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I’m finding myself full of self doubt and insecurity. Please bear with me as my thoughts are a bit jumbled due to a Migraine, which may also be contributing to my insecurities.
Here’s my dilemma. I had a key logger last year on D’s computer. I understand the differing views on a KL and it’s one of the reasons it took me so long to put one on his computer in the first place after I had my suspicions of his dishonesty with me. However, I will never, never, ever regret putting one on there. Did I say never? That KL provided me with the proof I needed that he was still surfing porn even though he said he wasn’t. His disclosure came on the same day it was installed – ick – and it also gave me the concrete evidence I needed in case I need to pursue divorce next year. So, again, I have no regrets. (Yes, I know there’s ways to get around it, but I also know that he would never think I’d do such a thing LMAO)
And as I type this, I’m beginning to see common sense form in my brain, but I’ll continue what I started….just for shits and giggles, as it were…it’s amazing how much journaling can bring my mind back to it’s common sense place. Again, I digress.
Continuing with my dilemma. D has his “school” computer which remains in our family room and doesn’t leave. For the most part, he uses it for homework but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t access the internet for his email and hobby forums. I know he isn’t accessing porn from it, he’s not that dumb, I get on it too. If he’s going to slip, it won’t be from that computer. Last night he was reading his email and he says “Oh, wow, I got an email from Joe “. He’s pretty excited and it’s so reminiscent of the old D it makes my skin crawl. Joe is from his military world and I asked about him:
“Joe? Who’s that?”
“Oh, he’s from *country*; we worked on the so and so project together, remember?”
“No, doesn’t even ring a bell.”
“He was at the picnic…bald….accent….”
“No, still don’t remember him at all. Is he married?”
“Yes, yes, he’s married with kids. Very marriage friendly. You’d like him. I’m surprised you don’t remember him. We talked about German beer at the picnic….”
“So, you just got an email?”
“Yeah, he’s doing really good too. Seems that same old shit at my old job is going on.” (D has been retired for over a year, why does he care? Once a military guy, always a military guy?)
I believe that one of the reasons D acted out wasn’t for the sex part of the emails. It was for the actual emails. That’s why he was still so willing to correspond with women who wouldn’t cross the proverbial sexual line. It was all about the attention. It was to see the number of emails in his inbox, like a popularity contest, a stroke to his ego, a way to make up for his lack of popularity in high school.
One of the problems he’s always had is opening up to me. I understand that many, if not all SA share the same communication block. It’s something that we talked about for the first few months of his sobriety but that I’ve left alone because I assumed he understood the importance of it. I’m now learning some new things the last few days which I think just sucks – this is not a disease that the SA grows, learns and moves forward. It seems, at least to this novice, that this is a never ending process of repetitive work.
So, rewinding to my original question, which I’m not even sure I got around to asking – do I install a KL on the lap top in family room? (the KL in the bedroom is expired and I still haven’t decided if it’s worth purchasing again-I’m relying on my gut now). Common sense answer – no, just sit him down and remind him of the importance of communication because after asking him last night and checking his email today, yes, I checked it, all is kosher…but, that doesn’t mean he didn’t delete shit…he’s a SA after all…
All kosher except this: He initiated the email, along with one other to another co-worker (male) that I can see and asked if they wanted to get together for lunch. Looking at the dates, it’s when he and I were not communicating with each other last week. Common sense tells me he should be reaching out to me. It also tells me that he is one small step from reaching out to A or C from his old line of work (women, one he acted out with and one he tried.)
So, this is where you guys come in…..to install or not to install? For those of you who aren’t familiar with D, he’s been sober 7 months and he’s very open to suggestions.
Hi SS,
My thoughts are do what is necessary. Given he is 7 months into sobriety, installing the key looger is not so much for him, but for you. I think that it is a fair request of you and if he says you don’t trust me…you say yes you are darn right i don’t trust you; these things do not go away over night. alhtough informaing that key logger is installed he may just disable it. Is there a need for the two computers?? You could get rid of one.
However as always if he wants to act out he will, and if he wants to hide it and not tell you, he will. He can find other avenues other than your home computers to send emaial and so forth.
But i also think that safeguards need to be in place until you no longer need them. So the best bet may be to ask to install keylogger? Its a tough question really. Maybe someothers have better ideas.Ohh and no one blames you for installing key logger without permission. That is how most of us found out of activites based on SA lying and in recovery….. its the only way. I did it myself as well.
