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sorry girls. Having a tough time. Need to rant. Had a thought this evening after 3 glasses of wine and dinner by myself. All I ever wanted was a happy home, family, children, wealth and health for all of us, including husband foremost. That is all. Fully supported, went to bat for, sacrificed, etc., to achieve the small piece of pie we do have. What do I get in return? A lying, addicted, non family oriented man on a self destructive path. One so convincing, I have been playing the “get well” card with for 7 mos. Quite honestly here it is: ready yourselves. I am tired of not having sex and wasting my love, and what is left (very little) of my fertile years. The addiction is first, not me. It is a painful discovery. Even if there is no acting out, (i) the addiction is first.
I want to have sex, I want to have love, and I want a man who digs my shit. period. I am diggable. not a prude, not non sexual. I have not had sex in 6mos, awaiting his “recovery”. What am I being faithful to? someone tell me. this is ludricrous. I am attactive, smart, funny, a good mother, and overall have my shit together, except for this fucking relationship. It has twisted all into a knot. this is not even human. so tired. so done. so need sex. sorry. but this is where I am at.
cougar city. here i come baby. I will not be shy. thats all
p.s. what would a guy say anyway? Oh, you left your husband because he could not be faithful, fucked a bunch of trannies, lied non stop, and you were afraid of getting HIV? yeah. and then you tried to work it out still? yeah. for your kid?? yeah. I expect my phone will be ringing. hope yours will too.excuse, but I had to rant. thanks for listening to me.
Rant away, Pam. Yeah, after all of this crap it’s no surprise that you crave a great date with someone that sees you as a woman and makes it clear that you spin his wheels.
Are you in couples counseling? I believe that a good counselor can help validate our feelings of despair over the lack of honesty and transparency that we need to feel safe and help hold them accountable for their actions/inactions. And help us understand where our ‘done’ is. And maybe how to do that if necessary without ongoing regret.
Dear Lylo,
Thanks for support. No we are not in couples counseling. Quite frankly he is such a mess he needs offsite rehab 30 days or more before I even think about that. But great suggestion for possible future if there is one. Looking at what health insurance may/may not cover as far as behavioral health and/or rehab options are right now.
I really like what you said about “done” and living without ongoing regret. That is the key to a happy life. It sounds like you are in a good place. I hope your couples counseling is helping you both heal.Pamc – It really helps to let it all out doesn’t it. Let me tell you about life AFTER the SA.
When I was living with Steve, my stomach was in knots every day. At night, I would drink 2 Crown Royals (Yes, almost every night) to self medicate and cope with his triggers and then watch him lie out of it. I was smoking a pack of cigs a day. I was depressed and not sleeping. Previously, I never ever drank except when out socially.
After separating from him for the second time in August, we still had contact – mostly on the w/e’s. The nightly Crown Royals went away, but I would still drink a couple when I was with him, and my smoking diminished to 1/2 pkg. a day. I quit having the knots in my stomach, and I began sleeping again.
After making the decision to file for divorce in February, I have NO knots in my stomach, NO Crown Royals, and I have quit smoking completely.
Amazing what I let this man do to my life. They aren’t worth it. They feel no pain, empathy, or guilt for what they are doing. They watch us self-destruct in front of they’re eyes with little if any emotion, and yet the addiction continues. One of life’s BIG lessons for me.
There is not a person on this earth who is worth allowing ourselves to become less than what we want to be.
Hugs to you.PamC
It’s so good to have this place to tell the truth! I went through the no sex thing, too. It is so hard to never be touched, and it does a number on your self image. I can’t imagine what it must be like for you if you were hoping to get pregnant. I’m so sorry for your pain, but it sounds like you are starting to know that you deserve more. You do! We all do.
Part of what was so shocking to me about discovering my ex’s activities was that he seemed so little interested in sex. I was surprised to read that sexual anorexia was part of the horrible illness.
Thinking of you.
Polly
Hugs to you Pam,
This is such a roller coster of emotions, isn’t it?
