of things have they been doing.
All of a sudden there it is, there is a morsel of truth from them. We know it when it is truth. We feel it when it is truth. Yes, we wanted the truth, but………… what did he just say? What ever it is they are saying, what ever it is that he revealed is something that had not even crossed your mind. The bizare details of what he is saying is something that enters your mind in a way that you know is a level of honesty that is deep. It is one thing to know that he is engaging with woman who are nameless and faceless, this is bad enough. To learn that he is having thoughts about someone who he has contact with at work and that your son has met, takes it to a whole different level for you. For him to dismiss this as typical addict thinking is TYPICAL ADDICT THINKGING!!!!! This is no big deal for him, because for him, this represents the kind of thoughts that are within his ‘normal’. How dare you have a reaction to this and of course you are to blame for the fact that he told you. Lets just get the focus off of what he just told you and lets focus on your reaction. He is not disclosing his actions so that he can be accountable for his bad behavior. He is not telling you these things and offering protection and comforting words for how the information might feel to you. He is not telling you because he wants the facts out in the open and he wants a deeper level of relationship with you. When they behave in this blaming, self deflecting, entitled way that they are confessing to their Moms. It feels like they are telling their mother that they did wrong and waiting for their punishment. This is not what we want when we are looking for disclosure. Yes, we want to know what has happened so that we can make decsions about the rest of our life. Along with the explanations about their behavior we need to have a level of compassion and sorrow.
I know that this was difficult information to grasp. Give yourself time to digest his words. Let yourself feel what you feel. Trust yourself with the ability to determine the level of compassionate nurture that is surrounding the information he is giving to you. You are a valueable, loveable, strong woman. You deserve to be treated with respect and softness in light of what is disclosed. Be strong and do not accept blame shifting and minimization. I hope and pray that he will be able to provide you with some of what you need. If you are not receiving that kind of careing love, make sure to give it to yourself. Protect your little spirit living inside of youl
Love and hugs!!I try and hold more hope then maybe I should.
I compared smoking to his addiction as well but with a different outcome.
I smoked for 20 years. I quit 6 years ago. I will always be addicted. I have no illusions. I’d never be able to smoke just one cigarette. But I don’t crave cigarettes or have a pull to them very often at all. I do when I am extremely stressed and upset. Otherwise, when I see reminders like cigarettes for sale or I am around another smoker, it reaffirms my decision. It makes me so glad I quit. If I were to smoke a cigarette now it would be by choice not an uncontrollable urge. When I was an active smoker it definitely was an uncontrollable urge.
So my perspective of this when talking to my H is that he is far enough into sobriety that I will NEVER “buy” an excuse that he “slipped” because he couldn’t help it. I would view it as a choice and no sympathy will be found.
CAUTION MAY BE TRIGGERING š
I have some thoughts Flora. I agree with you about smokers,unfortunately….someone deciding to light up or someone deciding to f–k the office assistant is so very different. I have seen partners freak out because their significant other lit up….they would probably give pause if they knew what others have to endure as a “slip?”
