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I’m not justifying the behaviour at all. I also don’t believe they are in truly in love. It just explains why we are not in their headspace. It is all too consuming. All I’m saying is that if Daisy wants to ask what he was feeling about her at the time he was playing up with Miss Tank Top expect to hear that he wasn’t thinking about her at all. There was not enough room in his head to be thinking about Miss Tank top as well as Daisy. So that I’m afraid is insanity. They are all freaking mad bastards anyway. What is sane about screwing filthy whore after filthy whore while you have a lovely wife at home who adores you?
Yes and they could all do it again including my husband. And if I divorced my husband and I became involved with someone else what’s to stop him doing it? It doesn’t seem to matter that you like sex, you keep yourself in shape, you are a good wife, your home is nice, you dress well and you embrace his family and friends and you help him in his business when it becomes to much for him. A woman can be as perfect as anyone can be but they could still prefer some dirty, filthy, diseased ugly old whore.
The whole world in fucked as far as I’m concerned.I am laughing my ass off. The whole world is fucked…It is not funny but it is….
We are having a conversation about what the fuck was going thru daisy’s husband’s mind when he was screwing little miss tank top. Yes, the world is fucked.
NOTHING is going thru their minds. That is what….NOTHING. Their stupid ego and their dick. That is it. Nothing else.
I’m sorry Cat, your post is sad and real and I am laughing because I don’t know what else to do. I hope you understand. If not, please accept my apology.
You know what my thought was when I read the “cute little tank top” line? “I wear tank tops to bed too you Mother Fucker and all you do is complain because you think I should sleep naked even though the kids might get sick in the night and come in to get me. ASSHOLE.”
Yes, they always have double standards don’t they, even for themselves. I always felt I could never get it right (before I knew the truth of his secret life) just had trouble clicking with the MF all the time. It was the strangest feeling. Gosh, I just don’t miss all that bull shit and can’t believe I tolerated it for so long. I’m not going to beat myself up though, I just want to be free of cra cra people. I know I’m probably one myself but I’d never hurt another person like that. I couldn’t have done what my Xh did for 25 yrs EVER, not even for one day.
And I’m sorry Daisy I don’t mean to be rude guessing what was in or not in your husbands head. I just wanted to say that if you add to your list of disclosure questions questions that relate to what he was thinking about you at the time he was screwing whoever you probably won’t get a definitive answer.
I know my husband wasn’t thinking about me. He wasn’t pondering if he still loved me or what might happen if I found out. He gave me not one second of thought other than what I might be doing and how he might get away with whatever he was doing. Well that was so fucking easy too.
I feel like shit at the moment. I feel sorry for myself I feel sorry for all you girls I feel sorry for the children and I feel sorry for all the girls out there who are going to have their world as they know it unravel.
I think I might leave all the SA crap for a few days because I can tell it is doing my head in because I’m swearing so much and I’m just too bitter and angry.
Will check in in a few days to see how you are all going. xox Love to you all. Cyou know, maybe it’s because i’m done. i just don’t want to know what he was thinking. there is no way i can wrap my head around it. no way.
if DW was a less damaged man, i would imagine, my only hope would be for him to live like a regular human being for a few years, start to get the wiring in his brain on more normal paths. then i might want to know what he is thinking.
but what was he thinking when he had sex with many prostitutes and then didn’t get tested for STDS until i caught him a year later? what was he thinking when the prostitute threatened to call her pimp? when one of him scolded him because he had a baby car seat in the back (i like that prostitute, brave girl). what was he thinking when he didn’t use a condom? when he masturbated until he bled?
fuck no. i don’t want to know. he was thinking like an ass. he was thinking like a monkey, a fucking neanderthal. he WASN”T thinking. and if he thought about me, he though – this isn’t hurting her, she’ll never know, this has nothing to do with her, she deserves this, she won’t have sex with me so i’ll get it here, i hate her.
probably shit like that. these guys are sick sick sick. and until they live a life of integrity, they have damaged themselves so much, that their thoughts are polluted, dangerous. hurtful.
i really think they are nutters, and asking what they were thinking when they were doing heinous things is just asking for heartbreak. even wondering about it is a waste of time IMO.
i think it may be possible for them to become more sane. but i wouldn’t ask them their thoughts until they get there.
of course, i’m walking away, so that says what i think about what he thinks… daisy, cat, i just don’t want you to get hurt anymore. xo
Daisy, my sah’s first marriage ended because of his Ashley Madison affair. It was hot and passionate and he describes it as being totally “in to” her until it all crashed down… But even then he was still passionate about the relationship. My point is that to hear his description is what any partner would want to hear her husband say about her. And yet, even then, he was still seeing hookers. In the throes of this “great” relationship, he still paid prostitutes and got massages. Yes, I don’t think they love us in the way we understand love (and the generally agreed upon worldwide definition of it). I don’t think they can even comprehend this kind of love and caring for another person. That doesn’t mean not to ask, because maybe he needs to hear and answer such a question, but it does adjust how much weight you give the answer.