I, too feel like: All I ever wanted was a happy home, family, children, wealth and health for all of us, including husband foremost. That is all. Fully supported, went to bat for, sacrificed, etc., to achieve the small piece of pie we do have. What do I get in return? A lying, addicted, non family oriented man on a self destructive path. One so convincing, I have been playing the “get well” card with for 7 mos. Quite honestly here it is: ready yourselves. I am tired of not having sex and wasting my love,”
I too felt like that so often up until I told him it was time. Now I am pissed because he is already out dating and I am the one, once again, sitting around crying and mourning the big loss that I feel. The loss of my fantasy world.
I went and put some profiles up on dating sites. Not sure I necessarily want to date, but not sure I don’t. Damn it, this has been going on three fucking years. I have been faithful and loyal and patient and kind. I haven’t had sex in 8 months waiting for my life to magically be the life I wanted. Meanwhile he certainly did and I am sure he is once again. I am tired of watching life just pass me by and not live it while trying to put the pieces of a screwed up life together.
He actually propositioned me for sex tonight. Almost begged. The messed up thing is that I was tempted. We always had such a great sex life and I know it would be good. I really wanted to and then get up, get dressed and walk out. I refrained because I know I would be an emotional mess afterwards, but what have I gotten for being such a good and loving wife? Heartache. and more heartache.
We will move on from these men Pam. We will find happiness and the life we dreamed up, just slightly different with men that can truley love and appreciate us.
Lori
Freudian psychologists have long recognised the Madonna-whore complex, where some men are unable to be sexually satisfied by a women who offers them love and security. They categorize women into one of two separate categories—saintly or sexy. They have a very difficult time seeing a woman
A narcissist eventually withdraws sexually from any type of intimate relationship you once had with him. I believe it is inevitable in any long-term relationship with a narcissist. You become sexless. You become the Madonna. He still needs you, no doubt. However, this is not because he is in love with you in any adult or mature way. He needs you to continue to cater to his needs. He needs you to ensure that someone will always be present to stroke his ego, should the outside world fall short of his expectations.
So is today’s easy access to porn breeding more and more narcissistic young men? Lisa certainly thinks so.Many teens today are learning about sex and love through pornography. As a result, I believe they see the two as mutually exclusive.
For women who struggle with a narcissistic and distracted partner, Lisa’s site offers the following advice:You cannot change a narcissist, but you can take steps to make changes in your life that will make you happier. I believe that is our goal…to accept what we cannot change and change what we can. We have the ability to evolve, which is a beautiful thing. We are responsible for the choices we make in life and we can choose to be happy or we can choose to play the victim.
Further support and discussion is available on her forum.
are unable to be sexually satisfied by a women who offers them love and security. They categorize women into one of two separate categories—saintly or sexy. They have a very difficult time seeing a woman as both.Once a sexy woman has been conquered by the narcissist, she slowly loses her desirability. The more comfortable the relationship becomes and the more caring she becomes, the less enticing she is to him sexually. She becomes a saintly mother figure, but he instinctively begins to look elsewhere for sexual thrills. And that’s where porn comes in.
Lisa explains further:
Pam, I’m not in a great place yet but I’m hopeful. Lori, Sharron, loving, caring, devoted women will always be vulnerable to heartache because you open your hearts. I still believe it’s worth it. It’s part of your beauty! Sharron is proof that there is healing.
Polly, the sexual anorexia thing isn’t discussed often here. Also referred to as the Maddonna-whore complex. I experienced that also. My h sees me completely differently now but for 25 years it was as described in the article below:“…A narcissist eventually withdraws sexually from any type of intimate relationship you once had with him. I believe it is inevitable in any long-term relationship with a narcissist. You become sexless. You become the Madonna. He still needs you, no doubt. However, this is not because he is in love with you in any adult or mature way. He needs you to continue to cater to his needs.
Many teens today are learning about sex and love through pornography. As a result, I believe they see the two as mutually exclusive.
For women who struggle with a narcissistic and distracted partner, Lisa’s site offers the following advice:You cannot change a narcissist, but you can take steps to make changes in your life that will make you happier. I believe that is our goal…to accept what we cannot change and change what we can. We have the ability to evolve, which is a beautiful thing. We are responsible for the choices we make in life and we can choose to be happy or we can choose to play the victim.”
