Sorry Patsy15–Deception Is NOT Allowed In The Sisterhood

Shoot, I missed the fireworks again!

I had alarm bells going off all over the place with her. She crossed a lot of boundaries for decent communication, in my book. I think Karen was dead on (as usual) and pointed but not unkind- easily could have been clarified when she took it personally, but she went on the warpath instead. And Diane was nothing but her usual wise and wonderful self.

That’s not to say I don’t have empathy for what patsy is going through. She got lots of support and kind words, but she didn’t let it go or settle down.

She was out of control and lashing out. It seemed out of character to me for a woman of her age, by the way, unless there’s something else like a personality disorder? Although I’m no expert on that.

I’m glad she didn’t attack me, is all I can say, because I think I would have been really upset, too. I was having a hard enough time when she attacked Karen, but when she attacked Diane, too? Two of our wisest and most caring sisters? Not okay.

Shit – she took a swing at me too? I read the entire thing but I guess I missed that some how. Shit, shit, shit! 😉
I am not sure what I think about her, but I will absolutely chime in that neither Karen or Diane were anything but their usual smart, empathetic and wise selves. I value you both so very much. Diane – I personally always find that you are a soft place to land – even when you call a spade a spade. Karen – I find you to be incredibly smart and tuned in to what is going on with me when I post. I value both of you and your input very, very much.
I love this group, I love you gals, and I swear I would be sitting in a corner somewhere banging my head against a wall, had I not found this site. You have collectively saved my life and I can never repay you for that. Peace to you all tonight.

This is what she said…sounds like she wasn’t very happy with any of us:

“Yet on everyone’s (especially Trish’s) advice, I forced myself to go–to tell a stranger that my fucking husband is a sex addict, and basically got the co-addict BS combined with a distinct feeling that he himself was a sex addict (they are common here).

Then, I arranged to have a telephone appointment with a trauma style therapist–also at all of your advice, for next week, despite that fact that I can’t afford it!!!!!!!!!!!!!! “

Me either

I don’t think Trish explicitly told anyone to “go tell a stranger” anything. And I know for a fact that every sister is told to seek a therapist for herself. I also know many sisters have finances to worry about.

Shit, I need to re-read too! Dang, what a shit storm.

Please be clear, I am not saying all this was intentional, but that does not make it any less damaging.

I don’t know about the rest of you sisters, but I’m exhausted after all of this. I do agree that she seems to be really hurting, but her personal attacks were triggering for all of us, and especially for Diane and Karen.
Also, I’m personally really triggered by the c-word and how offensive it is to women.
In the end though, I think the comment I made about her being transgender as the reason for her use of the c-word was bitchy of me, and I’m sorry.

Ali – you are a class act – how is that for a ‘c’ word xox Meg

Oh My loving God….what did I unleash? It was my birthday today and I have been out and about and have just really caught up with all of this!!!!! What a shitshow…as my brother in law would say. I don’t really know where to begin…..and I fear it may be too late for me to begin anywhere?