The thing is this Annie…you now know that the 12 step document contains all those dirty little details that the lovely CSAT therapist will never give you in a structured disclosure. Of course they won’t. If they did you would never even consider staying with him. Lexie is right about this fact. They NEVER tell you the details that would murder the marriage. All you get is some general, watered down version of he “acted out” with prostitutes, people off Craigslist, massage parlour workers, masturbated to porn, cyber hookers ect. I HATE the word “ACTED OUT” because it so does NOT describe what these guys do. They sneak around behind your back, betraying you on EVERY level and then they get to give you some bull shit explantion with the pertinant details all washed out. I will give you an example from my own situation. In 2004, my husband told me he had an African prostitute in my bed while I went home for an operation. He told me when he was drunk and angry and was lashing out. Once the cat was out of the bag….I naturally began to dig (it was a 19yr marriage and I trusted him 1000%). I was then told he had intercourse (nothing else) with her in my bed while very drunk, he brought another one home when I travelled for a weekend but they passed out in the livingroom, and he met up with that same girl again at his company staff house,fondled her and passed out. Last year, when I found out so much more and had him completely skewared I had another disclosure that included Nigeria AND Asia. The truth from Africa was actually this. He brought home a hooker, had her masturbate to a porno movie, he performed oral sex on her and she on him and had intercourse with her. The one he brought home he did NOT pass out with but had full on sex with her in my bed. He then met her again at his staffhouse, had every kind of sex with her and then came home in the am and had sex with me. He dragged home another one at some other time, had every kind of sex with her in every kind of position and also had her tied spread eagle to my bed posts and God knows what else. I think you can see that his “disclosure” LEFT OUT behaviors I would have recognized as completely deviant(aids are rampant) and would have clued me to how insane he was. The follow up was much meatier (and that is probably the tip of the iceberg) and much more twisted. You get your hands on that 12 step document OR you make your separation a permanent one. They lie to you your whole marriage and then when they are caught they minimize and whitewash the details with the help of their “program”. I wasted 7 yrs in a fog before I FINALLY found out who he was. I would have known RIGHT AWAY if I had more of the details. Lexie is right..they will NEVER tell you what really counts because their entire MO is to keep you with them. She is also right that the “Devil is in the details” ? Your call? Karen xx
PS sorry to be graphic but there is no other way to drive the point home .It’s just horrible to get the details. Just horrible. And I agree with Karen’s (kmf’s) point. It’s the details that the program doesn’t want you to know, because once you hear them, the line has been crossed and you want out. The details are not incidental. Remember that saying “when people show you who they are, you ought to believe them”. It is possible to realize the complete con of the person you thought you were married to, and have compassion for their messed up psyche, AND realize they are just not capable of having an adult relationship with you.
Thank you so much, everybody.
Flora, yes, I have been obsessing over this first step thing for a while now. I think you’re right about the thoughts always being there for them. I think it was Nap who said to remember the first feeling you have when you first hear about these things, because that is the real feeling. And she’s right.. Because today I woke up with a self-doubt feeling again, you know, the usual ‘Did I do the right thing? Am I being unreasonable?’ But then I remembered the icy chill that went down my spine yesterday, and I know I have to trust that, and not go along with my h in his determination to minimize this as ‘just part of all the bad addict thinking.’
Cindy, you said what’s exactly in my mind. And the way they minimize and blameshift.. He actually emailed me after I told him I couldn’t go on with him anymore.. and he said, ‘what.. we’re breaking up because of something I *didn’t* do?’ Oh my God.. it’s such a Twilight Zone.
Kim, I think you’re right about viewing it as a choice, once they’ve got enough sobriety under their belt. What I see going on with my h is that even though he isn’t ‘acting out,’..at least as far as I know.. his underlying addict personality is still alive and well, in terms of what he views as normal when talking to me. No real understanding on a deep level of what’s happened, robotic responses, and what I call his ‘Who, me?’ mode where he seems bound and determined to act like he doesn’t have a brain in his head. Oh, and the sense that he’s just a leetle miffed at me to boot. Just plain crazy-making.
Oh, kmf, I am so sorry for what you went through. Like you, I trusted my h, so when all this came down, it was like the world turned upside down on its head. It’s like a really sick joke, only it’s real and there’s no way to wrap our heads around it. And to know that it’s inevitable that he probably picked something he considered relatively mild to tell me about his first step.. like you said, the rest has to be much more twisted. It is the details that matter the most to me, which is why he probably has kept deflecting to doing a polygraph, because he knows damn well the polygraph won’t tell me the details. And the weird thing is that after yesterday, I feel like I don’t want to know any more details, that I just want to leave him and be done with it all, because I know myself, and I know that I could never rise above it and lump it into ‘old behavior’ and ‘old addict thinking’ the way he can. It would haunt me all the time.
Diane, sadly I think you’re right about the complete con. And I’m glad you said what you said about compassion, because it makes sense..sort of puts it into an almost neutral place, where compassion doesn’t necessarily mean staying with them. Like maybe eventually we can come out of this with our own values intact..including compassion.. without being raging anymore, but at the same time realizing when enough is finally enough.
Love and gratitude to you all,
Annie xoxoAnnie,
I’m so, so sorry… but I don’t see that your husband has ANY sobriety under his belt.