Pam, I’m not in a good place yet but I’m hopeful. Sharron, Lori, being a caring, loving, devoted woman will always leave you vulnerable to heartache from those who lack integrity or healthy boundaries, but it’s still worth it. It’s part of your beauty!
Polly, sexual anorexia isn’t discussed alotbhere, but I experiecnced it for years. Below is part of an article I found that resonates.
“Why do some men prefer manufactured porn or outside encounters to their real, loving partners? Writer Lisa E Scott believes that their narcissism is a major cause.
Freudian psychologists have long recognised the Madonna-whore complex, where some men are unable to be sexually satisfied by a women who offers them love and security. They categorize women into one of two separate categories—saintly or sexy. They have a very difficult time seeing a woman as both.
Once a sexy woman has been conquered by the narcissist, she slowly loses her desirability. The more comfortable the relationship becomes and the more caring she becomes, the less enticing she is to him sexually. She becomes a saintly mother figure, but he instinctively begins to look elsewhere for sexual thrills.
A narcissist eventually withdraws sexually from any type of intimate relationship you once had with him. I believe it is inevitable in any long-term relationship with a narcissist. You become sexless. You become the Madonna. He still needs you, no doubt. However, this is not because he is in love with you in any adult or mature way. He needs you to continue to cater to his needs.
So is today’s easy access to porn breeding more and more narcissistic young men? Lisa certainly thinks so.Many teens today are learning about sex and love through pornography. As a result, I believe they see the two as mutually exclusive.
For women who struggle with a narcissistic and distracted partner, Lisa’s site offers the following advice:You cannot change a narcissist, but you can take steps to make changes in your life that will make you happier. I believe that is our goal…to accept what we cannot change and change what we can. We have the ability to evolve, which is a beautiful thing. We are responsible for the choices we make in life and we can choose to be happy or we can choose to play the victim.”
I want to have sex, I want to have love, and I want a man who digs my shit.
Right Pam – I love the phrase digs my shit. I know what you mean. You can watch couples who’s eyes are alight when they look at each other. I’ve longed for that. You rant away!!
Congrats on your job promo.
Dear All,
thanks for all insightful encouraging responses. It is a funny thing, not funny ha ha, but in an uncanny way, that the better I feel about myself and my life, the less I feel responsible for his recovery. The less trapped I feel as well. If he wants recovery and a clean and sober life, really wants it, he’ll do the damn work and that is that. So far, not so good.
Every boundary has been breached, only to get new tighter ones (at his request not mine) until he finds the next pin hole in the dam. It’s like this, he says if he does not have access to money, he won’t be able to act out. All accounts signed over to my name. But there is still cash in the business and ways to get around it. He finds a way, acts out, confesses, and says, ok this is the lie I told to do xyz, so now let’s put a boundary to stop that. Then he finds a way to break that. Then, on top of it all, he wants credit for trying so hard and coming up with new boundaries to control his addiction. Plus he thinks his “after the fact” confessions are being transparant! No, it’s called lying. he thinks it is progress. there is no progress after the fact. only before. The internal hard work has not yet begun. No boundary can completely stop an addict if they are not really in recovery. They may reduce harm, and limit the behavior, but it is not a recovery. We have been unable to move beyond this stage and I am not pleased. He is stuck in the mud. time is ticking. thanks all for love and support.Hi PamC,
Yeah, i feel the same. My SA as far as I know had not & has not admitted to any actual sex with others acting out, alhtough i have to say that it is doubtful. He also likes to say he is in recovery since April 2010. He has never admitted to anything more than what I have found evidence to. I kicked him out in October 2010. So in this, almost year, time frame little has changed. He has yet to make amends, yet he is going to 12 step. He has yet to admit the nature of his wrongs and all that he has done, also part of 12 step. he has yet to share bills, phone records, account for unaccounted for time, passcodes for email accounts, etc etc. to aid in efforts to recover trust; even though he said he wants to stay married and is in what he calls recovery. At this point these things should have taken place. I should see a shift in him, accountability, remorse, etc.So you know what i think, he never was and never has been in recovery. At no point in time over the past year have his actions matched his words. He is putting up a good act and pretending, or his parents have talked him into that he does not even have a problem, but where does that get me for a better life with him, no where. So even after this year, things appear 100% the same. Nothing has changed except he is out of the house, which has led to much peace for me. I am hardly ever stressed, and definately not like I was when he was in the house. I have slowly split everything financially, and have extracted him financially from my life. Which was a chore.