As a previously unfaithful marriage partner (your h), I would install whatever you want, to feel comfortable and see what he is choosing to do with the computers at his disposal.
Hugs, B. TrayedAny other opinions on whether or not I should install a key logger on his lap top?
I’ve given it lots of thought and I still circle back to the the not knowing. That’s what pissed me off the most about the SA. I know it sounds bat shit crazy, but it’s true. I could process the actual affair part easier than the not knowing part of it all. I don’t want to do go through that again.
I’d much rather have a heads up, start preparing and getting my ducks in a row to leave instead of being blindsided again and feeling like a complete dumb ass.
I had a woman in my COSA group who’s husband relapsed after almost TEN years!! And it’d been going on for quite some time. They both became complacent and I don’t want that to happen to me. I don’t want to be so-called hyper-vigilant (I shudder at the co-dep term), but if I have the tools, why not use it?
Thank you flora and b-trayed for “getting” it.
Hugs,
SSHi StillStanding, I do have some very firm opinions on keyloggers.
I feel that if any partner feels that there are things going on in her relationship that she needs verification of, then any means to obtain that information is not only proper, but healthy. Just sitting back, waiting and wondering, or, worse yet, ignoring all the signs, is enabling behavior.
What does any police or investigative agency do when they feel a crime has been or is being committed? They gather evidence. Obviously they don’t go up to the suspected serial killer and ask him if he spends his nights mutilating young girls. Come on now!
So, computer monitoring is a tool to gather evidence.
Let me repeat that:
Computer monitoring is a tool to gather evidence.
That’s the only purpose. And, before you start on this fact finding mission you must be very clear what you are going to do with that evidence.
What is your plan if you find what you suspect? Will you leave? Set boundaries for his future behavior? Insist upon counseling? File for divorce?
Just watching and agonizing over what you find is very harmful behavior.
So, when used as a tool for gathering fool proof evidence, with clear goals and actions in mind, it is perfectly normal and healthy. But, if just used to torture yourself it is nothing more than a masochistic form of self torture.
I still monitor Larry’s computer. He offered this as a way to make me feel more comfortable that he was not acting out any more. In a case like this, where both parties are aware it is a great tool for validating recovery and building trust.
I feel the same about lie detector tests. It can be used as a tool to verify that you are not being deceived and, if used in an ongoing manner, helps you feel more secure.
Hi Stillstanding,
I agree with JoAnn. You will need to decide how you want to use the information once you do or do not know. I think if that is defined before you do it, then you’ll be clear with yourself on how to react to it. I personally would get too strung out monitoring my h. He was also a “very active” SA. So your situation and JoAnn’s are much different.
Love, NapNap,
I absolutely know what you mean about getting strung out on monitoring him. That was me for about two months after Dday. I was checking his computer, his no-longer-secret email accounts and that KL all the time. I mean all the time. With the emails, I got to a point where I wasn’t finding anything new. I had expected this flood of women and emails from porn/adult sites but it never happened. I ended up doing a total of four (?) no contact letters. He had told me the truth, he stopped his online affairs almost six months earlier. But, I just needed that proof. So, I got bored checking the emails and just stopped. I may pop on now and again for shits and giggles or if I’m pain mining, but it’s been a long time.
The KL, that had me hooked! But, same thing happened there. I was checking it every 30 minutes, then slowed down to a few times a day and then, when I had it in the bedroom, it’d be days.
But, I still think it’d be a good idea seeing how he doesn’t seem all that in to finding a sponsor and a slip can happen and that can lead to the next thing.
That would lead to my happy ass being single yet again!!
I’m glad to know that I’m not the only one! although my situation was completely different, I simply couldn’t believe I was being so cavalierly lied to which lead to compulsive monitoring and more.
what was dysfunctional for me, is that I chose not to walk away, the MOMENT, of that first blatant lie that he told me just for the sake of it.
That was my first clue to run… but instead, I minimized the effect it was actually having on me, and stewed in my own venom, not even fully realizing how I was breaking my own heart and then eating it too.
I did it because I was completely deluding myself.
never again. I have realized that even though I was well old enough to know better, in some ways, I had managed to have avoided all of that icky in my youth.
My husband was my first real relationship.
Hi SS and Lexie,
I understand what you are saying. My therapist would always say do you want a cop and prisioner relationship? No, not really, but I didnt know what else to do its like you’re dang if you do and dang if you don’t. I knew it was eating at me and he sure didnt appreciate it either.Lexie, in your post are you talking about predator or your h? And if you dont mind me asking, is your h a sex addict and if so when was your D day? Please don’t share if you are not comfortable. I understand and respect your privacy.