Its ALL a con. Its “fake” sobriety.
You wrote:
“And to top it off, I saw on the phone record that she and my h had been texting each other yesterday and the day before.”
is that so??? he’s as drunk as a skunk honey, and a mindfucking, gaslighting lunatic.
My suggestion? Don’t talk to him. Don’t give him any reason to pull this heinous shit on you and say asinine things like:
“We’re breaking up over something I didn’t do?”
wtf??? Its absolutely enraging!!! And please, you can be as compassionate and forgiving as you like, but keep believing in yourself and your OWN beliefs, because those are the REAL ones… no second doubts. You had it right the first time.
Today, in a completely random, spot check as I rarely ever look anymore– I found predator on Craig’s list.
He’s 45 and a few months ago, he was 25 and now he is 23 in the headline and 27 in the post.
He’s Dorian Gray, on acid! lol
Honey, Don’t you see? ANYTHING goes; and I mean, anything. He’s an astronaut, he’s CEO of a textile manufacturing company. His father was a comptroller for the mayor. He walked around naked with his sister and her boyfriend. He’s single; he’s “bi-coastal”, (but not bi)… he lives with his brother, no wait, he lives with a woman, but she doesn’t care… he wants you and needs you, but then he blows you off at the last minute to be with someone new.
This is what they do… oh, its ALL ANONYMOUS, HUN… he will say…
That’s what my predator told his partner, and I know that because she told me so, in an early email. Honey, sure, a lot of it was anonymous, but a lot of it was not! Why he texted me on IM for hours and hours, each and every week. It was a full-time job!
I hope to God that your h isn’t that bad, but from the sounds of his lengthy private dissertation that he is not WILLING to share with you, I fear that your husband is withholding a helluva lot more from you, than you can possibly imagine.
I fear for you. I fear for your emotional safety.
The “crazy addict thinker” is WHO he is. That is HIM. He is not two people. He’s just ONE massively fucked up individual.
And since I believe very strongly that he’s not in REAL recovery, he’s only going to keep on hurting you.
But, don’t engage him. Don’t try to help him or fix him, because its impossible. The only possibility is to keep on getting hurt. He’s a drowning victim… and he WILL pull you under, if you let him.
I do believe that you are truly starting to understand the incomprehensible. We all go through this. Its a hideous thing and again, my heart goes out to you, as someone who’s been around this thing from all sides.
much strength and love,
L
Annie, its true that you can eventually feel compassion and even retain the agape love that u have for him. Maybe not Eros… When I confronted my bff on the phone about her affair with my husband (she was just one of a dozen) she vehemently denied it. Months later she admitted it, but the day she denied it so strongly my husband got this euphoric look that briefly washed across his face. He said that for just a brief moment he thought at maybe he was delusional and none of it had really happened and he actually felt joy. Then the details flooded his mind and he was back to reality and the anguish of that. Frigging tragic and I feel love for him because I know that he wishes it were all a bad nightmare more than I do. There are actually some human beings underneath all of this. Some are still possessed and may always be.
Dear Annie,
if you KNOW that you will never be able to rise above it…then that is your answer Darling. š The ONLY POINT now to finding out the rest….well, so you know how bad it is and to give you the courage to propel yourself away from this horrible pain. Sometimes we need the horror to use as armour against their incredible ability to twist the truth, our hearts and hopes. They can tap into who we are and what we hoped for and they use it to wear us down with their smoke and mirrors. Your husband is acting out with flesh and blood people. That is a VERY tall hurdle. Is he really worth it?? My heart aches for you and all of us. Karen xx
Lexie, ‘Dorian Gray on acid.’ Lol.. You gave me a much needed laugh just now. Thank you for that. You’re right.. It’s felt like fake sobriety all along for him, whether or not he’s actually ‘acting out.’ And I’ve been like a needy little sparrow hoping for the crumbs that occasionally come from him, when he seems to be ‘real’ with me. I think it may have been JoAnn who called this kind of thing ‘intermittent reinforcement,’ apparently a hallmark of SAs. And that’s what I’ve been holding on to, and that’s been a huge mistake. He tried a bizarre form of intermittent reinforcement yesterday again, by emailing me that he had first changed his gmail password in anger when I stopped emailing him back, and then afterwards, in his words ‘I grew up and tried to change it back so you could still read my email, but it won’t let me, so could you text me with a password you want me to use and I’ll change it back?’
