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Barbra, I’m sure you and Dr. M know best (I’m definitely not a Dr., but I play one on TV 🙂 ) I’m just a bit curious as to the WHY of it all (in general). God knows you’ve been through the wringer, Sister. 🙁
At a high level without writing a book here…we are trying a few options with regards to treatment, my husband is clearly working on issues, there is no imminent threat or danger (and I feel comfortable saying that today, but yes, I know that may sound like a red flag to some), strategy-wise timing isn’t ideal to make changes if I need to be in the intensive for a week in October, and we are assessing my husbands ability to really live a different, more authentic life with me. It may sound pie in the sky but if you read my posts over the past year you will know that I am not naive -I am a realist. So, I am still taking things one day at a time. Now this is not to say that in an ideal world, that Dr. M thinks it s better for me to be with my husband….. It’s just after meeting and working with me, he is recommending that instead of rushing to make a ton of changes that for me, it’s okay to slow things down a bit….I know it may sound odd but in a post that is all I can explain right now….
Okay, I have a question that doesn’t apply to me or my situation regarding dr. Minwalla, and the answer would definitely impact how I viewed dr m as regards treating sa’s . Does dr. M think masturbation is acceptable under any circumstances for sex addicts in recovery? Is that inner circle behavior? I’m not working with my husband, and I wouldn’t ask him that because I don’t care on a relationship level. But I have read that the Carnes people let the sa decide if its okay or not, and they are fine with whatever choice the sa makes. If I were the spouse of an sa trying to work with him in recovery, masturbation would not be okay with me under any circumstances. It would be like giving an alcoholic permission to drink if he felt like he needed to. Does anyone know what dr Minwalla’s views on that are?
Jenny I didn’t come away with any answers regarding if I should stay or go but what I came away with was the power to do what is best for me.
Coutrney I’m not sure what Omar’s views are on masturbation but I doubt he would condone any behaviour that is not acceptable to the spouse.
Xx
I don’t know Courtney. I never really cared about masturbation one way or the other ( I am not talking bout viewing porn and masturbating). I went over that circle shit awhile back with my H because one of the sisters was asking about it and I had no clue. My H said that the circle stuff was not a about sexual acts ( including masturbation) but Minwalla used circles more as a tool for them to recognize their feelings.
Like, “I am angry today because I lost a client at work and normally that would send me to a hooker. How can I deal with my anger in a different way?”
Of course I made up that scenario but it’s like that. I do know that 90 days of “sobriety” was recommended including no masturbation…. I just have no clue how you would ever monitor that.
In all honesty, I figured my H had already F’d hookers so masturbation was the least of my concerns 🙂
And….I can’t get everything out in one post…..I don’t believe in all that “sex addict” /dopamine/ crap anyway. So…..masturbate away.
I don’t think it is like giving an alcoholic a drink. That is just my opinion 🙂
I’m coming up to my four year anniversary of dday on Sept 11. (bad karma day all round, for sure). If I had the chance then of trying Minwalla with my ex, I would have taken it. I don’t know that the outcome would be different, because my ex has been doing this stuff since his early teens and he’s 62 now, and he’s just so far gone into the PD world—BUT at least I would have been heard early on and not further traumatized by his damn stupid 12 step farce and his CSAT fraud.
Our anniversaries are so close Diane. Mine is September 25th 2009 but the trigger dates start from September 4th.
My 4 year anniversary is somewhere in there, too. I can’t even begin to tell you the exact date as it’s all one big blur of devastation.
My view on masturbation does seem kind of silly when you put it like that, Bev:) I guess I’m looking at it more from the viewpoint of how much of me all of what he has done has robbed from me, including my sexuality and sex life. I would want the man in my life to focus his sexual energy on me in a healthy way and masturbation – if I’m ready and willing and don’t have the sex life I want – wouldn’t be okay with me. It’s good to know for partners who are planning to work with their husband’s, Catherine, that you don’t think Dr. M would condone something the partners don’t feel comfortable with.