I have lived Patsy’s life…maybe not all the fine details…but the environment, the isolation, the cultural differences and the constant reference to being the butt of joke sabout middle ages expat wives- how we are all old, nagging, fat and spend all our time shopping and of course the CONSTANT comparisons to the local women- NOT local women our age, but local women 20-30 years our junior. Though I don’t know Patsy’s full story…I know, well, the anguish and the futility and the desperation she must feel? Not all men in Asia are sex addicts but many men in Asia have the option to choose between their aging western wife and a new and shiny local model. Many choose the latter…more than you would ever imagine? When i told her, her only hope is to get out of there..I meant it. I didn’t speak lightly, I spoke from what I experienced and witnessed. it is very possible, I superimposed my experience onto her…not likely, but possible. I don’t see any chance for Patsy, if she doesn’t get out of there. There is NO CHANCE for her marriage if she doesn’t get him, out of there. I stand by that presumption.
That being said, she is very new and very fresh to discovery and trying to figure out what to do next. She is caught up in the drama stage and isn’t quite sure who she should blame. She is plagued by images of Chinese vaginas, high pert breasts and pretty much everything she doesn’t view herself to be? And she feels trapped…not by the things she lists (money, jobs, lack of family support) but really by a burning need to police him, contain him and punish him. If you leave, you cannot act out your anguish in any of those particular ways, so the desperation to stay is profound. I actually understand that…with the benefit of hindsight..I don’t agree…but I completely understand it?
I should have come on easier with her. If Nap is reading this she will be nodding her head. She doesn’t like my bull in a China shop approach and sometimes she is right. I tend to get my Irish up, especially when a woman describes her abuse and I respond to that, more than anything else, sometimes forgetting where the woman is in her journey. I blundered here, girls. Bonnie is right and anyone else who thinks I could have been softer…could have just let her vent more…knowing that is all she really wants to do right now. And now, all of this has unfolded while I am away and it seems a great deal of damage has been done when i could have been attempting to calm Patsy down. Her real beef is with me and `i could have diffused it with a heart felt apology and an appeal for her to stay with us…not for me…but for the other sisters who would be much more diplomatic about it all. I do feel rather sick about that. If anyone is in contact with her…tell her this is a BIG group and my voice is only one. Certainly should not be enough to drive someone away from support they may need…may desperately need? If I can reach her (JoAnn?) I will certainly tell her that with no reservations.
I want to finish with this. Some of you trust me and some of you don’t? Some of you know me and some of you don’t? I am a big girl and I can dish it out as well as take it. I HATE bullies so I strive to never be one. I have a soft spot for the vulnerable ones and all of those who find it difficult to speak their truth. As much as I adore Bev and Daisy..I tend to use people like Courtney, Bonnie and Nap, as my yardstick for when I may have been an opinionated jerk and try to adjust myself accordingly.
I will close this up by saying a couple of more things. A warm thank you to all you girls who have such faith in my goodness and wisdom. I do not really have any kind of mean streak, despite my direct approach at times. I would NOT want to participate in beating someone when they are down and if I have to beg and scrape for Patsy to remain with us…I am more than happy to do that, if it is not too late? I do, however have aVERY protective streak. Her comments to me are fair and I can accepet them and even try to adjust them. However, her comments to Diane are a COMPLETELY different matter. Diane is in a category of her own and from what I have seen, pretty much above reproach. She is unfaltering in her love, her fairness and her intuition and I do not put myself in any category even close to her. She is also capable of being wounded in ways, I can no longer be. If she were wrong…I would look at the claim. But I see NO CASE here. No case at all and I am very distressed that she has felt it was necessary

Karen–I love you. And I didnt think you said anything wrong. You came on strong–its a dirty job, but someone has to do it and you are often the brave one. 🙂 I thank you. You helped me.
I also didnt read her words to Diane as being so critical–I think she said that if she were further along she would have read it differently. But due to her state of mind they seemed angry and cruel. I understand that Diane must be hurting now too, because I have certainly seen her deal with more on this site. She has been an anchor for all of us, but from my reading, we rushed to the defense maybe a little too adamantly?
I guess I just think that sometimes an online forum is a difficult place to express yourself. I think patsy may be a transgender person, and that might make her even more sensitive. I dont blame anyone for how things went down. I just think it is sad and that maybe if we look closely we as a group might be able to do better in the future.
Karen–for me you have always been a straight shooter with a heart of gold! Diane is the goddess we all credit her with being. I love you both, and all the sisters here. Im really not a goody too shoes. Or a sap. xoxo!
Oh my god, how could I forget–Happy Birthday Karen! I love you and wish you a year filled with blessings! I hope if I end up in Singapore this summer it will work for us to meet!

Ok, Karen, I get it. Don’t think it’s just you. She was throwing names all over the place.

Was she rejected? I don’t think so. She started blasting everyone and then started accusing us of “groupspeak” and basically dished the whole establishment (except for a few who were ‘appropriately responding’ as she saw it). And then calling down the primary authority over us in a blanket inference that we weren’t behaving up to Johann’s stated expectations.

I think she made that choice herself. Was it out of pain? Maybe. But, why are we supposed to accept that in the name of someone else’s pain? How does that model how to maintain boundaries and step out of the line of fire from these SA’s? Why are we supposed to take the blows that belong to someone else? I told my SJ and I’ll tell everyone here, I’m not a savior. It that’s what you expect start looking elsewhere.

Diane’s pain is no less worthy of respect than a new member’s. Not one of us deserves one more second of trauma and abuse. So what if a new member “only lashes out in pain”. She lashed out, not at just one sister, not just once, and she didn’t stop when people expressed that she might have misunderstoond, either. She kept on slashing. Not okay. Not acceptable.

Yes, this is a support group. And what if it WAS okay to do that? How long would it last? How many people would kill themselves then?