Uh.. wtf..?Lylo..God..how awful for you that he acted out with your best friend. Geezus..that’s like suddenly losing two best friends at the same time. How are you able to deal with this? You sound like you’ve found some peace about all this. If you don’t mind my asking, what helped you get to where you are today?
kmf, where you said, ‘Sometimes we need the horror to use as armour against their incredible ability to twist the truth, our hearts and hopes. They can tap into who we are and what we hoped for and they use it to wear us down with their smoke and mirrors,’ this is so so true. It feels like I’ve been letting my standards just drop lower and lower as to what I’ll take from him. But I think I may just have finally hit the wall. Because obviously what I heard from him yesterday, as far as what his thinking was, is only one horror in a long list of horrors. It’s strange that his thinking, what he was wanting, all that stuff in his first step is more terrifying to me than actually knowing about the acting out. It’s long, dragged-out emotional torture and I don’t think there’s any room in me for any more.
I don’t know how to thank you guys enough.. I feel calmer after reading your posts and it means so much to me.
Love,
Annie xoxoI agree with Lexie 100%. That is not sobriety or recovery. Just a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
I have approached the “details” differently than most. I specifically made it clear I did not want them. The whole experience was traumatizing enough, for me the details would be even more traumatic. It would be like if my child was abducted and found dead. Hearing that and knowing the cause of death would haunt me. If my child were tortured and every detail of how they were tortured were disclosed to me & police photos of my childās mangled body were shown to me, I think I’d slit my wrists. Not wanting the details was my way of protecting my psyche.
Iāve read in one of your stories (I apologize, I canāt remember who) that videos of their husband with a prostitute were found. I am absolutely horrified to hear that. I canāt even imagine the damage that would do to someone.
I am sure that 12 page document doesnāt include a lot. I donāt think any of these guys truly disclose everything. Iām actually surprised he admitted to the co-worker thing. It seems to be something that a lot of guys would leave out. I believe many of them leave out something that would be a maker or breaker. If they donāt want a divorce and they believe whole heartedly that you will divorce them if a specific piece of information were disclosed, I find it hard to believe that most SAās donāt keep that tidbit to themselves. I think for that reason, we should ask ourselves, āwould we forgive them regardless of what theyāve done. Would we stay and try to work it out if our worst suspicion were confirmedā Because there is a chance your worst suspicion is correct and they will deny it with their dying breath.
Iāve read in numerous places that these guys disclosing slowly (trickle here, a trickle there) is more damaging then if it all were to come out at once. The partner keeps getting re-injured. For that reason, you may want to give thought to asking him to reveal a little at a time and just wait for the whole shebang.
Kim,
I’m the one whose SAH was on video with prostitutes. Well, my Dr. just increased my antidepressant dosage, if that tells you anything. Believe it or not, that incident was 2 years ago, and I feel like after the initial shock passed, I pushed it down as far as it could go. My psyche just could not deal with it. I really think it took a second d-day this past March (finding a secret email account), that made it all come crashing down and sink in. I still feel at times like I’ve barely scratched the surface of my emotions. My therapist who said “she could see why I’d be UPSET, but the term PTSD seems a bit strong” has not been of great help. She’s not well-versed in this area, although at least she was someone to unload to. So I’m searching for someone better, although to be honest, I haven’t tried super hard yet, because it seems exhausting at times. I don’t have a lot of confidence in therapists right now. On a good note, I can’t imagine much more from my SA that would surprise me, although he says there are things that are just between him and his therapist and/or SA group. WTF????????For the most part, not always of course, staying in a relationship with a SA is like being on a sinking ship. We can choose to throw off a life boat and jump on to save ourselves. If you stay on the ship too long, you go down with them.
