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I disagree Bev. If they didn’t think about us they wouldn’t bother to scapegoat us. They know exactly what they are doing and they arrange their manipulation very carefully to achieve their goals. The shrink that assessed my husband told me he had been “getting” me for years. I believe him.I completely believe they set us up. I mean cunning in the usual definition- ” crafty and shrewd, esp in deception; sly cunning as a fox”
I think my STBX thought about me alot when he was doing his “thing”. He blamed me, he used how he thought of me as justification for him getting what he deserved, he manipulated me to further reinforce what he needed from me (was emotionally distant and undependable and then when I complained, he claimed I had issues and problems and took it out on him), he deliberately lied during marriage counseling.
I do think they don’t plan to hurt us because that would mean they would be taking responsibility for their actions in at least a twisted way. I think they don’t think other people’s reactions are their problem.
My STBX always says “I didn’t mean to hurt/upset/anger you.” and then he expects there to be no consequences and I should just shut up about whatever he did. It doesn’t count unless he meant to do it. So in his mind, if he doesn’t stop to consider the consequences to those around him, he is not culpable.
Mine deliberately did things to hurt me, very sadistic. He ‘got off’ on it. Most, esp if their NPD or a sociopath hate woman or hate themselves and project their self hatred on to us. Mine wore a mask and when he was with me he took it off. Very different person at work and in public than when he wasn’t.
NAP, did he rationalize hurting you?
My STBX always claims to have a good motive when he does things. If he hurts my son, he is only being a “good parent”. If he hurts me, it is because he is “setting good boundaries” and I can’t accept it. Or I just need to accept the consequences of my actions or some other crap like that. I think he knows he is going to hurt me/the kids but he just doesn’t care and makes excuses like George Simon says. I think it is about power and control. But I do think in his mind, he does not allow himself to believe he is trying to hurt us. I don’t know if that is denial or what. But if we are hurt, it is our own fault/problem in his mind.
Did your ex admit trying to hurt you? Did he have that kind of awareness?
Teri,
Good question. I don’t think he has a lot of self awareness and lives out of his emotions. I do know he would ‘forget’ my birthday, have a hooker set up on every one of our family vacations, ‘forget’ to invite me to work functions when spouses were invited and come home and tells all about it. I do know when I was in the hospital twice (once for a car accident and once for emergency gb surgery he never came to see me and I went to the operating room alone and took taxis home from the hospital, he left me once in a gas station 4 hrs from home. A stranger offered me a ride after I waited for him to return for 3 hrs. This is just a small sample. He never ever apologized for anything. Never gave and excuses. Just smirked and left the room.I believe Greg was punishing me for the sins of of his bio and adopted mothers. I think he has a deep hatred and fear of women because he was “given away.” His words. I feel he resents the relationships I have with my own children and resents them for having me around. He sees being abandoned at birth as the ultimate hardship. No one has it as hard as he does.
I think that is exactly right. We had a therapist tell us that my h resented me for being a good mother because his mother sucked. I paraphrased. He was in essence jealous of his own children….
This why I have the problem with the “its not personal” thing. Mine made it personal. I knew that…when I found out he used my bed, my toiletries…even my vibrator. If that is not deliberate and personal I really do not know what is. No one will ever convince me it was all incidental. Perhaps in early days it was incidental but by Asia…he knew exactly what he was doing and he made it as personal as possible, without coming right out and telling me. Karen xx
Teri – to your point about denial. Dr. Simon says that in the true definition of denial, this occurs very rarely. As an example, it’s when someone’s spouse is clearly dying and they are denying that will happen. They eventually, when they are emotionally ready, come out of their denial and accept their loved one is dying. Disturbed characters on the other hand, are not in denial. They know exactly what they are doing. They just don’t think they need to play by the same rules. I think one of the reasons this resonates with me is b/c I’ve had such a hard time understanding how my H could do these things for years and not realize that this would hurt me when I found out? Knowing that he was fully aware that what he was doing was hurtful, often illegal, but he didn’t think he’d get caught or that he could talk his way out of it (which essentially is what he’s done), this just makes so much more sense to me.
When I say “they are in denial” ,I don’t mean that they don’t know what they are doing or that they don’t know it’s wrong……I mean they do not think they have a problem. It’s somehow “okay” for them. They justify it in their own minds.
I think that is what you are saying FC???
Mine always had a prostitute on his birthday and I would be home making his cake and birthday dinner or planned a party and guess who was always late (like an hour). Yeah, it’s pretty fucking personal. He’d come in so happy and surprised, now I know why the MF………….I’d like to rub off his other nipple.