Now we (to include pam not the SA husband) are getting promotions and things are looking good. There is great comfort in knowing that it will be okay, even if we divorce. Yes the living standards may be less, and i may have to work harder, but we will still have a roof over our heads And there may not be any elaborate vacations for quite a while, but that is okay.
So as a wife of an addict where the addict was not and never was in recovery it can happen that you are lied to or manipulated for over a years time. And that you even after a year of supposed recovery, will not see one speck of what would appear to be a husband who is in recovery. Our 5 year anniversay is on saturday, and I would like to take one of Diane’s titles and call it unhappy anniversay; but heres to a happy future even with and pending divorce.
Thanks so much for sharing. It is so nice to hear from you and Sharron both that life after leaving the SA is less stressful even if financially reduced. there’s much to be said for that.
It is interesting to hear how people’s SA’s act in their “recovery.”, specifically fake ones. What I don’t understand, is that my SA actually came clean with emails, (we have eblocker now), I have access to blackberry and phone records and all bank accounts. He has confessed to his acting out with prostitutes, and the ways he got around his own controls and mine to act out. There have been moments of sincere accountability and sorrow for what he has done. He often confesses that he hates his own behavior and what it has done to me and our life. That he is not in control, the addiction is, and he needs help. then he quickly minimizes that it’s not so bad. He is yet to get serious about 12 step, he dabbles in meetings and attends inconsistently. He says the no access to money is the most important control to keep him from acting out. Yet, he keeps finding a way around it. When he has no access to money, he medicates with alcohol subbing one for the other. This is not progress either. He says he wants to be “forced” to look at himself, for me to be stricter, check everything he does. He says he’s crying for help. But yet, the addiction and acting out continue somehow. Is this my weakness? I question. If he’s home, he’s itchy and climbing the walls. If he is out, he is cruising for what he cannot buy. Or scheming a way to get at it. Moments before confesses his “love” for me and appreciation for sticking with him to get better. then, he acts out. I need to apply more pressure, and enforce boundaries and consequences. While it has been getting tighter, and harder for him to do his thing, I have very mixed feelings about being “gatekeeper” to his addiction. what about his personal responsibility? He keeps asking me to be stricter.
JOann- any comments on above behavior? would love your feedback. thanksHi PamC,
I think you are getting the feeling that what he is requesting of you as far as being gatekeeper is getting to be too much. And I would totally agree. His recovery cannot be dependent on the gates that you put up to finances etc. He needs to be accountable, instead of finding a way around..then stating that he cannot control himself. While this may very well be true, I don;t think this is what recovery looks like when soemone is really trying. He should be taking responsibility, he should be putting together boundaries and gatekeeping for himself.Part of me worries that he continus to put you in this authoritative controling postition; so he can rebel or its just a game he likes.
My SA in the beginning said he was sorry and that he loved me and does not want to get a divorce. But what I have realized is all of it is empty words and promises…hollow.
its hard when you live with a sex addict to really enforce boundaries. And it is hard for him to be the only one accountable for his behavior, if you are still in the picture, and he is asking you to be the gatekeeper. I have kids and I could not allow him to figure this out in our household and I could not be financially responsible for everything anymore while he was lazy. Sometimes for them to be truely accountable for themselves I think we have to let them go at somepoint. And then they are truely on their own. Of course this approach I think is only for the ones who are not truely showing signs of recovery…like mine. If they are however in recovery, and not a financial leach as well and there are not children in the hom, maybe you can live in the same houshold and try.
It is tough. I will be curious to see what JoAnn has to say.
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