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TAD, just remind him you quit doing all of the thinking for both of you when you kicked him out.
I had to remind my ex of that on occasion. He wasn’t a sa tho, just a lazy ass.
LOL for-now…that about sums him up to a tee too…he’s definitely a lazy ass. So I guess if I figure it out and tell him what to say then he’s off the hook and his world would be all sunshine and rainbows. Oh wait…that’s how it is now! No freaking responsibilities whatsoever except for himself, every other weekend and one night a week.
I have to actually think hard about whether or not my H begged me to not leave him. He’s said stuff like “don’t give up on me” or “don’t you think I’m worth the effort”? WTF? He’s said so much shit, I just can’t remember what all he’s said. And it’s pretty telling that I can’t remember – b/c that means if he did say it, it didn’t make an impact on me! They are so good at talking that it is hard to remember that we need to look at their actions. And their actions need to be meaningful ones. For example, before he moved out, H. started buying me flowers. What woman doesn’t want flowers? But that is an action that isn’t really an action. How much effort or money is it to buy flowers (esp. b/c my H is a cheapskate and buys them at the local grocery store). Or he has written me a few cards but I think, how hard is it to write a fucking card? Again, an action that isn’t really an action.
And, TAD, what you said that your ex said about “well it wouldn’t have helped anyway” – that is so in the SA script. Put the blame back on the partner – I didn’t tell you I went out for a beer with my buddy b/c I figured you’d be mad. No, I don’t give a flying fuck if you went out for beers, I’m mad you lied. And the reason I’m even questioning you about this in the first place is b/c you destroyed any amount of trust I had in you, ass-wipe!
wow this is an old post ~ and nothing has changed. Except when he says “dont give up on me” I stop him and tell him to ask me not to leave him. Beg me to take him back. He looks at me and cannot do it! He will not set himself up for rejection, but will still manipulate me to feel sorry for him. Isn’t that crazy?? But it says so much. He has not changed, and I don’t think he can.
tad – your post is exactly how it is here. It’s so amazing how much these guys are the same. One of our 7 therapists – 8 if you count minwalla, said that I have been doing all the feeling for him all these years. And that is why he clings to me, so I can feel for him?? So I can normalize him? That is not a relationship.
nap – I still picture you making the rounds and greeting the staff, and them making you cookies!Before my H moved out for this “trial” separation (the emphasis on trial is his, not mine), he said something to the effect of, “if you decide you don’t want to make it work, you need to tell me. It’s not fair to lead me on like that”. You got to be fucking kidding me. First of all, what isn’t fair is that you fucked prostitutes for at least 10 of the 13 years of our marriage. It isn’t fair that you put my health at risk by your behavior. You put our financial well-being at risk and quite frankly, you haven’t been there for me as a husband or as a father to our beautiful daughters. And second of all, why the fuck do you want me to tell you that? So you can start working on a replacement wife? It boggles the mind to think that this is supposedly someone who is fighting for his marriage and yet, instead of pulling out all the stops, he’s worried that his poor little ego will get hurt if I “lead him on”.
None of them fight for us, for the marriages, or for the children. They fight to restore the status quo. That is all.
And even that is a sad, half-assed effort.
They live in the imaginary bubble they have created. The fantasy world. Real life just gets in the way.
fc you post made me laugh out loud – because it’s so atrocious. You cant make this shit up!
Fc,
Tell him if you lead him anywhere it will be off of Mt. Everest and you’ll be sure to let him know. These guys are sooo stupid.
~NapMine is begging me, he is telling me he will do anything, he does not want to lose me or his family and has used the term “fight” for our marriage. He tells me whatever I have to say to him, he deserves. He listens to me bitch at him generally 4-5 hours a day (sometimes straight). He is using the word trauma constantly (although his therapist is in the Carnes camp). I’ve asked him to get tested for STDs (he says it’s just porn…we’ll see) – he went two days later. I’ve asked him to take a polygraph test – he scheduled it for May 6th. I’ve asked him for a postnuptial agreement for me to even entertain giving him more time to prove he is in recovery. He has agreed.