Oh these MFs know they have a problem and they LOVE it. They love it more than anything and will do ANYTHING to get it. Sex with their wife is like ‘no sex’ so off they go again and again and again. You can’t stop these dogs from hunting because they ain’t going to lose their ‘sex life’.
Yes Karen, that is pretty fucking personal. And disgusting. That horrifying act just moved yours up to the top of my monster list. Move over dr. e., you’ve got company.
I honestly just don’t know what to make of my H. I read through Dr. Simon’s disturbed character warning signs and he really didn’t fit any of them. Which is good for me. He’s adopted and has a horror of an adopted mother but claims that those facts have had absolutely no impact on him. I’ve never gotten the sense that he resents our children or is jealous of them. He has never treated me badly in the way Nap described her ex treating her or Lisa’s STBX treats her. So what am I left with, he’s just an uber selfish asshole? Maybe so. I guess that’s part of why I’m going forward with the disclosure, etc. I want to hear from my H’s therapist what he thinks is going on with him; if there’s some underlying PD that I have missed.
Bev and March – that is just like my h. He spoke with such venom toward me on Monday – it felt like hatred. That he was never number one, that the kids got all of my attention, that he was nothing more than an ATM machine for the family. I was blown away, but after 2 private sessions with Dr. Minwalla he was able to see that he was projecting his anger for his mother on to me and the kids. He was angry for the little boy he was, whose mother tried to commit suicide multiple times (he found her 3 times) but was not at home when she was finally successful. He was 15 when she died and he turned to sex to feel better. That was the start. He is jealous of our kids and the relationship I have with them because he never had that with his mom. He hates her for not loving him enough to stay and he hates himself for not saving her that last time. Is this an excuse for SA and ruining our marriage – absolutely not, but Dr. Minwalla helped us to both see how it got started and gave him some hope that the rest of his life did not have to be this way. These men really are so damaged. Minwalla also completely validated me when I said that as much as I recognize his damage, I do not think I want to give any more of my life to this. I am willing to give 6 months to see some effort toward recovery but like you Bev – even if he does everything right – it may not be enough for me because of the damage he has done to me.
Yeah, Bev, that is what I’m saying.
Daisy – I totally get what you are saying. My H. is very much like yours – he doesn’t actually fit the list of disturbed character signs yet some of the examples I’ve read about such as a husband cheating on his wife and responding in a certain way fit him to a tee. So while he may or may not be a true “disordered character”, he does know how to use manipulation tactics to his full advantage. In a weird way the situations with our H’s are almost worse b/c we’re left with more hope and I’m at a stage right now where hope is a dangerous thing. But if that isn’t for you then I think you do have reason to hope that he could change. I know you all are living seperately but I’m not sure I know what he is doing to recover? Is he going to therapy? A 12-step program?
Nap, your ex sounds like a sadistic asshole. I’m even more glad for you that you divorced that fucker!
Daisy, what you said about him having a terrible mom but claiming it has no impact totally resonates with me. STBX’s parents are controlling, narcissistic aholes, and he claims he had a perfect childhood, no family of origin issues at all.
Well, I call bullshit on that. You don’t grow up with disordered parents without it having an impact on you. And if you are addicted or personality disordered or whatever, clearly you have some coping problems. I think that not being able to self-analyze and learn from your past is not at all uncommon with personality disorders, if I am remembering all the crap I have read correctly.
It does not add up that they don’t have family of origin issues. Even people with NORMAL parents have family of origin issues.
FC, my H goes to therapy once a week with his CSAT but no group even though I know this CSAT does groups. I think maybe he will start one of the groups later in the process? His CSAT calls it a “freedom group” to deal with freeing themselves from compulsive sexuality so maybe my H isn’t far enough along? IDK. I don’t know if I have hope right now or not. A lot depends on what I hear in the disclosure. A lot depends on what course treatment takes post discovery. The sexual component and by that I mean my ability to have sex with my H or anyone else ever again is going to take A WHOLE LOT of work!
Teri, my H knows his mother is a horror. He knows his childhood was FAR from perfect. He just doesn’t think that those facts had anything to do with why he compulsively used porn and sex. I do agree with you about the self analyzing part. He sucks at that. Whenever I talk about how something from my past has impacted me, he tells me I dwell in the past too much. He’s big on compartmentalizing and I guess his past is all shoved down into one big ol’ compartment.
i hear you daisy. that was the main sign for me. just can’t imagine ever having sex with DW ever again… so hard isn’t it?
is your disclosure planned? do you guys have a date set?
Trish, this rang so strong and true to me: “…as much as I recognize his damage, I do not think I want to give any more of my life to this.” I feel that way, too.
So Daisy, why does he think he did it then?
I just hope when I have sex with ANYBODY, I can get those damn orgy pictures out of my head.
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