Love, NapZumbagirl,
I have a horrible memory. I remember so much less from my childhood than most people. My psychologist said I have gaps and itās common in people from abused backgrounds. Iāve actually always suspected that was the case. My brother remembers abuse I have no memory of. A personās mind represses things that are too painful to process. No matter how strong we are, our minds can only take so much. I have no desire to probe my lost memories. I figure they are lost for a good reason. That may be unhealthy thinking but oh well!Iām a graphic artist. I have a vivid imagination. And the images I conjure up in my mind have been rather problematic for me at times. Youād think for as much as I think of these things and picture them that I was the one doing it. I think somewhere in my mind the fact that they are made up images, no matter how accurate, helps to insulate my pain. If I had great detail of actual events I wouldnāt be able to shut them out as easily.
Having seen actual video just would blow my mind. Iām surprised your husband is still alive. I feel like my reflex reaction to that would not be pretty. I slapped my H when he revealed one very minimized behavior (looking at porn.)
Your therapist has never been in your shoes. Minimizing the trauma certainly isnāt going to help. I hope you find a good therapist soon. Finding the energy and motivation when youāre depressed IS exhausting. I have yet to find the right medication. I think Iāve spent most of last week on my couch. At least itās a comfy couch. But going to the psychologist every week forces me up and out.
Here is what I donāt getā¦ why even TELL you there are things you donāt know that only SA and the therapist? He could have never said that and youād be none the wiser. Iād feel like he was taunting me!
Hi guys,
I was not comparing sex addiction to smoking, as in that they are the same addiction…no by far.What i am saying is that i have heard that smokers sometimes still feel that pull to smoke, when around it, see it….thus making it very hard to stop…because nicotine can be so addictive.
So my thought was…do sex addicts continue to crave the high from the addiction…still crave the feeling it gave them…the porn…the masturbation…the hookers….do they still crave it…but learn other ways to curb it. Or does it just go away. My guess is it stays forever as they learn to be mature adults and react to adult things in an adult way. But is that pull always there…will it always be a constant struggle…to just continue on. Maybe that is why the success rate is so low. The pull is too strong.
Flora
God.. I’m just crying right now for all of us. For the awful images zumbagirl was subjected to, for the horrors kmf had to deal with..for everybody. And Kim, I’m right there with you on the couch, honey. It seems like the only safe place these days, and I’m not kidding. I guess I’m just in a teary mood, and trying to understand how these men can do this to us, but there will never be any understanding of it.
And my h sent me an email that he was going to do a volunteer thing on Thanksgiving to ‘try to learn humility.’ But I found out..by looking at his other email address, not because he told me… that one of his pretty young classmates was the one who told him about it, so she’s going to be there. Humility’s just another name for middle circle behavior. I am slowly realizing that the only way through this is to head for the exit.
Well, he sure gives ‘volunteer’ a new meaning. Slimy. And he probably doesn’t even register what he’s actually doing.
Kim when you said:
“Here is what I donāt getā¦ why even TELL you there are things you donāt know that only SA and the therapist? He could have never said that and youād be none the wiser. Iād feel like he was taunting me!”
YES! He’s a SADISTIC PIG!!! sorry, but he is.
As for not disclosing all in the 12 page document… you are right. first of all… he has to remember, and even more scary, he has to UNDERSTAND that what he was doing was immoral, or disgusting, insulting, disrespectful, humiliating…and just plain WRONG.
For instance— Predator posted pics of his partner and him, on swappernet… (lol) They were at the top of his page all dressed up and smiles, like at a wedding… dancing cheek to cheek… and below that… were some THREE DOZEN pics of him, having sex with a number of different women… all NOT wearing anything, of course.
will he ever tell her that?
no, of course not. why should he?
will he ever tell her that his MO was to tell women that he was a bi-coastal CONFIRMED bachelor staying on CPW with his brother when he was in the city.
but for some reason, he confessed to me, several weeks later, that he did live with someone, (who he had “deep” feelings for) but sex wasn’t very good because it hurt her too much.
yes! that’s what he said. they went to the dr. and blah, blah…
it goes on and on and on and on… its in the details of what he said and did to procure his prey… the planning and scheming and TIME he was spending with other women.
its a sickness. its not you. its him.