Also, Lexie, based on what I know of your childhood, your h relationship must be very special because he was the first real relationship you had. This addiction thing is so hard because we love them and for me it’s frustrating not to be with the one I love. At the same time, the dysfunction of the relationship, because of the addiction, is so unhealthy and destructive. It would have been like me wanting to stay in my burning house because I loved it, yet it would have killed me, so I had to get out…life is hard.
Love, NapNo, I don’t mind sharing anything. I was talking about Predator. Ironically, I rarely have the feelings that most of you have towards your husbands/partners.
But, my h might be a sex addict. I don’t really know.
I can’t know. I can’t know, because I am not with him 24/7.
But, he did leave his cyber sex chats on my lap top by accident five years ago…
I was upset but I wasn’t traumatized… or maybe I was…
I do remember sitting here and thinking…
my marriage is over…
I cannot say that I love my husband. I don’t thrill to his touch. It died a long, long time ago… But, he’s there when I need him.
At least we are friends and he’s not abusive.
yes, i am settling. and no, I can’t do any better than that. the only men i’m wildly attracted to are socios.
every single one of ’em.
Hello Ladies!
Stillstanding-
We really haven’t had a chance to talk yet since I have been fairly MIA for a couple of months now, but trying to get on here when I can! (as in 2 a.m.) However, I have had a chance to read a few of your posts and it makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up when I do. Like the others, we have so much in common! I read your posts and And I feel like I could have written them! It’s really freaky when that happens! It has happened to me with others on the site as well, Nap in particular. I am sooo sorry for your continued pain, doubt, confusion, etc. I don’t apologize for saying, I hate these assholes, I really do, with the exception of MAYBE Larry and Marie’s husband. I only dislike them. 🙂
Like Nap (and Flora) I am soooooo gone!! So done with this mess, so Overrrrrrrrr it!! Not quite physically gone (both of us still living here- yuk – but in the middle of a divorce and a nasty one at that!!!) and all because of a key logger I installed in Jan of this year. Sooooo long, Dum Dum!!
Like Nap and Flora, I still have my “moments” and even bad days and I expect them to continue for a long time but I’m ok with that. I’m feeling the fear and doing it anyway!! And I am so happy and proud to be able to not only SAY that, but mean it as well! My SAH is a narcissistic SOB with a few other personality disorders and SA to boot! I put up with his ass for 17 years and I can’t WAIT to be gone – no matter what I leave behind and the required lifestyle sacrifices it will mean to me! (Many, as I lived a charmed life in many ways, but not the ways that really count). I didn’t mean to make this about ME, but I haven’t posted much and apparently have a few things to say! Perhaps I need to start my own post!?? Lol…
My opinion to your question- DO IT. And anything else you need to do to feel safe. And of course, without his knowledge!! He lost that courtesy when he betrayed you! I will private message you sometime so maybe we could talk off line! I’m intrigued with you and your story and would like to compare notes. Should you ever decide to leave, I would love to help and support in any way. Of course, I will do the same for you if you continue to stay as well! That’s what sisters are for! Just beware of my occasional cynical one liners! I can use Zumba girl as my personal reference! Stay strong and thinking of YOU! XO!!!PS: you should look up my story under “stories” (duh) sometime if you haven’t already…….
Hi SL and Lexie,
SL sounds like you are handling your divorce well. It must be tough being in the same house. You sound good and know what you want and dont want. I relate to everyones stories/posts too and its so helpful when we share with each other.
Lexie, you can spot a SA a mile away. You really arnt sure if your husband is one or not? It sounds like you have a nice friendship relationship. Why do you think you are attracted to socios? Sorry feel like Im asking you ’20 questions’.
Love, Nap
Those are very good questions Nap.
Actually, believe it or not, I cannot spot a SA a mile away or even a millimeter away. Well, maybe now, I can. I know the signs of a “dangerous man.”
And actually, all of that “soul-mate” crapola is a big red flag. Being swept off one’s feet, any kind of lying, or misrepresentation, intensity, feeling like I’ve “known” him all of my life. All of those things and more are signs to RUN.
But me? Do I run? Yes, but in the wrong direction.
The other sign that I get is the feeling that I KNOW that he is no good for me, but that it is IMPOSSIBLE for me to tear myself away.