When I melted down yesterday and went home from work, he packed up his computer and drove 2 hours home to make sure I was ok. For the first time, I didn’t have to ask or direct to have my needs met. During his times of acting out, he would have NEVER done this. Work always came first, actually his whores on computer screen came first. The truth be known now.
Unfortunately, as of right now…no matter what he says or does makes no difference.
And therein lies the rub, Paulette. We’ve come to expect so little from them over the years and now, when they may be doing some of the right things, it just isn’t enough. For one, it’s not an upward trajectory. My H will say and do some right things but then he’ll say something stupid like the part of me leading him on and it’s like back to square one. I’ve noticed that pretty much anything he does irks me – the flowers irk me, the cards irk me, the nice emails and texts irk me, the helpful “Mr Handy-Man” routine irks me. And I think that is my answer…do I want to spend another lifetime being annoyed at the things a good partner should be doing? Because I’m always thinking – it’s just not enough.
FeelingConflicted – you’re right and that’s why I gave this thing a year, a cutoff date, a timeline, whatever it is – there is an end in sight if I don’t feel differently. I need to know for myself I have made my best effort, I gave it a little time, and then it will just be what it is meant to be. I need to make sure I know (clarity) and nobody can give me that answer but me. The year is not for him, it is for me. As nice as it would be to learn from everyone who has walked in the shoes before me, there are just some things you need to learn the hard way – Sad but true. I have learned a lot from the sisters and am applying what I need to help me get through this. It has been a good resource, but it has also shocked me into reality in a sense.
So sad, the part about learning the hard way. And I know it. I felt the same way, that I needed to know I did all I could. The rub is, we were doing all we could before. We were keeping our vows, raising our children, being good citizens. We were good wives. Then we find out the men we married are monsters, and we think we HAVE TO TRY HARDER. Fuck that.
I understand and agree, our difference in our thought patterns from the SA is what makes us whole and not a “monster”. We will all take away important life lessons and at some point take what has been an absolute nightmare that nobody deserves to help us find the peace and happiness we do deserve.
I have been reading about forgiveness and what I’ve come up with is I may need to forgive him one last time, not for him, but for me. Forgiveness is not reconciliation and that is ok. I am trying to find ways to channel positive energy and it’s a freeking struggle every day. I don’t want to carry this anger and resentment with me the rest of my life. It just isn’t in my best interests. This is a process and not an event.
I often ask the same question: Why isn’t he begging? Why isn’t he on his knees asking for forgiveness, for the marriage?
He actually told me that his moving out, at my request, is something he is doing for me. As if this is his generous “gift” to me.
At the hospital I often assess people for about 45 minutes and then ask them about their expectations. What they ask for, hope for, is very informative. The majority of people ask for permanent pain relief or to be disease-free, none of which are really possible in their cases but quite understandably this is what they want, hope for. Every now and then I meet someone who asks for all kinds of things but pain relief. These people often ask to have their life back, to be who they used to be, to do what they used to be able to do, and so on… but they do not ask to be free of disease! They don’t say take my pain away, they say give me back my old life. This says a lot! In these cases I extend the interview and search for the missing link. Drug-seeking? Addiction potential? Malingering?What these SA men ask of us is important. The things they do not ask for is even more important. We should listen to and hear what is not said.
“The things they do not ask for is even more important. We should listen to and hear what is not said.”
I agree, Zola, this is so critical. These guys are so good at knowing exactly what to say that is can be really hard to decipher – particularly in the moment – what the real meaning is. Often times it’s hours or days later when I think about a conversation we had and put it into perspective and think – wait a sec, did he just say that?
Yes Zola critical! I had dinner with H tonight – just for 2 rs – he does beg for forgiveness – and in less of a pathetic inconsistent way – because our children are adults it makes it easier – I am ready to be wherever I should be whether in our out – doesn’t scare me – a first for sure. Looking forward to the June intensive – that’s enough xo Meg
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