(((hugs)))
Warning I am rambling, generalizing and using poor puntuation,bad grammar and cannot decide what person I am writing in .Not my best post for sure so those working on their marriages may want to give this post a miss…. š
Well I don’t think it is really about addiction at all so I don’t think that is what the pull is? These dudes get high off power, control and manipulation. Thats why they all have primary partners. It is not HALF as much fun to fornicate, lie and play mind games, IF you do not have a primary woman in your life to f–k over? You see, they have their fun in various ways. First….they manipulate their wives for years and years by witholding pertinant information. They hold all the power because they keep you in the dark.They control the entire relationship because they never tell you the truth.You wander around wondering why things just don’t add up and they stand back and laugh at your confusion. If you get close to putting your finger on anything, they turn on the charm until you are lulled into security again. They tend to do exactly what they want ( when they are not busy proving to everyone how great they are), so if they are inclined to want to cheat…they do. Whatever urges they have ,they just act on them and cover their behavior with lies.They construct an amazingly convincing persona of a nice guy, so most people ,including you…trust them completely.Their easy charm aids them in finding acting out partners and friends, sisters, neices ect seem to hold a particular appeal, simply because that is the most effective way to hurt their primary partner. Plus it is exciting to bring it so close to home. For those of you ( and me also) who wondered why they personalize their cheating by using a friend of yours or by doing it on your anniversary, the answer is simple…. they get off better by betraying you in a more personal fashion. Those that use hookers, anonymous hook ups ect do so for convenience, control, perversion and because they have no morality and absolutely no respect for women. ANY man who uses prostitutes does not respect women. They like the high risk sex BUT they enjoy the whole mindgame aspect of things much much more. Which leads me to my conclusion. AFTER they get caught, they usually ALL respond in exactly the same way. You get the water works, the promises, the “I will do ANYTHING!” speech and they allow you to lead them to some therapist who sets up their so- called program. This is a DREAM for them, because the program tells them it isn’t really their fault as they have an addiction that they cannot always control. Then they are advised that their partner is to keep her focus off them and EUREKA! Most wives respond in kind and try hard to survive the mortal wound they have sustained and instead rise to the occasion of frantically supporting their husband’s “recovery”….often while getting little support for themselves? The wife tries to get the SA to open up and tell her the truth and the SA gets to hide the good stuff behind his program. Not only does he get to either stonewall her or drip feed her BUT she is told this is NORMAL for addicts and she is sick for wanting to know anything but generalities!!! Meanwhile, all the wife REALLY wants to know is what he did in her bedroom with her sister and who hasshe been married to all these years! NOT because she is sick BUT because she needs the evidence that will finally convince her loving heart. The man she trusted for X number of years….ACTUALLY DOES NOT EXIST! This is the time where the SA can REALLY play with their partner and they do so with a level of mind fuckery that defies description. They have the details and they know their wives are screaming inside for the truth. They have the pleasure of watching their partner grapple with this “program”,that seems to be all about him and that reinforces his secrets and his withholding.During this time, the SA gives an oscar winning performance because the stakes are VERY high and the wife has one foot out the door.Crumbs are NOT going to work at this juncture. He showers her with attention, affection, often sex and has long conversations with her, where he seems to FINALLY be considering her feelings.She is left grappling with the incongruency of him telling her she is his whole world and then wondering how he could possibly do those things to her if that was true. Unfortunately, she is given her answer by a nice therapist who says it was his “addict” who did those things. WTF. No wonder the wife is so mixed up! He is so lovey dovey BUT he still will not tell her what he was doing all those years. He dangles the carrot of “full disclosure” in front of her, but he already knows he can spin that whatever way he wants.He already knows she will be advised NOT to ask for specific details. He drip feeds her a few details just the same….just to keep things interesting because he finally has his wife EXACTLY where he wants her. She is obsessed, distraught, semi functioning at best and almost broken. He has full control and has taken most of her power….which really feeds his own sick needs. After a period of time he becomes tired of that game and tired of being the center of attention… and he wants things to go back the way they were. Wifey is NOT so easy to con now and she is NOT “letting it all go” the way her therapist said she should. Plus, she isn’t doing the household chores as well and has become a party pooper. She is hyper focused on him and he is beginning