Lisa, I totally get what you wrote. For me this isn’t love. You don’t do this crap to people you love and care about. The sad truth is most of us are used as their ‘cover’ for their deviant lifestyle. Without a cover they are straight out liars, cheaters, and perverts. I mean, they know how to pick us don’t they? They pick very responsible, conscienous, smart, attractive woman who will pick up the slack for them (before we know) while they are slime balling around or playing with their dick til it hurts or both. A few of these men might truly be sincere about their recovery however many are not. They married us under false pretenses. They are frauds.
lisa, I’m with you. I couldn’t care less what dr. evil was thinking. That would be a waste of my energy. I don’t think he ever loved me as the rest of the world knows about love, and I do not think he is capable of love. He is a selfish, narcissistic prick, even with his own children.
I just have to watch how he treats his own kids to see how fucked up he is. If I didn’t “get” it and second guessed myself when he was a manipulative ass with me, I absolutely do get it when I see how he treats them.
Catherine, sometimes you do need to take a break from this stuff. It’s hard for real people to spend too much time in the swamp. I am sorry you are finding yourself in a bad place at the moment. That’s the price of still having a heart and a soul.
I certainly understand why those of you who are getting out of the marriage wouldn’t invest a nanosecond’s worth of energy into what was going on in your STBX’s mind. I wouldn’t either. And I really don’t need or want to know what was going on in his mind when he was fucking (fill in the blank). My questions would be more along the line of: Did you consider yourself to be in love with XXX? Did you consider leaving the marriage to be with XXX? I can’t even think of any others right now. And I would be asking them, if I ask them, more from the perspective of having him confront what his emotions were at the time and less from a personal need to know. I am very sure in my own mind that he was contemplating leaving me for Barbara (Ms. Tank Top). Would that have REALLY happened? No. Was he thinking about it? Fantasizing about what a wonderful life they would have if I was out of the picture? Absolutely. He needs to look at that fact squarely in the face and live with it. Because I’ve been living with it since 2007 and I should not be alone.
Daisy, you do what you need to do. But I have found that doing something because I think HE needs to (see the consequences, face reality, fix himself, whatever), I am met with frustration. So just be prepared to not get the response from him that you are looking for.
And, honestly, which is worse- him wanting to leave you for a stripper or him wanting to come home and have sex with you after he has had sex with the stripper? For me, either one of those sucks.
I understand wanting to know. But I think it is torture. Whatever he says, you are going to have that in your brain forever. It is a no-win situation, really, for us. We need to know the truth so we can know what to do. But once we know the truth, it can be so painful and damaging that it makes it harder to move on and be healthy.
I probably worded my post wrong. I wasn’t suggesting you ask what he was thinking while he was banging them. I was thinking more along the lines of what his plans were for you….when he was involved with these different women. Was he going to leave you, did he feel you deserved to be treated that way, was he just going to keep looking for affair partners and keep you in the dark? And this man of few words…how is it he became so damn poetic when writing to his stripper? You are damn right I would want to know those kinds of things before I considered letting him come back into a marriage with me. Of course, the way I feel most of the time, I could also say who cares what he thought or felt or planned. Just fucking divorce the cheating asshole and get it over with.So I am not much help…. 🙁 Karen xx
Karen, you didn’t word your post wrong. I totally got what you were saying. I still think it’s interesting from a what-is-going-on-in-MY-psyche sort of way that I never thought to ask those questions myself. You are a great help to me, you always are – even if I don’t necessarily want to hear and/or disagree with what you’re saying. Your insight is always valuable (even if its wrong). 🙂
Teri, I’ve so rarely gotten the kind of response I want from him, that it doesn’t really phase me much anymore. I guess the benefit of doing it during the disclosure is that his therapist will make him confront my question whether he wants to or not. His therapist told me I could ask anything and it would be answered. Of course, he also warned me to be careful what you ask for because you need to be sure you really want to know the answer (ie, penthouse forum details). After the first affair (Ms. Tank Top) came to light back in 2008/2009 I wrote him a long letter telling him how I felt about everything that had happened, how the porn and the affair had shredded my self confidence sexually, etc. He was going to “work on a response”. Never happened. I kept a copy of my letter and I get it out and read it sometimes when I need to remember how badly this has damaged me and how carelessly he has treated my feelings over the course of this SA shit.