This has happened twice now.
My husband looks at porn, but don’t ALL men? I don’t know how much or how often. He is not a good sleeper, and he wakes up early. I know that he’s had cyber affairs, but he ALWAYS had “girlfriends”. He had about a half dozen platonic girlfriends when I met him.
Yes. red flag. I wasn’t jealous in the least. It didn’t phase me one iota and the ones who didn’t split when I came into the picture, became my friends, except for one, who ironically, is a sex therapist. hmmm…
Now, none of those women are our friends. We have almost no friends together. We have one woman and her two kids, but I can take her or leave her. She’s married but getting divorced and no, there’s nothing going on between them.
My husband did confess to one physical affair with one of cyber mates.
What kills me, is that all of that started during a time, when he was either not working or had a low paying job and instead of going back to school, or looking for a better paying job, he was having cyber sex and emotional affairs. He has been with this company now, for 3.5 years and has in the last year, been elevated by two levels. Yesterday he found out that his raise which was stalled for 6 months is going to be a paltry $2,500 a year. He makes half of what he made 10 years ago, as a COBOL programmer and in today’s money it is less than half.
We haven’t had sex in at least a decade and even before that it was extremely sporadic. It became repulsive for me to have sex with him. I remember that I used to be relieved when it was over and I couldn’t wait to clean myself up.
Now, with predator, I could’ve taken a bath in him! haha! sorry for the grossness.
I don’t know why I’m attracted to socios. I’ve always loved exceedingly handsome men. Actually, my h is not even my type, at all! I married him because he was so fucking good to me. He was the kindest most loving and generous person I had ever met and it was obvious that he was nuts about me. That was a real turn on and I enjoyed his company so much. He’s almost as funny as I am. LOL We have the exact same sick, dark, dark humor and lots of inside jokes between us.
Hi Lexie,
Thanks for sharing your life with us. If he’s almost as funny
as you I can understand why you enjoy his company so much and he’s good to you, which means alot.It’s interesting one of his friends was a sex therapist? You seem happily married except for the sex part. Having lived for 25 years on rations of sex I look back and think WTF? So unfair.
My h (minus the intimacy anorexia and SA) and I had a good sense of humor too. In fact, that was one of the things I loved about him. I enjoyed his company, working in the yard together (we both love nature), loved shopping together, cooking together, when we had sex it was really good and we both enjoyed it. The problem was I found out about his secret life and for a long time, he had the best of both worlds. When i found out 9 mo ago he was exposed and it was so obvious now his acting out patterns. He could never be ‘real’ about his addiction and I supported him 100% like I did throughout our marriage. His hard core addiction had been going on so long and he didnt really want recovery. He chose to be married to his addiction.
That was the choice he made and now I make the choices I need to make for my life. I choose to live my life and move forward, life is an adventure, there are never any quarentees, just choices, thank goodness.
Love, Nap
Hi everyone!
I’m exhausted, just coming off of a three day Migraine from hell – ask Lexie LOL – but wanted to say, this thread has grabbed my attention for sure. I’ve learned so much more about all of you in this one thread, I think…..
I’m going to meander over to the stories section. Funny because I don’t recall ever seeing it. Silly me!
Thank you guys so much for not saying I’m being hyper vigilant or any of that other BS….so reassuring. Because, to be 100% honest, I wasn’t sure this site was a good fit for me since I’m seemingly the odd ball that’s staying married LMAO but now I see it differently.
Love
SSOh yeah SS, i would guess that about 50% of us are married to our h’s. (not including me). But even so the other 50% still struggle day to day with the reality of it all. But i thinks important to know that an h must work hard to maintain the relationship. And for those who split, their h’s did not work hard. And in the end its best for us to split. But for others with an h sho is willing to work…then i think it is worth the try to see how it goes. But i think what it shows on here is what its really like for both, neither is easy.
Love, FloraI agree, it’s hard to read the struggles but I’d have to be an idiot not to acknowledge they exist, hell, I live it on a daily basis. I’m just lucky/blessed that so far my husband is remaining sober. However, I also know that it isn’t a far stretch to be in that other 50% of divorced women on here either.
The other day he had the balls to say that if we divorced it was because I gave up on him. Ummm, no….it was because you didn’t abide by the boundary agreement you signed…
I’m getting ready to finally type out my story because I realized you guys are probably so confused by me and my background at times! 😉
Love,
SS
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