to feel pissed that meetings and therapy are taking up so much time and money. He wants some action but it has become more challenging with her watching him all the time. However,the anticipation is MUCH MORE EXCITING because the stakes are higher and the planning requires much more attention to detail. He enjoys that increased risk but resents the fact that he cannot get his wife back where he wants her…. despite his most theatrical efforts. It also makes him angry that she doesn’t look at him the same way and she is always wanting to “talk”. The main frustration for the SA at this point is the fact that his wife REFUSES to let things go back to the way they were and he is becoming eager to get back to the “having the cake and eating it too” way of life. He enjoys the cat and mouse but is tired of having to limit himself to cyber or cell phone interaction and he is REALLY tired of all that transparency stuff. He KNOWS exactly what he is going to do and it is often around this point that some SA’s will say “F–k It. I am out of here.”, as it is sometimes easier to just get another partner and start the whole game over again with someone else. When that occurs somehow his perversion and betrayal become very unimportant and suddenly the wife is to blame for the marriage failing…even though she was the ONLY ONE working at the marriage?? In this scenario…the devastated wife is left reeling and trying to pick up the pieces of her shattered life and heart. The SA continues on his merry way…often making the divorce process as difficult as possible for her. If this isn’t what he wants he can always try using the threat of divorce to finally get her to back off. Some wives are more compliant and more willing to let go of the details. Some are trapped by other issues. Though they said they would leave, their continued presence reassures him, they probably will not? They do NOT want their marriages to end and he knows it. EVENTUALLY they begin to ignore their bellies once again. They often have feelings that he is NOT as ernest in his recovery as he should be, but life goes on. He gradually drops the charm and bit by bit things begin to return to the way they were before…though he continues to see a therapist and go to meetings because she she stands firm on that. Other than that …she has learned to take her focus off of him, for most of the time and he has some breathing room again.He knows that soon he can return to his old ways…if he hasn’t already.From his perspective….he has won again and his wife is back under his power and control. He has conned everyone, got away with it, and is STILL living exactly as he wants to live. I believe that many couples will live out their days in this fashion….with the battered wife trying hard to believe he is in recovery and with him continuing to exercise his relentless need for power and control. There is nothing really unique about SA’s EXCEPT for their weapon of choice. While a physical abuser chooses to batter your body, a SA opts to batter your sanity and your soul. Though they are masters at it, they are still just abusers and they have the same core beliefs as the rest of that bunch. They believe they are better than women and entitled to use women in any way they see fit. I don’t believe there is an addiction here ladies and many of you suspect the same? I acknowlege that there may be sexual compulsives or other forms of mental illness at play(OCD, Bipolar?) that doesn’t follow this exact pattern but for the most part these men are simply abusers and they operate in EXACTLY the same way as other abusers and sociopaths act. There was a quote once that said something like, “Those who cannot relate to people through love relate to them through power.” What these guys do is not love and it is not addiction. IT IS ABUSE. That famous writer Peck who did that study on evil suggested that evil was simply lying, selfish behavior and narcississm. From where I am sitting that sums up MOST of our husbands and probably explains why we constantly question their behavior as either insanity or just plain evil. I will leave you girls with this thought. If your husband was punching your stomach with his fists…..would you still be trying to make a marriage with him?? Now all you have to do is remember the feeling in your stomach everytime you find out he has lied to you or betrayed you? Abuse comes in many colors, but it is STILL abuse. And no one gives you a “get out of jail free card” for it? Karen xx
Wow, Karen.. That was amazing. The last part really hit me especially:
” If your husband was punching your stomach with his fistsā¦..would you still be trying to make a marriage with him?? Now all you have to do is remember the feeling in your stomach everytime you find out he has lied to you or betrayed you?”
I really need to soak that in..it’s pretty damn profound. Thank you for that.Annie xoxo
Karen. I think it was actually one of the best posts of many fantastic posts that you’ve written. You get it and you described Predator and the composer, to a T.
My h is of the passive, depressed, very low self-esteem… actually a paucity of an ego-type. However, many of the same principals still apply, especially, the withholding of information, control issues, etc.
So, are you making a plan to get out of your abusive situation?
its really, really tough, isn’t it? I’m struggling too, but at least I called some lawyers today.
(((hugs))) L
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