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Teri, if he has a clue he hasn’t shared it with me yet. Have I mentioned that communication is not one of his strong suits? That is another thing that must be worked on post disclosure. He does, at least, admit he has problems in that area. 🙂
If I had to guess, I’d say he thinks it was because he is an insecure asshole seeking validation.
What are you hoping or fearing to hear in disclosure daisy? Is there something you would hear that would make you walk away?
And yes, mine was a monster and completely shitting in his own nest.
I don’t know Karen. I wouldn’t say I have any hopes – I already know he’s had sex, I suspect he’s been with hookers so that wouldn’t be a surprise. Contact with children would shock me and be a complete and total deal breaker. He claims that all this shit is fairly recent, within the last 5 or 6 years. I am mentally preparing myself that it has gone on much longer, perhaps as long as we’ve been together (30 years). I don’t know if that will be a deal breaker or not. I just don’t know. I think I would walk away if he was with someone I know but again I won’t know until I’m confronted by those facts. I am definitely a worst-case-scenario kind of person so I’ve been imagining the worst things I can dream up, hoping that the act of imagining them will keep them from coming true. Wishful thinking? Probably.
Daisy, just one word of advice…have a poly after the disclosure. All those awfulthpughts in your head wil not go away withoutone. he knows that sex with a friend of yours would be a deal breaker ( probably) and he will NOT tell it if he has done it. I found every shitty thing mine did and I still will get a poly if I stay in this marriage ( with any intention of repairing or caring).
Once you have the disclosure, a poly will stop the questions/doubts and you can focus on how you really feel about the whole mess…
Oh, I’m definitely getting the poly Bev! No question about it. I don’t know about ongoing polys but right after disclosure? Absolutely!!
Dear Daisy,
I have just been catching up on the disclosure thread. WOW. You will think I am completely twisted but I prefer him using my vibrator to photos of bubble baths and vacation photos and written descriptions of fantasies. I think we all become accustomed to out own abuse and then are newly horrified reading about someone else’s? God, how you must have hurt Daisy. 🙁 I hate think think of you finding those things. 🙁
There was one thing in your list of disclosure questions that sort of surprised me. You didn’t really ask anything about his feelings for you when all this was going on? I thought you might have wanted to know if he talked about leaving you for any of these creatures or asked him if he felt he loved you while he was out seeking other women. You know, questions related to his feelings for you during the marriage. I think I would ask my husband if he was plotting to leave me during all this carry on in Asia. I think I would ask how he really felt about me getting cancer. You know…things realted to our relationship, as well as getting the extent of the sexual activity. Maybe you cannot do that during a polygraph, though seems to me the question ” Were you ever committed to me and when?” is fairly straight forward. I just thought you would be more curious about his feelings and thoughts about you? Incidently, I know my husband was never committed to me because it was the first sentence in the disclosure he was working on with a shrink here in Singapore. Explains a lot. Asshole. I wish to God he could have decided to marry someone else and not be committed to them. Karen xxWow. Karen, I feel like I just got a wake up call with a two by four up the side of my head! I didn’t ask a single question about emotions, did I?? What is up with that? It never even occurred to me. Why? I am going to have to think about this for quite a while. Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I think the short answer is, because it seems impossible to me that he could do all this shit and really love me. So why ask the question. I know he will say he loves me. He tells me that every single day. But really, how can I believe that now?
I want to give this some thought. I want to talk to my therapist about it too (Tuesday seems a long way off). I think I need to amend my list to add these questions because they are important to my journey. In many ways, I think asking them will strip the mask off my H faster than the sex ones would.
Thank you Karen. Isn’t it funny how other people can see clearly things that we are blind to ourselves?
Love,
DaisyIDK girls, i’m feeling some caution about this. because the emotional side of this is so so so screwed up for these guys. i’m pretty sure DW would say something like ‘i always loved you’ ‘i love you in the deepest sense of the word’ he honestly thinks it’s separate. or he had so much misplaced anger, that he hated me. not that i think he would admit that.
i guess it might depend upon how much denial the guys have, but i think they pretty much have to shut down their emotions about EVERYTHING to be able to do this stuff, including their feelings about themselves, never mind us.
IMHO, you might both be asking for a trip into the swamp with this one, especially early into recovery…
maybe this is just my own shit, but i would be very leary of addressing any emotions, at least until your guys get to a place like bev’s h, or penny’s, where they have started to face some of their emotions on their own. maybe not even then.
hope i’m not speaking out of place here…
I agree that the emotional piece of the puzzle is very important but I tend to agree with Lisa that formal disclosure is not the time or place ( for your benefit not his).
If you will re read Trish’s post about Minwalla likening her H to a 4 year old with his temper tantrums and anger then maybe it will make more sense. Maybe your H didn’t throw tantrums or get angry but he was the proverbial kid in the candy store….
I don’t hold with the fact that these grown men are little boys…gag me…I do however believe that they are emotionally stunted. My 15 year old went off to school mad as hell at me this morning because SHE couldn’t find her clothes ( they were hanging in the closet), SHE decided at the last minute to put on tights ( after I told her first thing to do so as it was cold outside), SHE didn’t pack her yoga pants ( after I reminded her 5 times)……so, she was running late and aggravated and mad at me. I am really not about to take that seriously. She is 15, If I had her hooked to a polygraph, she would say with honesty that she loved me. She might also answer ( honest on the poly) that this morning she hated me and it was all my fault.
I think it takes a long time for these guys to grasp what they were thinking emotionally while they were buying their girlfriend lingerie…..