Oh my gosh, Daisy! I agree with Lisa, that the questions aren’t relevant unless they are healthy and the marriage is on track, BUT I didn’t know anything about anything when d-day happened and those were my first and most important questions to him. ( again with the lists:)
1. Did you love her? “No, it just felt like a junior high infatuation.” ( I didn’t believe him).
2.Did you plan a life with her? “not really, I did look check housing in her city and mine, but not seriously”
( I didn’t believe him.)
3. Did you think about divorcing me? “no, of course not, but well, we were having trouble anyway” ( I translated that to, yes, but I wouldn’t want to be seen as the bad guy, I would want you to do it…) then tell me about the “trouble” we were having and I would have, duh
4. Did you think about starting a family with her? ( the “she” that I knew about then was much younger) “yes, it crossed my mind whether she would want a baby”
5. Did you think about taking me off of your life insurance policy and putting her on it? (I know, where did that question come from/) “well, I’m sure if we were divorced and I were married to her, I would have done that”
6. What were you thinking about me when you were with her?
” I didn’t think about you at all.”
7. Why did you keep it a secret? “because I thought you would argue with me”
8. What did you think I would do if I figured it out? ” honestly, Courtney, this doesn’t have anything to do with you, that was a different life completely, doesn’t have any connection to my life with you and Maddy” ( I know, WTF! I didn’t know anything about sex addiction at the time, but I realized something was seriously wrong here)
9. Did you think of her when you were having sex with me? “no, of course not” ( I didn’t believe him, what were you thinking about then, because it wasn’t me)
10. What was the thing you liked about her/the relationship the most? ” she has a beautiful smile, and it’s nice to be appreciated.” (wow, so sorry I asked that)The list goes on and gets even more ridiculous, I am sorry to say, on my part and his. I couldn’t have NOT asked at that time.Those were the most important questions to me. And when I found out about the other women, I went through some similar versions with them, too, but he was the most “in love”, invested in the last one, I think.
If I had it to do over again, I would want someone to say, NO, don’t go there Courtney, because you’ll be left with the answers and they’re in my head and I don’t want them there, I can’t get them out.
Courtney, I love your lists and I love your commentary for each answer. What he did and said wasn’t funny at all (mother fucker) but your responses now are. We could put all the Sister’s material together into one hell of a stand-up routine! In all seriousness, my response to you and Lisa is that I don’t think any answer he could give me could be worse than the ones I’ve imagined in my head a thousand times. I read his letter to her. I already know that he told her she was beautiful and sexy and fun and has a great body and on and on. All the things I wanted him to say to me but never did. I got “you look nice” on rare occasions. I also sometimes get “smart,” “well read (which means I spend too much money on books),” and “you write very well (he didn’t ask me to proofread the letters to strippers and they were filled with bad grammar and typos).” I totally understand that he was looking for a fantasy girl in her, it’s easy to be perfect when the longest amount of time you spend together is a weekend. And by the time I found out about her, the bloom was already off the rose because she was constantly wanting him to give her advice about her kid and her mom and her finances, etc. That’s not fantasy, that’s real life. He already had one of those. He didn’t want another one. Even if I hadn’t found out, he would have dumped her when she started to get too “real.” Anyway, for me, the answers aren’t that painful, not where I am right now. I guess I feel like if we are going to shine a light into the cesspool, I want to make sure each and every corner is illuminated once and for all. It’s never going to be out of my head anyway. Not one bit of it.
You’re right, Daisy, I just keep thinking after reading and reading on here, that Lisa’s right,too, the answers from a man in the grip of this craziness would be very different from the answers of a man in recovery, and I think maybe that’s why you need to go there? Maybe what you already know is much worse than anything he would or could say to you now, about how he felt then, because he has some healthy months to put everything in perspective.
nap – you are absolutely right: They pick very responsible, conscienous, smart, attractive woman who will pick up the slack for them. more and more i completely and absolutely reject the codependent model. these guys are perps, they search us out.
daisy – this shows incredible insight and how healthy you are: “Even if I hadn’t found out, he would have dumped her when she started to get too “real.” “
courtney, your list just breaks my heart. who does these things? answer – really fucked up wackos. jeez i’m sorry. you are so bright and funny, how could he?
Courtney, what you say is the only way I can see any value in asking those questions- too see if you can gauge something about his recovery.
But damn it, why is is that we are so interested/have to know what they were thinking and they don’t think twice about what we are thinking/feeling? It’s just fucking-a backwards. They should be caring, looking out for us and our feelings if they are in recovery and yes, they should be open and honest , too. But when did you ever hear of one of them really wanting to make amends and do right by us? Why don’t we get a big, long disclosure about how we have been hurt with everyone there to support us and them waiting on the edge of their seats to get that information?
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