My thoughts are with all of you four year anniversary women. I wonder if we are ever able to reach a point where we forget our d-day anniversaries? I can’t imagine it, I just passed a year and I’m reliving it all. I think of the terrible irony, my husband didn’t have the time or interest in our wedding anniversaries, and they became barely blips on the radar, and then he dumped this big anti-marraige anniversary on me and it will probably be with me for the rest of my life. Well, fuck that, too, ……..but right now that’s what I’m stuck with.
Courtney — I don’t think your viewpoint is silly. Masturbation is all about fantasy with these men. They very well may be masturbating to memories of the hookers, reliving the experiences.
I’m sure they use a fantasy if they masturbate. I would say it would have to be something the partner was comfortable with IF they intended to work on the marriage. I have not gotten to the point where I want to work on the marriage at all so therefore I don’t care if he masturbates or not. IF I decide to go all in then I will have to sit down and really think about what I am okay with….
In my opinion, these guys should be focused only on relational sex. One of the biggest problems is their inability to attach or to be truly intimate. Masturbation is purely selfish gratification, which reinforces sex as a physical release, high, or escape–not as a way of connecting with someone you love.
I like that March, a very clear explanation. I have to say, I’ve never given it much thought one way or the other. Like Bev said, the fact that my H was out fucking strippers pretty much negated my interest in whether or not he was masturbating. But I can definitely see that if I get to the point of wanting to stay in the marriage in something beyond a sexless, emotional divorce kind of way, then I would take March’s approach. All sexual gratification should come from within our relationship with A LOT of work on the emotional component as opposed to mere physical gratification.
It absolutely makes sense but I am certainly NOT ready to approach a “loving, sexual” relationship with him right now, so maybe he is masturbating. I really don’t know. I’m not even sure I want to know 🙂
I haven’t given it much thought b/c I’m not working on a relationship with my h. but what I have thought in the past is that if masturbating wasn’t a big issue with him pre-D-Day, then I probably wouldn’t have a problem with it but then again, as evasive as these guys are, how would we know if it had been an issue or not? (One woman I met in S-Anon’s husband masturbated so much that when he had to have some unrelated surgery, the morphine didn’t work on him b/c his tolerance was so high from all the endorphins released when he masturbated so frequently! Yuck!)
Oh and what is with so many D-Days in late summer/early September? My one-year D-Day anniversary is coming up on 8/31. Our 14th wedding anniversary is Sept. 4th…fun times!
Hi wonderful sisters. I am now all booked for ISH in October. Since DDay, I have had a difficult time committing to things from one day to the next but from all the encouragement here and with the absolute blessing and encouragement from my therapist, I have now taken the final steps and paid, booked flights and hotel.
Excellent janeybeth. I’m sure it will help you. Xx
I just went back and saw the post from march on masturbation. I totally agree march. Masturbation feeds the monster. In my husbands case he would be masturbating with thoughts of an older woman How could this possibly be helping his intimacy with me? When I caught my husband masturbating (twice) I felt robbed. He wasn’t having sex with me as much as I wanted (probably claiming low libido) so why was he masturbating. The urge was there but not for me.
I agree Catherine. The difference is I don’t give a shit what he does right now. He can masturbate till it falls off. IF I cared then I would be more adamant on my stance about masturbation 🙂
I don’t really want to be sexual with someone that doesn’t choose me. Even if I was ready to renew my wedding vows and start anew and ride off into the sunset, I still would not care about him whacking off. But, to be fair, I don’t buy the whole sex addict thing anyway. I think people masturbate and it’s normal. I am not going to be in charge of his masturbation. YUK 🙂
From what I can understand about my h , it is been the biggest help with the therapist that is now focusing on all the underlying crap. I have seen the most improvement and a sense of “wow, he really does get it”….It’s hard to explain and I know nobody wants to hear it anyway but it’s true.
And, just in case anybody is wondering, I do not know if he is faking it and I do not know how long it might last.
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