I feel like it was the same thing I was thinking when I used to dream about marrying my crush from 8th grade and we would live next door to all my friends who would marry all his friends and we would all have the same amount of kids at the same time and my mom would come over and do our laundry 🙂
It is funny March but the thing is that I truly believed it at the time. I really did. It was honest. I dreamed it all as I doodled my new married name on my notebook while I was supposed to be listening to the lecture on Life in Ancient Persia ( or whatever they were trying to teach me in 8th grade). Nothing could be as all encompassing and wonderful as seeing BB + MB = Love 4 ever…..
🙂Bev, when my daughter was 15 and on a trip abroad, she called me from Paris and was mad as hell at me because I couldn’t tell her where she was or how she and her group could find where their bus was parked. 🙂
I did ask my H after the affair with Barbara came to light if he had thought of leaving me for her and of course he denied it but I think Bev has it right; he probably was engaging in some fantastical thinking about how perfect his life would be with his little sex kitten and absolutely not thinking about the actual reality of life as the third husband of dumb ass former stripper with a kid of her own and a mountain of debt. I think I popped his fantasy bubble when I pointed out that if he left me, his horror of a mom went with him and the new wife, not with me. 🙂
There’s a lot to think about here. Lisa’s points are very valid. I’m still pondering…
Mine bought lingerie and flowers for his favorite video stripper. But when he met her in person..twice.. apparently nothing physical happened between them at all. At least, according to his disclosure statement that he was willing to do a polygraph about. So I think it’s like Bev said, they’re in 8th grade pretend-land. I just realized i’m sitting here smoking in the garage in the pre-dawn, bundled up in a wool scarf and talking about ‘favorite video strippers.’ It just don’t get any better than this. xoxo
Oh Annie…I love you so very much. You just made me belly laugh. ..
When I was on my smoking in the garage phase, I went to Lowe’s and bought me a space heater 🙂
I tried to have a smoking phase. It didn’t go well. It made the inside of my mouth feel like an ashtray. Bleh. But Aunti Annie and Miss Bev made me laugh. Good visuals ladies! Love you. 🙂
Be glad, Daisy. Very glad. You don’t want to end up like me. I think I might have early stage emphysema. My goal is to find a doc who deals with people who are phobic of docs, if such a thing exists. Who will just do one thing if I request it, like listen to my lungs. And I’ll rip the head off any nurse who tries to make me stand on a scale. 🙂
Bev, it sounds like your smoking days are in the past? (I hope so!) And I actually had priced space heaters on Amazon, but figured I’d end up burning the garage down. Though from the looks of this garage that might not be a bad thing. xoxoDear Daisy, I still maintain you should think about this and also talk to your therapist about it. The fact that you don’t even ask may be saying a whole lot more about you then it does about him? It doesn’t matter a rat’s ass what he thought about you emotionally if you are going to live with him in a marriage of convenience. BUT, if you are trying for a real relationship, then how he responds to emotional questions may be the real deal breaker for you….and not if he fucked one of your friends? He has been in therapy, completely undisturbed for a good while. I think he knows those answers. If it were me…I would ask. And when it is me…that is precisely the road I will be barrelling down. Karen xxx
Annie Girl, you do make me laugh out loud. Your husband must miss that killer wit of yours.It is worth more than youth, thin thighs or even money. xx
The thing is while they were doing all this crap they were not thinking about us. They were insane. One of the many books I read discussed something called ‘limerence’. It is the state one is in at the beginning of a romantic relationship. It is the time when one can’t get enough of that person and thoughts about that person are all consuming. You don’t see any of their faults or failings. My husband didn’t look to the future and ask himself how he was going to bring this hooker home to mummy? Basically the chemicals floating around in the brain during this time would have you classified as clinically insane. It is like being on speed.
My husband wasn’t thinking about me when he was in his ‘relationship’ with the hooker. There was no time for him to ponder if he loved me or not or where I fitted into all of this. His head was completely filled with thoughts of her. A sanitised ‘romantic’ view of her. He was so insane that he would call her constantly, like every 5 minutes and when he couldn’t reached her he knew she was servicing one of her customers. Wouldn’t this wake you up? No you just keep calling because she’s going to be finished sometime soon and then you can talk to her some more. He wasn’t even thinking about the future because he was so wound up by the present.
He is well aware of the insanity of it now and shakes his head at himself but back then?????Cat, I don’t subscribe to your theory on ‘limerence’ or ‘temporary insanity’ causing these jackasses to do the things they do, but say for the sake of argument it’s true. If so, what’s to prevent this ‘madness’ from overtaking your husband again in the future… Do you truly believe your husband is/was ‘powerless’ in all of this? I sure as hell don’t.
I’m still pondering Karen. Mostly I am pondering why I didn’t think to ask those questions. Then I will think about IF I should ask those questions. I do want to know the answers, it’s more a matter of whether they should be asked in the disclosure or afterward – whatever “afterward” is going to look like.
Catherine, I agree with Liza. I can’t subscribe to the insane theory. I do get the “limerence” or crazy in love part. I mean, I vaguely remember the early days of a romance when the other person is all you can think of but still… even in the throes of love fever, even as a teenager in love when my brain wasn’t fully developed, I never committed morally bankrupt acts that hurt my family because I was crazy in love. That smacks of another justification for their behavior and I am not willing to give my H a temporary insanity hall pass.
Thin thighs must be on the top ten list 🙂
I have never had thin thighs….I have always been normal weight but never thin thighs…sigh.
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